Never thought about it that way. Good point. From that perspective, then that would make you and I old school, because our main focus is to seek out, learn from and follow our biggest kwan seniors, including our kwan jang. And then we go and try to share what our big seniors tell us how they wish things to be. What I find strange is that often times there will be some who get really upset about the things we share which were told to us by our big seniors, saying that they are "old school" or "traditional" and therefore they do not need to listen to what we have to say, that we are wrong, that we are being disrespectful. I don't think they realize that you and I really aren't making any of this up, that this stuff we share isn't from us, but rather from the biggest seniors that we have sought out and learned from. So in reality, the angry people aren't fighting with us, they are really arguing and fighting with the biggest seniors. They are simply trying to kill us, because we are the messengers.
old school/clasic tkd
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Never thought about it that way. Good point. From that perspective, then that would make you and I old school, because our main focus is to seek out, learn from and follow our biggest kwan seniors, including our kwan jang. And then we go and try to share what our big seniors tell us how they wish things to be. What I find strange is that often times there will be some who get really upset about the things we share which were told to us by our big seniors, saying that they are "old school" or "traditional" and therefore they do not need to listen to what we have to say, that we are wrong, that we are being disrespectful. I don't think they realize that you and I really aren't making any of this up, that this stuff we share isn't from us, but rather from the biggest seniors that we have sought out and learned from. So in reality, the angry people aren't fighting with us, they are really arguing and fighting with the biggest seniors. They are simply trying to kill us, because we are the messengers.
mastercole
Master Black Belt
Exactly, once they like the Taekwondo, then you can start teaching them more and more about all parts of Taekwondo. It is a good chance.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Amen to that, although you will notice the "old school" brigade regularly aknowledge the skill and effort required to be a good "sports" guy, but the "sports" people will say the "old school" guys are 'not moving with the times' or 'arent old school at all' or 'being misled by old, bitter grandmasters' etc. It has to work both ways. I think the only negative thing I have ever said regarding sports tkd is that the ruleset is probably not the best for training real self defence, and the wider martial arts community (not just restricted to the official kkw sign up commitee) generally agree on this point. In fact, if Im off the mark by saying this then go to the general section of martial talk and start a thread asking "is olympic style tkd sparring beneficial to real self defence training?", and see what answers you get from the 'wider' MA community.
mastercole
Master Black Belt
I to believe that folks should train how they like. However, if they decide to make public statements about their training or mine that I know is incorrect, I can decide to comment back. Why not?
mastercole
Master Black Belt
A person would have to know something about both, first, to even begin to understand. I know about both, do you?
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
To what degree? I train with wtf guys if thats what you mean. I think you'd be surprised how many of the wing chun, bjj, karate, ninjitsu, muay thai etc guys here actually started out in wtf tkd, so their opinions would be quite valid in my opinion.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Because they are incorrect in your 'opinion'. Believe it or not, your opinion is not gospel. In my opinion, you are incorrect, but my opinion is also not gospel, just an opinion. You and your offsider regulary make remarks about my training and you have no idea about the way I train except for a few snippets Ive discussed here, and without actually seeing one of our classes you are merely making assumptions.
mastercole
Master Black Belt
I did not know any one could start out in WTF Taekwondo, do you mean Kukkiwon Taekwondo or are you telling me you have WTF fighters training at your dojang?
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Sorry kkw was what I meant. We do get a few kkw guys come to our dojang, we got two new ones on tuesday night actually. I was refering in my previous post to friends of mine who do kkw tkd. I train with mates at my house on a saturday morning and I have a couple of kkw friends and from time to time they bring guys from their class along and we all train together and share information. Its always a good session.
mastercole
Master Black Belt
Well, in my humble opinion and of course looking at my background in Taekwondo I am probably not qualified to have an opinion about Taekwondo, from our original discussion its my opinion that you lack the most basic knowledge about Taekwondo, you did not even understand your own Poomsae, but that's cool, maybe I am mistaken and you can fill me in, but again it's just my opinion and surely I could be mistaken. Oh, keep telling me how incorrect my information is, why not, it's got to be a lot of fun!
Markku P
Blue Belt
I pretty much agree with this. My teacher GM Dae JIn Hwang was from Jidokwan ( I think ) and he never spoke about "traditional" Taekwondo. By by the way, does anyone recognize my teacher's name? I think he was well known a long time ago?
/Markku P.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
It is fun, and Im thick skinned and dont take offence to anything anyone posts, its all in good spirit. I am curious though, what did I not understand about my own poomsae? I remeber a converstaion we had regarding poomsae and I remeber not understanding what you were talking about because you were using korean terminology I didnt understand. I later realised the reason I was questioning the poomsae was because we do it differently and so was not understanding your take on it. Something to do with short stances from memory (which our GM removed from the forms).
mastercole
Master Black Belt
Ah.. so it was not WTF guys, I see
My original recommendation was that a person in Taekwondo should experience training and sparring with an elite Taekwondo athlete, for the experience, for the learning. See experience is much better than NON-experience, don't you think? Experience in both, the elite old school style, and elite new school style, would give one a well rounded experience of their martial art, in this case Taekwondo. But hey, I know that sounds crazy.I know it can be a big bad scary thing, so, it's not for everyone, in my humble lack of experience and unqualified, and, possibly mistaken opinion
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
I actually agree that sparring people from different disciplines is a positive thing. For this reason I have sparred muay thai guys, zendokai guys and shotokan guys, its a great learning curve. And for the record, sparring muay thai guys is a big scary thing, almost as scary as zendokai guys, they go really hard. Im glad you are also clarifying that these things are just your opinion.Ah.. so it was not WTF guys, I see
I know it can be a big bad scary thing, so, it's not for everyone, in my humble lack of experience and unqualified, and, possibly mistaken opinion
mastercole
Master Black Belt
I know, I was using that tricky Korean terminology to explain tricky Korean concepts of Korean Poomsae that you practiced for how many years? I mean you are a Korean martial arts (Taekwondo) Black Belt (I forget the degree, sorry). All this, in my humble opinion was maybe .......difficult errrrr something? Not sure, I uhh......errrr., well we never really got to the bottom of that whole thing did we? No need to try again. Might be good to stay on topic.
mastercole
Master Black Belt
Fantastic, certainly no need to discuss on anything Taekwondo with me, seems like you are already in the thick of it. Great job!
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
I think you'll find many tkdists dont use/understand korean terminology. We had a thread about it here once and I was surprised how many people dont use korean language in their dojang.
You know, maybe I'm crazy, but it seems to me that maybe, just maybe, your posts would be better received if you left out the condescension, arrogance and general rudeness. You know, talk TO people instead of AT them or DOWN to them.
Just my opinion...
Sent from my iPhone using TapaTalk.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Thank you. Ive been saing this for ages. I may not agree with people but I always try not to lower myself to sarcasm and condescending remarks. Mastercole obviously takes offence to the fact I said his views are only 'opinions'. Now, Id love to think that because mastercole has many years experience in tkd that what he says is gospel, BUT, my instructor has 42 years experience in tkd, is a black belt in 2 other arts and has trained in various countries all around the world and yet his 'opinions' differ greatly to mastercole's. Im not saying my instructor's opinions are more correct or more accurate, but this proves that all people will have their own take on martial arts based on 'their' experiences. People become condescending when they believe their opinions are gospel and someone dares disagree with them. If you know everything, then why come here, this is a place to learn.
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