1000 Architects and Engineers Question Official 9/11 Story - Washington Times Article

[Ken Morgan]

In the UK an MI5 employee thinks that the planes flown into the WTC were really missiles....we all saw planes because they were shrouded by holograms....
....yeah...holograms.

OMG, WTF?

I think all the conspiracy theories are not so much about what "really" happened, I think they take a pulse on what people think about government in general. Many people, especially in the US just don't trust government, from any party.

I think government is inefficient, incompetent, spend happy group of people, but I also believe that government is absolutely necessary for our survival and I have serious doubts as to the validity of any conspiracy theory, government is just not that competent

 

[Makalakumu]

Whatever man. Look at the moonbats you are holding us as "experts".

Moonbat chemists, chemical engineers, and other scientists...

 

[Makalakumu]

If the conspiracy nuts were arguing that the hijackers were "assets" of some sort that were manipulated by the gvt..that would at least be plausable IMO.

First we have to believe in the controlled demo of THREE downtown NYC buildings with tens to hundreds of tons of "therimte/explosives" wired into them without detection. Not only did they have to be secretly wired they had to be timed to coinside with the strikes of the planes and perfectly synchronized and intert enough to not be ignited by the crashes and resultant fires. Not to mention the fact that the crashes had to be in a precise location of the building; otherwise the "show blow" wouldn't look right.

Then there is all the rest of 9/11...missiles launched into the pentagon...faked flight 93 crash/shoot down...all the investigators and people involved kept quiet????

And as to "professionals" and their sanity...

In the UK an MI5 employee thinks that the planes flown into the WTC were really missiles....we all saw planes because they were shrouded by holograms....

.....

....yeah...holograms.

Please. Go peddal that all this crazy elsewhere.

I do agree with you here. There is so much craziness, it's hard to take any of it seriously. Your first sentence, if anything, is probably the most plausible. Then again, maybe 19 hijackers really did do it and a whole bunch of really freaky stuff happened, and that's that.

 

[jks9199]

I do agree with you here. There is so much craziness, it's hard to take any of it seriously. Your first sentence, if anything, is probably the most plausible. Then again, maybe 19 hijackers really did do it and a whole bunch of really freaky stuff happened, and that's that.

It's kind of interesting how often freaky stuff and weird coincidences start showing up when you look for them around an incident. Especially a really big incident...

Don't take my word for it -- give it a try. Take some locally significant (or insignificant) incident, and spend a bit of time looking for odd things around it... Once you start, you're going to find 'em. Someone who called off right before the copier broke down... and the copier being broke meant you had to go to Kinkos to make copies for the meeting, which made you run late, and you got in a crash because you were somewhere you wouldn't have been had it not been for all that... So, clearly the guy who called off wanted you to crash, right? (No, I don't really think you'd make that mistake of causation; it's just a plausable chain of events as an example.)

 

[MBuzzy]

Anyone here who has had to work with an architect in making a building actually happen? Only one time for me, and those guys don't know crap about the building structure or the mechanics of it running. They might come up with fancy ideas of making it look nice, but that's about it. You need OTHER experts to make it happen.

Saying an architect is an expert on structural loads and building structure etc. is like saying because I am a police officer, I am an expert on the law decisions of the US Supreme Court. Why would anyone buy that argument? They wouldn't, they would realize I had training in a specific area of law and it's enforcement, but NOT the training in other aspects of the law and interpreting it that a Supreme Court justice does.

Exactly - the process works like this: Architect creates a conceptual design of a building - what it will look like, sometimes floor plans, some exterior aesthetics issues, etc.

He then sends that design to an Engineer (this usually happens either between two firms, and Architecture Firm and an Engineering Firm or a consolidated A/E firm). First stop is the Structural Engineer. He takes the conceptual design and creates a skeleton, then passes off to the Mechanical and Electrical guys to size and design the Electrical and HVAC systems. Then through a series of Design reviews with the Owner, Architect, Engineers, and other interested parties, they iterate the design down to the final plans and it is built. That is of course a VERY loose interpretation and pretty simplified, with the creation of Design Build and other cool construction methods, but that's the jist. The bottom line is that the guy who says what a building LOOKS like and the guy who designs it are two different people.

So basically the point is that this 1000 people number need to be cut down to ONLY those with the authority to comment, then let's see how many and compare that to the total number in the country.

Until the leading organization for structural engineers comes out and says that there are some errors in the official report, I'm not buying the story.

Yep, ASCE has stated their opinion years ago and they found that it was the fire and the planes. Nothing else. Until they retract their official opinion, I probably wont' change mine, simply because they are the experts. Those guys are by far, the smartest in the country....as I said, they teach the rest of of how to be structural engineers.

Here's my other problem with the doubts to the Official Story....

If it WASN'T the planes and the fire, I have yet to see a convincing story as to what actually DID cause the buildings to collapse. A controlled detonation just isn't feasable. The amount of explosive needed to bring those things down is huge and would have been noticed. It is true that a single support will take down the buliding, but the collapse would have looked MUCH different. you would need charges on EACH of the primary supports and have the buliding wired going up the supports as well to make them fall how they did. the only way to make them come straight down like that is from a vertical load. Exactly what happened when the heat made the steel reach its yield point and caused each floor to progressively collapse, increasing the dead load on the floor below and causing catastrophic failure. Present a BETTER argument, not simply holes in what is out there and I'll believe it.

I have no doubt that there are holes and unexplained portions of the official story, but with an event this big and very little way to investigate after the fact, that is to be assumed. I just have a hard time believing this stuff when all I've seen are doubts and no better explanations!

 

[72ronin]

I dont know much about 9/11 at all. May i say that this thread has only addressed the building(s) collapse etc.

What about opinion on the other points raised in the OP. Like eye-witness statements.
I remember seeing a plane hit the pentagon during the tv coverage, whats with that now?

I almost feel like apologising for commenting here on this issue, as i dont live in America and certainly dont wish to throw my opinion at this as i dont have one, only that my heart goes out to all the Victims and Families and rescue workers etc.

 

[Makalakumu]

I dont know much about 9/11 at all. May i say that this thread has only addressed the building(s) collapse etc.

What about opinion on the other points raised in the OP. Like eye-witness statements.
I remember seeing a plane hit the pentagon during the tv coverage, whats with that now?

I almost feel like apologising for commenting here on this issue, as i dont live in America and certainly dont wish to throw my opinion at this as i dont have one, only that my heart goes out to all the Victims and Families and rescue workers etc.

OMG, I don't know where to start. Just type 9/11 conspiracy into google video and you'll get an eyeful.

 

[Archangel M]

I think government is inefficient, incompetent, spend happy group of people

Yeah. Which seems to preclude the ability of gvt to pull of an operation of this scale, complexity and secrecy without ****ing it up doesn't it?

And at the same time this gvt couldn't pull off planting some "weapons of mass destruction" in the vast unwatched Iraq desert.

:shrug:

 

[72ronin]

As an observer, i dont believe America would do this to its own citizens. Not for a second would i entertain that theory.

It was an attack on America, has the viewpoint of "other" powerful groups been contemplated? And im not talking about who the finger was pointed at either.

Seems to me that it really hasnt paid off for the so called "terrorists" hey. For the results of the attack are having his cause/country lose everything etc. That doesnt make sense hey, he has lost all he was apparently fighting for!!

Perhaps a third party orchestrated the whole thing?
Like i have stated earlier, i dont know enough about it all, but a third party pulling strings here and there does make more sense.

Considering the alternatives are a handfull of terrorists basically writing off their whole apparent cause and countries for that matter -- Or even more ridiculous than that, an inside job!.

A third party makes more sense than the two versions that are contemplated..