Official Story for 9/11...lies?

[Makalakumu]

Sorry, I posted this on another thread, but I think it deserves its own thread. Very controversial.

Now to stir the pot

Read any of these websites and tell me that you have no doubts about the official story.

1. This one is so well researched that its leaves you breathless at the end. Its long.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP310A.html

2. This is a true conspiracy theory. I think it is problematic and unbeleivable in its entirety, but it does raise some interesting questions which is why I would like to share it.

http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.html

3. This is an analysis of the events at the pentagon and it also raises of interesting questions.

http://physics911.org/net/modules/n...e.php?storyid=3

4. Did the President know anything before hand?

http://pilger.carlton.com/print/124759

Is there anyone out there that does not believe the official story. I am not a proponant of any of the theories posted above, but I think that collectively, they take the official story and trash as much as what has been done in the analysis of the assassination of JFK. Each peice presented above is like the Dallas coroners report, the magic bullet, and the Zapruder film. Collectively they expose a lie. I want to know what actually happened. Does anyone else want to know?

What do you think now?

 

[MA-Caver]

That the Pentagon plane crash is fishy I have no doubt. Though they have witnesses'; I'd say I saw a plane flying over head for a few hundred thousand dollars too. The impact hole and lack of plane debris is plain enough that it was no large plane that hit the building. It, unlike the WTC was made of concrete...akin to hitting a brick wall with your car at high speed... gonna do some damage but they're gonna find YOU and the car in bad shape. So would they find a large passenger jet loaded with fuel for a cross country flight.

On the second tower crash I have doubts about it. WTC was made largely of steel and glass there was indeed a lot of fuel left on board (for cross country flight).

This whole 9-11 conspiracy theory will go on and on and on like the Kennedy, Hoffa, Moon Landing and UFO consipiracies that we see crop up year after year.

Main question is WHY is our government lying to us and for what purpose? Control? Domination? Changes in legsilation for further control of the general populace?

I said it before (here on MT) and I'll say it again. I LOVE my country and I'll die for it... but I'm wary o' my government!

 

[TonyM.]

I've been saying that the plane crashes were a diversion to drive emergency vehicles loaded with explosives into the parking garage again since day one. I still believe that. Why don't they own up to the truth. That the planes were highjacked is just as embarrasing so why the problem admitting they were faked out?
My concern is that because they are trying to cover up a major security lapse it may happen again if there is not public awareness. And why isn't bin ladens head on a stick somewhere?

 

[Makalakumu]

If you want to see the information that many conspiracy theorists are using to support their "theories" check out these sites. It is plain to me that their is some connection between our current state of the world affairs, these plans, and 9/11. The only thing that I can say for sure, with evidence to back it up, the official story is not true and the truth is being hidden.

PEOPLE, LOOK AT THESE SITES!!!!!!!!!

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EC20Ak07.html

upnorthkyosa

 

[rmcrobertson]

Hey, did you know that we never REALLY landed on the moon?

Uh...guys? Too many spy movies. I'd also back off on the X-Files reruns.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by upnorthkyosa
If you want to see the information that many conspiracy theorists are using to support their "theories" check out these sites. It is plain to me that their is some connection between our current state of the world affairs, these plans, and 9/11. The only thing that I can say for sure, with evidence to back it up, the official story is not true and the truth is being hidden.

PEOPLE, LOOK AT THESE SITES!!!!!!!!!

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EC20Ak07.html

upnorthkyosa

The second link references the fact of the USA having a planned war against Saudi Arabia. This statment alone makes me doubt the rest of the website. Why would the USA attack the KSA? (* Read Kingsom of Saudi Arabia *) Just because they are of the Islamic Belief? I think not. There government and ours are on good favors with each other. We sell them our best Technology and weapons for military and civilian uses. The Caliph of Sa'ud or the King of Saudi and his family have been to the USA many times. They built and maintain the largest single desalinzation station in the world, free to their people. They also will release or hold back on Oil to maintian a controlled level of the price of oil in the general market.

I would like to know why we would attack the most influential country in the region that is our ally?

I see not tacticle or logical or even financial reason to do so.

Confused

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Rich,
There has been a cooling of relations between USA & KSA. I believe (may be mistaken) that we have mostly pulled out of SA militarilly recently as well. Many Sauds feel very strongly against the US or a US military presence on Saudi soil.

Think about it. There -is- a reason why a large number of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi, and why a fair amount of those now heading to Iraq are also Saudi.

Just because the people in power are our allies, doesn't mean the general population are.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Rich,
There has been a cooling of relations between USA & KSA. I believe (may be mistaken) that we have mostly pulled out of SA militarilly recently as well. Many Sauds feel very strongly against the US or a US military presence on Saudi soil.

Think about it. There -is- a reason why a large number of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi, and why a fair amount of those now heading to Iraq are also Saudi.

Just because the people in power are our allies, doesn't mean the general population are.

Yes, I know the general people are not happy with the Heathen Dogs in war machines in their country. Just like many people here are not happy about USA citizens are in Iraq or Afghanastan.

Yet these do not define the financial nor the political reasons why the USA would atack the KSA. Many of the subjects of the KSA are not happy with the USA because we are attacking those of Islam faith. Once again people are drawing lines based completly upon religion and assuming allies and enemies from it. And yes the average person will do this. People who run countries do not have the luxury to do this. We may remove our troops to help support the KSA governmental decisions, and to avoid problems with the subjects of the KSA. Yet I do not think that the USA would attack or make war against them over these issues.

I have been wrong before though.

 

[Makalakumu]

Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Richard Perle, and Paul Wolfowitz are the architects of PNAC. The war with Iraq, according to this plan, was planned long before 9/11. They are using the tragedy as a "convenient" excuse, that much is obvious. The second website makes the Saudi Connection. An established military presence in Iraq - not overseen by any foriegn government... Already steps are being taken in the directions of other countries named in the plan. Could 9/11 be the Reichstag fire of the US?

Robert - you seem to have a skeptical opinion of ALL this. Could you explain?

 

[rmcrobertson]

Yep, I'm cynical as all hell about this stuff.

Why? For exactly the same reasons that the stuff about subliminal ads is crap. The problem isn't what's hidden; it's what's right out in the open.

See Marcuse on, "repressive desublimation." The Age of Secrecy is over; this is what Guy Debord called, "the society of the spectacle."

These grand conspiracy theories are ways for us to avoid simply considering economic reality and our own complicity. Further, they help increase that sense of, "Ah, screw it. What can ya do?" that's so common today.

And best of all, the conspiracies suggest solutions that would allow us to go on living in precisely the same greedy, irresponsible, unsustainable ways we presently are living. Uncover the conspiracy, throw these bastards out, put good guys in there, leave the system exactly the way it is, that's the ticket.

All these Big Secrets have been out pretty much in the open for anybody who cared to look for thirty years at least. Hell, my old man worked at Fort Detrick in the 60s--I knew damn well what they did by the time I was eleven.

Not much of a conspiracy, I'd say.

 

[Ender]

And Hillary was on the grassy knoll....*LOL...rme...

oh wait...Zapatas was a mexican bandit!!..B for bandit...B for BUSH!!!..it's all very clear now!!*LOL

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Just some stuff I dug up....some informational, some pro, some con, some well, 'specul'.
=====

File 911: The Saudi Connection
http://members.tripod.com/stromata/id346.htm

Saudi Arabia, the GOLIATH
http://www.geocities.com/arabracismplusjihad/SaudiArabia

CIA - The World Factbook -- Saudi Arabia
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sa.html

Philadelphia Inquirer | 08/07/2002 | Saudi Arabia is an enemy, US ...
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/2002/08/07/news/front/3815081.htm?template=

IranExpert:US urged to place Saudi Arabia on enemy list
http://www.iranexpert.com/2002/emergingenemyhouseofsaud12august.htm

Saudi Arabia: Friend, Foe, or Neither?
http://www.cato.org/dailys/08-13-02.html

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by Ender
And Hillary was on the grassy knoll....*LOL...rme...

oh wait...Zapatas was a mexican bandit!!..B for bandit...B for BUSH!!!..it's all very clear now!!*LOL

No, actually, the 3 individuals on the knoll were all male. Now, unless Shrillery has a sex change.....

 

[Rich Parsons]

Thanks Bob, A different Read.


This is from the third link.

"The road to the entire Middle East goes through Baghdad," said the administration official, who is hawkish on Iraq. "Once you have a democratic regime in Iraq, like the ones we helped establish in Germany and Japan after World War II, there are a lot of possibilities."

To accomplish the Democracy as we did in Japan and in Germany we will have to have occupy the area and country for years and years. The problem is the population does not want to occupied, nor do they believe that USA should be there.

The long occupation will cost lives, are we the US population willing to pay this price over time?

From the Art of War:
Once a war drags on the troops become tired and morale suffers when it comes time to attack their strength is quickly exhausted

A protracted war will also delete the funds of the state.

In Jidda, the Saudi minister of foreign affairs, Prince Saud al-Faisal, denounced the briefing as "pure fiction."

"It is unfortunate that there are people in some quarters who are trying to cast doubt and undermine the solid and historic ties between our two countries. I am confident that they will not succeed."

Not unepxected that the Government was denying any problems.



From the forth link:

Both the official and neocon positions are simplistic and flawed. The Saudi government looked the other way for too long while organizations in Saudi Arabia funded and supported al Qaeda. In addition, the Saudi government openly supported the Taliban regime, which harbored al Qaeda, and fundamentalist Islamic schools in Pakistan that churned out terrorists. The Bush administration, in a fundamental misunderstanding of the way the oil market works, is making a mistake to look the other way on such questionable Saudi activities and to coddle the regime to secure Saudi oil.

I would like to see proof of the Saudi Government involvement with al Qaeda. I know that many of the people involved are from KSA and also are religous extremists, yet many are also denouced by their governement and their families.

It would be like saying that since a US Christian killed a person another country, that all US Christians are terrorists and willing to kill anyone at teh drop of a hat.

Yes, KSA is not as forward with womens' rights and other areas that the USA holds dear. Yet if we expect others to respect our culture and our beliefs would it not be good for us to also respect other people's beliefs and culture. For a country like teh USA to claim it has Freedom and rigths of the people, and we fought the Commie Hoard to Backruptcy, we still want every other country to just be like the USA. I find this to a be little hypocratic.

Just my opinion. Yet the great thing about this board, and the USA we have the right to epxress our opinions. I am always hoping for people to exress theirs. I learn the most from those that have a different opinion from mine.

With respect
:asian:

 

[hardheadjarhead]

That the Pentagon plane crash is fishy I have no doubt. Though they have witnesses'; I'd say I saw a plane flying over head for a few hundred thousand dollars too. The impact hole and lack of plane debris is plain enough that it was no large plane that hit the building.

Lack of debris? Who says?

If you want to believe, that, go for it. Then account for the victims on the flight. Maybe they flew the plane to another location and crashed it into the ocean? Or maybe they made up the victims...

The smell of jet fuel...did they secretly bring tons of it and secret it in those offices they were renovating? Maybe they drove it up in a truck and nobody noticed it. Then they had "special investigators" secretly abscond with the pieces of the truck.



I think its bad enough that Arabs are creating Zionist conspiracy theories to cover this whole thing...we don't need to feed those conspiracies because our need for peudointellecutal explanations for the meaning of our world.

Steve

 

[Makalakumu]

As I've said before, most of the theories make assumptions that far outstrip the questions their evidence supports. The only thing that I could say for sure, is that we do NOT know what really happened and an effort is being made to make sure that we WON'T know.

 

[MisterMike]

We don't know what happened? Along what lines?

And what is so convincing that they ARE covering something up?

Must be the wrong president in office.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

2. This is a true conspiracy theory. I think it is problematic and unbeleivable in its entirety, but it does raise some interesting questions which is why I would like to share it.

http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.html

I just read through a bunch of the stuff here.... definately interesting...definately far fetched, yet possible.

The question is, how possible?

 

[Makalakumu]

Its not the theories, forget them. Look at the facts they present.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by MACaver
That the Pentagon plane crash is fishy I have no doubt. Though they have witnesses'; I'd say I saw a plane flying over head for a few hundred thousand dollars too. The impact hole and lack of plane debris is plain enough that it was no large plane that hit the building. It, unlike the WTC was made of concrete...akin to hitting a brick wall with your car at high speed... gonna do some damage but they're gonna find YOU and the car in bad shape. So would they find a large passenger jet loaded with fuel for a cross country flight.
]

There were people there. The Eskrima Digest has some members who were in the building at the time of the crash. They must have faked the plane parts along the building in some of the web shots and live feed TV shots. Yet, much of it was destroyed. The Flames were very hot, see below for more details.

Originally posted by MACaver
On the second tower crash I have doubts about it. WTC was made largely of steel and glass there was indeed a lot of fuel left on board (for cross country flight).
]

You have doubts about the second tower? It was the fuel that burned very hot and caused a stress in the metal, the metal was not designed to take thsoe temperatures. The metal fatigued and failed due to the extreme heat. Did you see the second plane crash video?

Originally posted by MACaver
This whole 9-11 conspiracy theory will go on and on and on like the Kennedy, Hoffa, Moon Landing and UFO consipiracies that we see crop up year after year.
]

Kennedy - is a separate issue. Yet it is a conspiricy issue. Kennedy pissed off a lot of people and they wanted him gone.

Hoffa - Also pissed off alot of people and they wanted him gone.

Moon Landing - Yep this was a fake. All the modern Technology first designed for space that could nto be used, that was released to the general public. Such as plastics designed for use inside the human body. Heart Valve Technology. Micro Chips, all 4 Bit processors. Short range communication devices that later became cordless phone and then wireless, and cell phone. The space race and the moon landing was just another cover up to take people off the true cover up of Kennedy.

Did you know that GM and Ford, both had Carburetors that got 50 to 75 MPG back in the seventies, yet it was the Government that prohibited them from releasing them. Pure Greed shows this as a falsehood, any company with this technology would and will jump all over it.

Originally posted by MACaver
Main question is WHY is our government lying to us and for what purpose? Control? Domination? Changes in legsilation for further control of the general populace?
]

Originally posted by MACaver
I said it before (here on MT) and I'll say it again. I LOVE my country and I'll die for it... but I'm wary o' my government!

I respect this statment. This is a very healthy way to approach life and Politics and Government.

:asian: