old MA mag article?

[CMyers0323]

Thank you!

No problem! It's a pretty cool book I haven't fully read it yet. Just been collecting kicking based books haha. This was the site I got it from. I might get more if their stuff. Besides needing to be translated they seem to have a nice collection of books Bagua Chinese Simplified Bagua

 

[wckf92]

"a step is a kick and a kick is a step"

Well I don't know anything about Bagua...but that saying was something I heard in my earliest days of wing chun training. And it did not have to do so much with 'hidden' kicks in stepping/walking...but more to do with combative mindset.

 

[CMyers0323]

Well I don't know anything about Bagua...but that saying was something I heard in my earliest days of wing chun training. And it did not have to do so much with 'hidden' kicks in stepping/walking...but more to do with combative mindset.

That's interesting! I did more recently find out wing chun had the same concept. I guess from what I've read and been taught they say forward Stepping creates front kicks and such this a book that has that concept written down.

 

[wckf92]

That's interesting! I did more recently find out wing chun had the same concept. I guess from what I've read and been taught they say forward Stepping creates front kicks and such this a book that has that concept written down.

Yeah IMO it has to do with "stepping with a purpose". In other words...in WC there is a saying: rush in upon loss of contact (or other varying ways of saying the same thing). So, if space is suddenly there, through the training methods and numerous drills of wing chun...we eat up that space as fast and as violently as is needed. That would be with a strike from arm distance...or if needed the horse will crash in to eat up the space and may or may not be accompanied by a kick. Of course, this is all my opinion and subject to how one was trained in wing chun.

I do know this much: the leg training of wing chun is quite painful and brutal and as such it is either not taught/passed down or if it is then it is not emphasized because typically students want to focus on the hands and neglect the horse/leg training.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Spent some time referencing my Wing Chun history books. One helpful reference for Wing Chun Crane kicking techniques that don't happen to pop up in Wing Chun's short fist sets are the broader southern Tiger-Crane combo methods, since they share a lot of Crane and Dragon material with Wing Chun (and, the most critical modern proponents of both Tiger Crane and Wing Chun happened to both open up medical shops in Foshan...).

https://northcountykungfu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Fu-Hok.jpg

Basically, the kicks that are "missing" in Wing Chun aren't missing, they're just not transmitted through a lot of modern lineages. The 8 listed in the article above are probably a subset of a larger group practiced in the south. Basic kicks of all different types (or as I like the call them, the "gerk squad") should be part of any kung fu kicking drill list (I have a list like this somewhere with maybe 12 different kicks, which I think include all 8 listed in that old newspaper article based on the description).

The kick on the top left is the famous "Shadowless kick", the Mu Ying Gerk. the two below it are southern White Crane, actual kicks aren't shown, just the setup. The one on the bottom right is the source of the Okinawan Tang-Te Crane kick.

View attachment 28040
View attachment 28041

The upper two are present in our southern style.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

In the canonical Wong Fei Hung lineage, the shadowless kick (from the rabid dog street legend) is like you said, but it's also not just a kick, it's a smash between fist and foot.

I forgot to point out that this image should be viewed right to left, the Crescent Moon Hand and Foot is the setup to the kick (and it's taught straight like you said, like a shovel kick, in the Tiger Crane Paired Fist but very important to consider: pretty much any type of front kick works just as well. Drill 8-12 different front types, push heel, instep, whatever, and there's no reason you can't substitute them. The actual important part is left arm, raised in the right image as the feint that smashes down on the head, while the right leg kicks.

View attachment 28042


Any time. Here's another "fancy" kick setup by southern standards, pretty common right leg side kick from Crane/Dragon/Unicorn stepping transition (depending on who you ask). Again, just one image but there are a few ways I can remember to pull this off, including a teep, a heel push, and even leaping kick and flying knee version.

View attachment 28043

It's unfortunate that so many choose to pick up Wing Chun, but stop there. If I had stopped at Hung Ga Kuen, I would never have picked up the Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist, which is probably one of the most useful techniques I've ever come across. Yet another technique image from the southern Tiger Crane that doesn't come close to describing all the different Crane technique ways the index finger can be used to dig into the opponent. If you have a little brother you you want to torture, this is all the technique you need. Also in Wing Chun somewhere, as well as Japanese art where it's called ippon ken, the "One Fist"

View attachment 28044

The cross step in the above picture gets left behind because of the difficulty in executing it quickly. Get caught in that position and its going to go poorly.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Yeah IMO it has to do with "stepping with a purpose". In other words...in WC there is a saying: rush in upon loss of contact (or other varying ways of saying the same thing). So, if space is suddenly there, through the training methods and numerous drills of wing chun...we eat up that space as fast and as violently as is needed. That would be with a strike from arm distance...or if needed the horse will crash in to eat up the space and may or may not be accompanied by a kick. Of course, this is all my opinion and subject to how one was trained in wing chun.

I do know this much: the leg training of wing chun is quite painful and brutal and as such it is either not taught/passed down or if it is then it is not emphasized because typically students want to focus on the hands and neglect the horse/leg training.

No legs, no punch.

 

[wckf92]

No legs, no punch.

Exactly

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

And there it is, a Wing Chun kick above the waist, on the dummy. And the ankle breaking kick. Neat!

The similarity between the Tan Tui sets and these photos isn't coincidental. I've always suspected Tan Tui is one of those sets that isn't often taught in Wing Chun schools, but really should be, because so many of the southern non-Wing Chun schools do it. Especially given the 24-12-8 thing. But that's just my opinion.

Wow. I’m not a Wing Chun guy, but these are all interesting connections. We do have Tan Tui sets in our system As well

 

[CMyers0323]

Yeah I agree with what your saying. I've been trained similar. Although I never took just wing chun so the leg work was a mix of other styles I'm enjoying more and more the stuff I find. I've seen some other forums talking about more training methods. Personally I believe we should use our whole body so I'm enjoying the more indepth leg training stuff

Yeah IMO it has to do with "stepping with a purpose". In other words...in WC there is a saying: rush in upon loss of contact (or other varying ways of saying the same thing). So, if space is suddenly there, through the training methods and numerous drills of wing chun...we eat up that space as fast and as violently as is needed. That would be with a strike from arm distance...or if needed the horse will crash in to eat up the space and may or may not be accompanied by a kick. Of course, this is all my opinion and subject to how one was trained in wing chun.

I do know this much: the leg training of wing chun is quite painful and brutal and as such it is either not taught/passed down or if it is then it is not emphasized because typically students want to focus on the hands and neglect the horse/leg trainin

 

[CMyers0323]

Anyone have more info on the 8principles? I'm sure there's more to It than explained. I get the idea is a specific body mechanic that like said can be adapted to other kicks. It should help complete the kicks. The pictures are great but without the principles there just normal low front, front, side, and Crescent kicks

 

[wckf92]

Anyone have more info on the 8principles?

Try the advanced search feature...I'm sure we've discussed this sort of thing in the past.

 

[CMyers0323]

Thanks ill check it out. I haven't seen really anything talking about it. I think I could say that's more important than the kicks themselves because I know you can mix and match

Try the advanced search feature...I'm sure we've discussed this sort of thing in the past.

 

[Oily Dragon]

The cross step in the above picture gets left behind because of the difficulty in executing it quickly. Get caught in that position and its going to go poorly.

"Get caught" in any position is going to go poorly.

 

[wckf92]

@Cmyers0323 watch his legs around the 1:05 mark. Part of WC training is to train how to recover from less than ideal situations. This is one example. There are other things happening here, but this may give you an idea of one of the leg concepts.

 

[wckf92]

...same here around 1:40

 

[Callen]

Anyone have more info on the 8principles? I'm sure there's more to It than explained. I get the idea is a specific body mechanic that like said can be adapted to other kicks. It should help complete the kicks. The pictures are great but without the principles there just normal low front, front, side, and Crescent kicks

The idea of emphasizing 8 kicks and 8 separate principles is that it teaches when a kick is combined with a principle, you get a specific action. So for example, when a jing gerk 正踢 (front kick) is combined with huen gerk 圈腳 (circling/arching kick), it creates the Wing Chun Slant Kick. However, just like taan, bong and fuk, kicking concepts are learned and taught through the lens of the entire system. In essence, Wing Chun kicking is as much about the entire system as it is about the actual kick.

IMO, you will eventually arrive at the point where you need to actually learn the Wing Chun system in order to gain useful traction towards truly understanding the kicking aspects. This is mostly due to the fact that the Wing Chun kick is not a stand-alone concept, it is but one part of the whole. Pull it out of the context of the system and it no longer has the same meaning.

 

[CMyers0323]

...same here around 1:40

Yeah definitely I see what your saying here. I enjoy the subtle moves also. It's good there's video of some of this stuff also

 

[CMyers0323]

The idea of emphasizing 8 kicks and 8 separate principles is that it teaches when a kick is combined with a principle, you get a specific action. So for example, when a jing gerk 正踢 (front kick) is combined with huen gerk 圈腳 (circling/arching kick), it creates the Wing Chun Slant Kick. However, just like taan, bong and fuk, kicking concepts are learned and taught through the lens of the entire system. In essence, Wing Chun kicking is as much about the entire system as it is about the actual kick.

IMO, you will eventually arrive at the point where you need to actually learn the Wing Chun system in order to gain useful traction towards truly understanding the kicking aspects. This is mostly due to the fact that the Wing Chun kick is not a stand-alone concept, it is but one part of the whole. Pull it out of the context of the system and it no longer has the same meaning.

Ah yeah I see what your saying. I remember being taught the slant kick and how like you said it was a combination of the two. I've had some years of Wing Chun training I just never came across this concept before atleast not the principles which I find interesting since as said you can basically combine in many ways to have way more than just 8 kicks. I've just been searching well as of now the Wing chun kicking principles in detail. I'm sure most of them are obvious like skipping and most likely circling depending on how broad they can work with that concept. Yeah I totally agree that's why I try to get most of my training in an official class setting. I still do alot of research in my down time just to expand my knowledge. I definitely see what your saying though

 

[CMyers0323]

Any suggestions for traditional Wing Chun leg drills? There's tons of hand drills on the internet but not nearly any much leg stuff