Oh really?

[benkyoka]

(Let's hope this works)


From Hatsumi's Togakure Ryu Ninpo Taijutsu book from 1983:



You can see the name ichimonji no kamae (一文字の構&#12360 on the bottom right.

And a close up:


From Hatsumi's Hiden Ninja Submission from 1981:

and the opposite page which lists it as ichimonji no kamae:


and a close up:


If the links don't work properly I will have to do some resizing.

 

[althaur]

Well, look at that. Seems that maybe Sensei even thinks that the kamae may have different looks depending on the school. Hmmm.

Thnaks for the pics.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

(Let's hope this works)


From Hatsumi's Togakure Ryu Ninpo Taijutsu book from 1983:



You can see the name ichimonji no kamae (一文字の構&#12360 on the bottom right.

And a close up:


From Hatsumi's Hiden Ninja Submission from 1981:

and the opposite page which lists it as ichimonji no kamae:


and a close up:


If the links don't work properly I will have to do some resizing.

Thanks for the input and the pictures Syd.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Truthfully it is sometimes very hard to study this art. (I think everyone knows what I mean) You see there are many teachers and many interpretations of Soke's Budo. This is a strength of a living system and yet a weakness at times as well. Personally I try to not worry too much and just train under competant teachers and improve as much as possible. Obviously it is not all that I do but my experience in other systems has shown me the same thing over and over again. No matter what system you study there will be personal interpretation and movement based on someones unique abilities. Someone who is large may have a slightly different posture in Ichimonji no Kamae than someone who is more athletic or someone that is old may also move differently than someone who is young. I have personally observed Soke do Ichimonji no Kamae a couple of different ways. (at least I think he did as the transition was very quick) Bottom line is that we all train in an moving system and even though some bickering may occur here on line we all know that over a beer and good food we are all on the same path and attempting to learn this particular form of Budo.

 

[DWeidman]

Truthfully it is sometimes very hard to study this art. (I think everyone knows what I mean) ...

True. However ...

WHERE IS MR. E and DEVIL HANZO NOW??????????????

Seems that Richard Hundley MIGHT NOT BE CORRECT?????????????

DEAR GOD, SAY IT ISN'T SO?????? <GASP!>

Syd: Can you check the author of those books: I assume the book is written by SKH or RT's Second-Rate retarded instructor..... RIGHT???

How come neither of these two have come out here and said....

"MMMMMMMM - MY FOOT TASTES GOOD".

Sack it up and eat some crow...

-Daniel

PS. How did heck did RT get banned????!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[DWeidman]

...Bottom line is that we all train in an moving system and even though some bickering may occur here on line we all know that over a beer and good food we are all on the same path and attempting to learn this particular form of Budo.

Actually - bottom line is that the bikering in this thread is from two people who aren't learning this form of Budo at all (or did everyone miss that?)

One of them USED to train in it (and knows more than EVERYONE else in the world).... and the other has FRIENDS who train in it...

Just needed to clarify that...

-Daniel

 

[rutherford]

PS. How did heck did RT get banned????!?!?!?!?!?!?

Actually, out of the whole thread that was the only thing I was wondering too. He and I definitely don't see eye to eye about a few things, but I've got no clue how he upset the MT staff. Maybe he got into an argument with Bob about a MySpace page.

 

[benkyoka]

In a conversation (off-board) with RT, he stated that he was permanently banned for challenging Mr. E.

 

[Mr. E]

and the other has FRIENDS who train in it...

Oh, if you only knew the full story. If you only knew who I consider my friends and my history with them. Then you would know why I am confident in what I say, even now. But the famous Bujinkan reputation of eating its own prevents me from giving them up to you.

I did not come into this thread to embarrass the Bujinkan. But it has been shamed by the actions of a few people. I did not want RT to be banned, I even gave him a chance to explain that he did not want to challenge me, that he really just wanted me to see how they train so I would understand. If he had, he probably would still be here. It still amazes me that people would sign up here and yet not even read the rules. And he is not the only one whose behavior has caused concern.

There has been too much shame brought on the Bujinkan name due to this thread. I am really sorry I helped cause shame to the art of a man I deeply respect. If I could turn back time, I would have listened to my inner voice telling me to stay out rather than get into a flame fest so soon after the last thread was closed.

:asian:

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Brian R. VanCise
-MartialTalk Super Moderator-

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

It is not MT policy to go into the specifics of any particular ban, however it was from actions here, and it was by decision of the MT Steering Board.

Please return to the origional topic.

Brian R. VanCise
MartialTalk Super Moderator

 

[rutherford]

Hey, you didn't sign it. You want to talk about it more, send me a PM.

 

[alfyed11]

As much as I'm still licking my scratches from the last thread I got involved in, Mr. E, are you speaking from personal experience in the Bujinkan? Have you left due to that?

- JAF (you can call me Al)

 

[eyebeams]

This is all somewhat irrelevant, as I've seen how Hayes teaches Ichimonji in the classical kihon vid, and it is with the rear hand at the crook of the lead arm. He lists shuto and fudoken as possible variations for the rear hand. He also specifically calls the rear-hand-at-delt posture seigan from kotoryu.

 

[DWeidman]

Oh, if you only knew the full story. If you only knew who I consider my friends and my history with them. Then you would know why I am confident in what I say, even now. But the famous Bujinkan reputation of eating its own prevents me from giving them up to you.

I understand. It goes right along with your Mr. E (Mystery) - No name, no location, No style, stand at the side and tell us what we are doing wrong... according to your nameless "friends". Funny, I used to go by that moniker about 12 yrs ago when I thought I was being clever as well... Oh well, I like putting my name next to my posts. Seems.... what is the word... honorable? (instead of hiding...).

Seriously, this is almost laughable...

Syd just showed a pic of Soke - in a book written by Soke - directly contracting a load of crap you tried to dump on RT (and his second rate instructor...) - and you stand by your "nameless friends" and your conviction that you are still right.

Amazing.

...It still amazes me that people would sign up here and yet not even read the rules.

Yeah... I guess spending about a thousand hours on boards over the years makes you think you know the basic rules. Of course... this is martial talk - instead of Martial Act... so things are a little... softer here. Makes it nice... to hide behind...

Most MARTIAL boards, for example, seem to like people to post with their real name.... Seems kinda against the warrior principles to hide behind a fake name... eh?

And he is not the only one whose behavior has caused concern.

Oooooh. I am restless. Will hardly be able to sleep tonight. I wonder who else is causing "concern".

There has been too much shame brought on the Bujinkan name due to this thread.

Says you. Which reminds me... you aren't in the BJK are you? So why does this concern you so?

As a last point, then I am logging off for the night... The BJK is far greater than this little corner of the Interwebs. I somehow doubt that any significant damage or benefit will come from this tiny little thread. But you keep dreaming big man... I mean... your opinion about us COUNTS. LOTS. I know the rest of the BJK is getting a letter right now on how to handle the public relations nightmare that this thread is going to cause, once CNN gets a hold of it...

Whatever dude.

-Daniel (Yep - that is my name...)

 

[DWeidman]

There is no such thing as the Togakure ryu version of ichimonji no kamae. Ichimonji no kamae is done ONE way, from ONE ryu: Gyokko.

Just in case everyone missed it. ;-)

then..

That is what Devil Hanzo said he was learning. And can you point me to something produced by Mr Hatsumi that has something called ichimonji no kamae as a stance?
...I do not want something done by any of his students on either a web site, video or personal comment. I want to check with the source. This may not sound like an important point, but just because you don't understand how it can be important does not mean that it is not.

Done.

And still... nothing. Not even a "wow, I might be wrong". Nothing.

Amazing.

-Daniel (yep, that is my name)

PS. Seriously, I don't expect you to come out and actually reply to this again. I am sure this is easier to deal with... silently.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...d.php?p=427486. Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.

-Brian R. VanCise
-MartialTalk Super Moderator-

 

[Doc_Jude]

Just in case everyone missed it. ;-)

then..



Done.

And still... nothing. Not even a "wow, I might be wrong". Nothing.

Amazing.

-Daniel (yep, that is my name)

PS. Seriously, I don't expect you to come out and actually reply to this again. I am sure this is easier to deal with... silently.

Silence is the way of the Ninja. I think that we all could learn something from the Ninja Masters of old.

 

[alfyed11]

Admitting you are incorrect is the way of someone who takes responsibility for his mistake. That whole silence thing would've come in handy about 10 posts ago.

 

[Mr. E]

Admitting you are incorrect is the way of someone who takes responsibility for his mistake.

Then perhaps you might want to take the time to apologize for the accusation you made about me? Hmmmm?

Mr Weidman- ok, I asked for an example and I got it. I still trust my sources on this matter. I think I said something to that effect in my last post, first paragraph. I think you are in danger of getting in trouble for your behavior over this matter and I do not want another Bujinkan member to bring shame to Mr Hatsumi- a man I greatly respect. So I will admit that there are photos I had not been aware of to try to stop that from happening.