blackdiamondcobra
Purple Belt
Thunderfoot:
I understand completely what you are trying to say. What is your training and backround in these systems?
De Cesaris research is questionable and certainly not scholarly or based on any actually training in the old systems with the old masters.
He has no cross reference or any understanding. its hollow. its confusing. He has no understanding of what is physical education vs what the actual systems are so its damaging to others understanding.
It was called Muay or when the time passed into Muay Thai which would make sense it was called Muay Boran or the ancient way of fighting. So after Muay Thai took hold, the bare knuckle could be called Muay Boran or Muay with a bound fist or any other name along those lines.
The term Muay Boran was then claimed by the physical Education department for their blanket redevelopment of a phys ed program, thus the confusion began and still remains. So it now has a dual meaning: Muay Boran as developed by the phys ed department as a blending of tactics into a program that can safely be taught and promoted in a blanket manner and Muay Boran as a term to describe the old systems of lopburi, chaiya, pra nakorn, lanna, isaan, korat, etc or the old way of fighting. two different things. two different ways of understanding.
When it was just Muay, it would be like Burmese Lethwei an active field of fighitng and bare knuckle or bound fist training, fighitng being the end result. There were authentic regional styles and ways of training as in Lethwei but when it came together in the ring it was a raw fight. So as the systems weathered away, they compiled them in a way to save them in total disreguard or acknowledgement of the old masters and the old systems. They should have co existed but they didnt and only know when its very late in the game are people trying to suddenly revive them in the last few years.
I walked every part of thailand and rescued and translated all the old documents, videotaped all the old masters of muay some of which very people even thais know exist including one master who is approaching 100 in the northeast. I correlated that with actual training in muay boran at the grade school level, high school level and college level with the instructors and with the classes. My knowledge also comes from the actual texts i inherited and the actual documentation of the original systems. This is the three fold research including my training starting in 1992 with the last of the masters across thailand.
My book The Vanishing Flame will clear this mess up once and for all with the programs of phys ed muay boran vs the actual systems side by side and then it will all be clear. Thus far all the writing in the english language is a confusion since the people dont understand who are writing about and havent done the research nor the training nor a combination of both.
I understand completely what you are trying to say. What is your training and backround in these systems?
De Cesaris research is questionable and certainly not scholarly or based on any actually training in the old systems with the old masters.
He has no cross reference or any understanding. its hollow. its confusing. He has no understanding of what is physical education vs what the actual systems are so its damaging to others understanding.
It was called Muay or when the time passed into Muay Thai which would make sense it was called Muay Boran or the ancient way of fighting. So after Muay Thai took hold, the bare knuckle could be called Muay Boran or Muay with a bound fist or any other name along those lines.
The term Muay Boran was then claimed by the physical Education department for their blanket redevelopment of a phys ed program, thus the confusion began and still remains. So it now has a dual meaning: Muay Boran as developed by the phys ed department as a blending of tactics into a program that can safely be taught and promoted in a blanket manner and Muay Boran as a term to describe the old systems of lopburi, chaiya, pra nakorn, lanna, isaan, korat, etc or the old way of fighting. two different things. two different ways of understanding.
When it was just Muay, it would be like Burmese Lethwei an active field of fighitng and bare knuckle or bound fist training, fighitng being the end result. There were authentic regional styles and ways of training as in Lethwei but when it came together in the ring it was a raw fight. So as the systems weathered away, they compiled them in a way to save them in total disreguard or acknowledgement of the old masters and the old systems. They should have co existed but they didnt and only know when its very late in the game are people trying to suddenly revive them in the last few years.
I walked every part of thailand and rescued and translated all the old documents, videotaped all the old masters of muay some of which very people even thais know exist including one master who is approaching 100 in the northeast. I correlated that with actual training in muay boran at the grade school level, high school level and college level with the instructors and with the classes. My knowledge also comes from the actual texts i inherited and the actual documentation of the original systems. This is the three fold research including my training starting in 1992 with the last of the masters across thailand.
My book The Vanishing Flame will clear this mess up once and for all with the programs of phys ed muay boran vs the actual systems side by side and then it will all be clear. Thus far all the writing in the english language is a confusion since the people dont understand who are writing about and havent done the research nor the training nor a combination of both.
