ok, Rousey is the real deal, clearly

Tez3 said:
I'm not sure it's Rousey putting pressure on Cyborg rather than it's Cyborg trying to put pressure on her to put the weight back on and fight her as she would 'need' the fight more. Cyborg does have a point in saying Rousey went down a weight to avoid her which I do actually think she did and frankly who can blame her. It would be sensible. However Rousey will have to up her game whatever she decides to do.
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Rousey's strong at 135. She's dominant.

Look at guys like Frankie Edgar. He fought at 155 for a long time, and while he was competitive, he wasn't dominant. The nature of the game is for people to fight at the absolute lowest weight that they can cut to and still be strong and fit. Rousey is obviously very strong and fit at 135. Now, once she's cleaned out the 135 bracket, then we can begin talking about her stepping up a weight class.

But all of that aside, Cyborg IS on the juice, and it's very likely that a cut to 135 would be very possible were she to STOP taking the juice. Also, Rousey is correct in that she doesn't need the fight. Cyborg is struggling to remain relevant. Rousey is a household name in and out of MMA. Rousey is wearing a championship belt; Cyborg is not.
 
Steve said:
Rousey's strong at 135. She's dominant.

Look at guys like Frankie Edgar. He fought at 155 for a long time, and while he was competitive, he wasn't dominant. The nature of the game is for people to fight at the absolute lowest weight that they can cut to and still be strong and fit. Rousey is obviously very strong and fit at 135. Now, once she's cleaned out the 135 bracket, then we can begin talking about her stepping up a weight class.

But all of that aside, Cyborg IS on the juice, and it's very likely that a cut to 135 would be very possible were she to STOP taking the juice. Also, Rousey is correct in that she doesn't need the fight. Cyborg is struggling to remain relevant. Rousey is a household name in and out of MMA. Rousey is wearing a championship belt; Cyborg is not.
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As I said it's Cyborg that wants the fight more even though she's saying Rousey is irrelevant ( interesting choice of words though lol) and that she doesn't want to fight Rousey.
With weight it's best to be at the top of a weight division rather than the bottom, therefore cutting weight to make the weigh in then putting that weight back on for fight is what is the norm. What's Rousey's walking around weight, her weigh in weight and her fight weight, any idea? am off on nights in a bit so don't have time to look it up.
 
Tez3 said:
As I said it's Cyborg that wants the fight more even though she's saying Rousey is irrelevant ( interesting choice of words though lol) and that she doesn't want to fight Rousey.
With weight it's best to be at the top of a weight division rather than the bottom, therefore cutting weight to make the weigh in then putting that weight back on for fight is what is the norm. What's Rousey's walking around weight, her weigh in weight and her fight weight, any idea? am off on nights in a bit so don't have time to look it up.
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Ah, I think we're saying the same thing. I just couldn't understand because your accent is so thick! ;)

I'll see if I can dig up some information on Rousey's walking around weight and fighting weight. It would be interesting to know how much water she cuts.
 
Steve said:
Ah, I think we're saying the same thing. I just couldn't understand because your accent is so thick! ;)

I'll see if I can dig up some information on Rousey's walking around weight and fighting weight. It would be interesting to know how much water she cuts.
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LOL! Please don't mention water..it's Bank Holiday here and as usual it's raining, still it's keeps the troublemakers indoors, sadly though it's quiet now as all ours are either in Afghan on on their way.
I think the biggest difference I've seen between weigh in weight and fighting weight is over 14lbs, that was on a day before weigh in, most of ours are on the day weigh ins due to people working so there's less difference but a day before can produce some quite big differences.
 
I actually saw that last week. The thing is, she doesn't "claim she is the 'champion.'" She IS the champion. Cyborg is not, after having had her title stripped because of doping.

Also, cutting for judo and cutting for mma are two different things. Judoka have to fight at closer to their natural weight because they would have to cut as often as every other week in order to compete. That would be terribly dangerous. For MMA, however, it's a different thing. Also, if you look at Rousey when she was in the Olympics, she was clearly a bigger, heavier girl then than now. She's in great shape, and at this point, frankly, my take is that Cyborg is the one hiding from Rousey. Every time Cyborg asserts that Rousey cut to 135 to avoid fighting her, I see Cyborg using her weight as an excuse to avoid fighting Rousey.

All of that said, I just hope that we see some new, young, up and coming studettes that will represent a legitimate threat to either of these two. THAT will be good for the sport and good for women's MMA. Two dominant women so far above everyone else will only go so far.
 
Twin Fist said:
cybord ****ing cheated, and should be banned FOR LIFE, for her to say she never lost a fight is retarded
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Reading the comments made by the 'public' under the articles about her it seems she has quite a dedicated following who believe she is still the champion until or if someone actually beats her in the cage, the fact of her taking steroids seems to be ignored by her fans. As far as they are concerned it never happened and the evidence isn't at all obvious to them!
Some comments I did find interesting though is that a lot of people believe that Strikeforce only want one weight category for women, they can't be bothered having different ones. I imagine if this is true there will be pressure on quite a few to meet the weight needed for this category.
 
Cyborg is still a good fighter, maybe even great. She did cheat though, which takes her down many notched in my book. I am not sure she is in a position to demand anything, much less of the champ in a different weight class.

Rousssey up to this point has been a pretty much one trick pony. Granted that one trick is pretty freaking amazing and has won her some important matches. I am interested to know if she has a brouder skill base. Can she hold her own in standup? Will she be able to sit down on her punches for power and anti grappling? What if the arm bar position is never available? I think she has done a wonderful job so far, but I am curious how she will handle an opponent that does not let her get that arm bar. Will she be able to adapt from that point on? I'm looking forward to finding out, but that is going to take an opponent good enough and on the ball enough not to get stopped by that crazy good arm bar.
 
WC_lun said:
Cyborg is still a good fighter, maybe even great. She did cheat though, which takes her down many notched in my book. I am not sure she is in a position to demand anything, much less of the champ in a different weight class.

Rousssey up to this point has been a pretty much one trick pony. Granted that one trick is pretty freaking amazing and has won her some important matches. I am interested to know if she has a brouder skill base. Can she hold her own in standup? Will she be able to sit down on her punches for power and anti grappling? What if the arm bar position is never available? I think she has done a wonderful job so far, but I am curious how she will handle an opponent that does not let her get that arm bar. Will she be able to adapt from that point on? I'm looking forward to finding out, but that is going to take an opponent good enough and on the ball enough not to get stopped by that crazy good arm bar.
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Regarding her stand-up, she's definitely still learning. She leaves herself exposed and will end up getting put down at some point.

As for her grappling, understand that she's not just going for one submission. Even though it's an "armbar," her entry to the submission, the transitions as she moves from one armbar to the next, and the finish, is different just about every match. "Just an armbar" is anything but. It's like saying that Cung Le is a one trick pony because all he's got is a "kick."

Truthfully, the only question I have about Rousey's grappling is her guard. IMO, the biggest difference between BJJ and other styles of grappling is that in most grappling arts, there is an emphasis on working from the top position. Rousey is dominant on the top. She is a beast. But, as with many wrestlers who are unaccustomed to working off their backs, I wonder how much time she spends in training working from guard. If someone like Tate (or Cyborg) could reverse Rousey and establish a dominant, top position, it will be interesting to see how well Rousey handles it.

Also, and this is admittedly nitpicky and petty, but anti-grappling is really just grappling. :)
 
Tez3 said:
And her opponents will be working on not letting her get it so she had better be able to do something else.
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So far, her opponents haven't been able to stop her armbars, at least, not all her setups and chains into them. It looks to me more like she's decided that the armbar will be HER submission, and she's worked on lots of ways to get it. Kind of the master of one thing vs jack of all trades. However, we don't know for sure what the rest of her subs look like since no one has been able to stop the armbar setup and breakdown sequences she uses.

The breakdown on bloody elbow is a great writeup on her tactics and how she was adjusting. It seems like she's got her fight plan mapped out quite a few steps ahead and sticks to it. I think her biggest problem will be someone that can keep her out of the clinch and strike at a distance. I don't know if anyone in WMMA can do that right now though.
 
It occurred to me that judo is one of the only combat sports where a woman can play at a really high level, so it makes sense that someone would dominate coming from the elite levels of that art. The high level college wrestling that a lot of men come from, doesn't really exist for women. Therefore, wouldn't it be interesting if the best high level mma fighters were judoka? Perhaps the only person that can beat a bronze medalists arm bar is a silver or gold medalist?
 
Skpotamus said:
So far, her opponents haven't been able to stop her armbars, at least, not all her setups and chains into them. It looks to me more like she's decided that the armbar will be HER submission, and she's worked on lots of ways to get it. Kind of the master of one thing vs jack of all trades. However, we don't know for sure what the rest of her subs look like since no one has been able to stop the armbar setup and breakdown sequences she uses.

The breakdown on bloody elbow is a great writeup on her tactics and how she was adjusting. It seems like she's got her fight plan mapped out quite a few steps ahead and sticks to it. I think her biggest problem will be someone that can keep her out of the clinch and strike at a distance. I don't know if anyone in WMMA can do that right now though.
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Probably because you are only seeing it as an American sport. If American promotions don't sign up opponents from outside the country you will have only a limited amount of opponents.
Women rank highly in kickboxing as well as Judo
 
Tez3 said:
Probably because you are only seeing it as an American sport. If American promotions don't sign up opponents from outside the country you will have only a limited amount of opponents.
Women rank highly in kickboxing as well as Judo
Click to expand...

That could very well be true. I don't think the US has a very competitive kickboxing sport for women. I wonder if the Dutch ladies could put a hurt on Rousey? :)
 
Tez3 said:
Probably because you are only seeing it as an American sport. If American promotions don't sign up opponents from outside the country you will have only a limited amount of opponents.
Women rank highly in kickboxing as well as Judo
Click to expand...

Well, I've not seen much womens mma from European countries yet. I've seen plenty of Japanese and Americans, and some Brazilians, but not many euro's yet. Would be interesting to see some of them come over and try to compete. Until they do start fighting in the same organization as Rousey, I'll stand by my original statement. :)
 
Skpotamus said:
Well, I've not seen much womens mma from European countries yet. I've seen plenty of Japanese and Americans, and some Brazilians, but not many euro's yet. Would be interesting to see some of them come over and try to compete. Until they do start fighting in the same organization as Rousey, I'll stand by my original statement. :)
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British women have come and fought in the US, not sure how you could have missed them tbh.
 
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