No ID - College Student Tazed - 3 Times

[bydand]

I understand your point, but this student is a member of the community the library is built to serve. He is the reason the library is there.

Then he should know the rules already then. ID required, means ID required, not "neo-nazi check point ahead." If he didn't like that particular rule, a) use a different library, b) change schools, c) carry his ID and shut up.

 

[michaeledward]

Then he should know the rules already then. ID required, means ID required, not "neo-nazi check point ahead." If he didn't like that particular rule, a) use a different library, b) change schools, c) carry his ID and shut up.

Yep.

And the fact that he was uncooperative means he should get tazed.

I got one for my home. When my kids don't clean their room ... ZAPPP!!

 

[bydand]

Yep.

And the fact that he was uncooperative means he should get tazed.

I got one for my home. When my kids don't clean their room ... ZAPPP!!

Damn man, don't talk to my wife alright! She just may agree with you about my garage.

I didn't say what they did was acceptable, just he knew the rules, he made the choice to break them. Not being there, and not being privy to everything leading up to where the video picks up, I can't make the call about the first time they zapped him. The other times were totally unacceptable and I have already stated that.

 

[Cryozombie]

Maybe we should close down all the libraries, and burn all the books. That'll solve these problems, won't it.

What a RATIONAL, SANE rebuttal to being shown you are wrong. Spoken like a Typical Liberal, and a perfect example of why I hate libs. Refute their argument with a cold, unarguable fact, and they attack a random, yet similar idea to throw off the fact they lost the argument.

 

[michaeledward]

What a RATIONAL, SANE rebuttal to being shown you are wrong. Spoken like a Typical Liberal, and a perfect example of why I hate libs. Refute their argument with a cold, unarguable fact, and they attack a random, yet similar idea to throw off the fact they lost the argument.

And you have not posited any suggestion to for the function of a school library ... if it is not there to serve the student body. And the owners of this particular school are the citizens of California.

We have not determined the citizenship of the student. But we do know he was a student.

That he did not have his "papers" certainly justifies the response. That's the perfectly sane response of the ... whatever you want to describe yourself as.

I hear they need more Mounted Police in Houston. ... Interested?




P.S. And I didn't realize this thread was about ME ... and whether I am right or wrong. That you for valueing my opinion so highly that you must attack me. Although, I would rather you pay attention to the student body at UCLA. Or the Janitors in Houston.

 

[Makalakumu]

What a RATIONAL, SANE rebuttal to being shown you are wrong. Spoken like a Typical Liberal, and a perfect example of why I hate libs. Refute their argument with a cold, unarguable fact, and they attack a random, yet similar idea to throw off the fact they lost the argument.

Right. RFID anyone?

Gimme those verachips!

 

[fireman00]

I guess the next time this nitwit will think twice before being a jerk. He was asked to show his ID multiple times - he refused. He thought he was being profiled due to his ethnicity (he's Iranian I believe); which of course gives him all the rights in the world - at least in his little "I can do anything I want 'cuz I'm an American" mind.

He was then asked to leave multiple times by the campus cops and he refused.

so they fried his arrogant butt like a sunny side over light - next time he's asked - politely - he might listen.

What if smoking joe wasn't a student and followed a female student out and raped then killed her. Would everyone whose upset that he was Tazzed feel better?

Stop acting like the cops just picked out a random person and without warning zapped them.

 

[Makalakumu]

I guess the next time this nitwit will think twice before being a jerk. He was asked to show his ID multiple times - he refused. He thought he was being profiled due to his ethnicity (he's Iranian I believe); which of course gives him all the rights in the world - at least in his little "I can do anything I want 'cuz I'm an American" mind.

He was then asked to leave multiple times by the campus cops and he refused.

so they fried his arrogant butt like a sunny side over light - next time he's asked - politely - he might listen.

What if smoking joe wasn't a student and followed a female student out and raped then killed her. Would everyone whose upset that he was Tazzed feel better?

Stop acting like the cops just picked out a random person and without warning zapped them.

Maybe the next time you really care about something...care enough to try and say something...someone will taze you. Maybe they will even handcuff you and taze you because your body can't move fast enough for their authoritarian commands. Maybe they will taze you so long that someone will catch your screams on their cell phone camera and then post it on the internet.

Then people who disagree with you can comment on your behavior.

This is the danger of this thing. It's a slippery slope.

 

[Cryozombie]

And you have not posited any suggestion to for the function of a school library ... if it is not there to serve the student body. And the owners of this particular school are the citizens of California.

We have not determined the citizenship of the student. But we do know he was a student.

So... by that logic, anyone from the state of california can show up, use the library, take the materials out they need, attend any class, play on the football team, use the pool, science lab, etc...

without proving they are registered or belong there.

Gotcha. Go give that a try in your state.

 

[Cryozombie]

Maybe the next time you really care about something...care enough to try and say something...someone will taze you. Maybe they will even handcuff you and taze you because your body can't move fast enough for their authoritarian commands. Maybe they will taze you so long that someone will catch your screams on their cell phone camera and then post it on the internet.

This is a ******** answer, because he was not "taze you because your body can't move fast enough for their authoritarian commands." He was REFUSING to follow their instructions. Big Difference.

And, Mike, you are right, ok... everyone should have access everywhere, regardless of whether or not they belong... So take the doors off your house.

 

[Cryozombie]

For that matter... try going to the God Damn PUBLIC library and Call the librarian a nazi for requiring a library card to check out a book. Tell her this is America, and you dont need to show your papers, or Follow the god damn rules. Do it the next time you are fishing and a conservation officer asks for your ID, or a cop wants to see your drivers licence because you were speeding. You dont like the god damn rules, instead of fighting the cops who come to enforce them, you fight the rule makers in the proper manner to get them changed. That guy could not or would not prove he belonged there, and was in the eyes of the Staff and Police guilty of criminal trespass. PERIOD.

Im done arguing this ******** with you people who seem to think that acting in a criminal fashion is your ****ing right, and there should be ZERO consequences for it.
​

 

[MJS]

Another article http://www.yahoo.com/s/440637 on the subject.

Once again this brings to me the question of why was their a video and why did it start when it did. Until I get those questions answered I will suspect it and the reasons for it.

And this is the #1 reason why there is always that shadow of a doubt on the end of the police. Its video that is shot by someone who is getting half the story! 9 times out of 10, we see the middle or end of an incident, but rarely do we ever see something from the beginning...the beginning, where the story really beings to unfold.

We can specualte till we're blue in the face about what should/should not have happened, but I agree with what you're saying Rich...there are many unanswered questions.

Mike

 

[Makalakumu]

This is a ******** answer, because he was not "taze you because your body can't move fast enough for their authoritarian commands." He was REFUSING to follow their instructions. Big Difference.

And, Mike, you are right, ok... everyone should have access everywhere, regardless of whether or not they belong... So take the doors off your house.

When you are tazed and breathing heavy on your hands and knees trying to make your body work like you want it to work...then you might understand what is happening here.

When I was tazed, I felt like my entire body was heavy. Like I couldn't move even afterward. It totally sucked.

 

[MJS]

Mike,

You seem almost like you're offended that the security asked to see his ID. Its really no different than someone who is trying to gain access to a bar. If the bouncer wants to see ID, you have 2 choices: 1) show him the damn ID or 2) refuse and you dont get admitted. Its that simple!! The college has rules in place, and apparently this kid didn't want to listen to them, so he was removed.

Its no different than at an airport, a train station or bus station. Considering there is a heightened terror alert, its a given that at any time, the chances of a LEO or security personnel asking to see the inside if your bags.

The bottom line is...why do people have to be jerks? Simply comply with the rules in place and things will be so much easier.

Mike

 

[michaeledward]

Im done arguing this ******** with you people who seem to think that acting in a criminal fashion is your ****ing right, and there should be ZERO consequences for it.​

No one is arguing ZERO consequences ... except in your "your with us or against us" mind.

What we are arguing is that the response was disproportionate with the offense.

 

[michaeledward]

Mike,

You seem almost like you're offended that the security asked to see his ID. Its really no different than someone who is trying to gain access to a bar. If the bouncer wants to see ID, you have 2 choices: 1) show him the damn ID or 2) refuse and you dont get admitted. Its that simple!! The college has rules in place, and apparently this kid didn't want to listen to them, so he was removed.

Its no different than at an airport, a train station or bus station. Considering there is a heightened terror alert, its a given that at any time, the chances of a LEO or security personnel asking to see the inside if your bags.

The bottom line is...why do people have to be jerks? Simply comply with the rules in place and things will be so much easier.

Mike

The difference seems to be ... is that the student was already in the library working ... minding his own business. He was not, apparently, attempting to gain entry. This seems to have been started by a 'RANDOM SWEEP' - whcih probably wasn't so random. It probably happens in some area of the library every evening. BUT ... It's not like he was trying to get in to the library. He was already there.

And he wasn't removed ... he blew off the librarian ... and when the police showed up ... according to at least two articles linked in this thread, and the audio of the video ... was grabbed by the police officer while he was leaving.

Only FearlessFreep has offered any arguments against those facts, and he has not posted supporting links.

It is exactly the 'Heightened state of terror alert' that is driving this crazy behavior.

I don't care if Osama bin Laden is walking through times square, the Authorities in the United States have an awful lot of explaining to do about their behavior when using "Less Lethal" weapons against handcuffed, passive resisting students. You know, Kind of like trampelling striking workers with horses.

http://houston.indymedia.org/news/2006/11/54346.php

That seems to be an UNREASONABLE SIEZURE, something I thought was prohibited by one of those Amendments on that God Damned Piece of Paper --- as described by our President.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml

 

[MJS]

The difference seems to be ... is that the student was already in the library working ... minding his own business. He was not, apparently, attempting to gain entry. This seems to have been started by a 'RANDOM SWEEP' - whcih probably wasn't so random. It probably happens in some area of the library every evening. BUT ... It's not like he was trying to get in to the library. He was already there.

And if someone was already in a bar, and the cops walk in to do a check to make sure no underage people are in there getting served, its really no different. Are you suggesting that this kid was 'targeted' by a racial profile? Who knows...AFAIK, nobody on this fourm was there, so what do we have to go by? A video clip? Interviews by other students? A half *** report by the local newspaper reporter, who very well could have left details out? We just dont have enough to go on. We all have our opinions, and you seem to have picked yours and thats cool with me. But, I'm the type of guy that wants to get all the facts.

And he wasn't removed ... he blew off the librarian ... and when the police showed up ... according to at least two articles linked in this thread, and the audio of the video ... was grabbed by the police officer while he was leaving.

Why did he blow off the person that asked for the ID? IMHO, thats a question that needs to be answered by someone. As for being grabbed...I don't know why that happened.

It is exactly the 'Heightened state of terror alert' that is driving this crazy behavior.

Who knows. I'd imagine that its on the minds of some. Do you feel that he was 'targeted' by the staff there?

I don't care if Osama bin Laden is walking through times square, the Authorities in the United States have an awful lot of explaining to do about their behavior when using "Less Lethal" weapons against handcuffed, passive resisting students. You know, Kind of like trampelling striking workers with horses.

Just because someone is cuffed, does not mean that they can't continue to resist. If he was no longer resisting, I'd have to say that the use of the taser would not be justified. If he was still resisting, then yes, handcuffed or not, I'd say they'd be justified.

That seems to be an UNREASONABLE SIEZURE, something I thought was prohibited by one of those Amendments on that God Damned Piece of Paper --- as described by our President.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml

I dont see whats unreasonable about asking someone to show ID.

Mike

 

[Bob Hubbard]

So Let me see if I have this clear.

Not having ID is now a Criminal Offense?

Tazering a prone, handcuffed, non-combative individual is acceptable behavior for a Law Enforcement Officer?

Complying with the order of a LEO at a speed the LEO deems to be slow, is acceptable grounds for said LEO to physically assault you?

Questions:
Did the student do anything, other than move too slow, to justify the initial tasering?

After the first tasering, when he was handcuffed, other than not getting up, and yelling at the LEO, did the student do anything else that might somehow have justified being tasered again?


Let me be blunt here. I don't believe that this was justified. I believe that the LEO's in question, who several witnesses have indicated threatened them with tasering and arrest for simply asking for -their- ID, exceeded their authority, used excessive force, and are themselves guilty of assault on this student.

The fact that this student did not physically retaliate against these people while they were assaulting him, says a lot for his restraint. I doubt I would be able to hold back a kick or a swing at them, in self defense.


As to the question of how video happened to come about.....most phones sold today have cameras and video capability. Cell phone usage is huge among college age people. I'm surprised there aren't more clips up as I saw several people with phones out and recording.

Why did he blow off the original person asking him? No clue. Maybe he was preoccupied, maybe the person asking him didn't look like an "official" so he didn't take it seriously, maybe as was suggested, he wanted to create a scene.

As to what is unreasonable to show ID...what is reasonable about being assaulted and arrested for failure to show it...or have it at all? When did it become a law that one must have ID with them and show it on demand to LEO's in the US? Last I heard, we didn't have to do that.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

As to what is unreasonable to show ID...what is reasonable about being assaulted and arrested for failure to show it...or have it at all? When did it become a law that one must have ID with them and show it on demand to LEO's in the US? Last I heard, we didn't have to do that.

Guess I was wrong.
http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/03/24/buses-to-skip-denver-federal-center/

Buses to skip Denver Federal Center

By Michael Hampton
Posted: March 24, 2006 12:29 am

Deborah Davis was arrested last September in Denver, Colo., while she was riding a bus, after security guards boarded the bus and she refused to show identification. After a large public outcry, federal prosecutors dropped the charges against Davis.

Now the Denver Regional Transportation District has proposed rerouting three of its bus routes which pass through the Denver Federal Center, after complaints from passengers about being required to show ID when riding that particular bus.

The Denver Post reported that RTD had tried to work with Homeland Security to resolve the dispute, but that inconsistent enforcement of the ID requirement for entering the Denver Federal Center “made the bus service unpredictable for commuters.”

Bus routes to be changed include the 3, 5X and 100, the crosstown route Davis rode to work that fateful September day. Two other routes, the GS and 14, which terminate in the Denver Federal Center, will not be changed under the proposal.

John Gilmore’s Identity Project, which supported Davis’ efforts to fight the ID requirement, released a statement Friday about the change: “The federal government has never offered a rationale for demanding that people show their papers in order to visit federal property. People who enter are not checked against any kind of list, nor are their names or identities recorded. A mere show of submissiveness, e.g. flashing any plastic card of the right color, usually suffices. There is also no law that requires people to show their papers to enter federal property; in fact, the law states that federal property is open to the public during business hours. This hasn’t stopped the Gestapo from imposing their own made-up rules.”

Federal regulations seem to allow the government to check ID of anyone entering federal property, as long as signage is in place informing people that their ID will be checked. But because the ID isn’t checked against any sort of database, it’s actually quite useless, and does absolutely nothing for security. Even terrorists have valid ID.

This is one of the more sensible things I’ve heard come out of this long story. I’m just disappointed it took RTD months to actually get around to making the proposal. It is such an obvious solution that it takes bureaucrats months to even think of it, and probably even longer for it to get implemented.

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[Bob Hubbard]

Hmm. This zapping frenzy seems to be a California Hobby.
Rather old news:

Orange County, Calif. sheriff’s deputies continue assaults, battery
By Michael Hampton
Posted: October 12, 2005 9:46 am
Share this story: del.icio.us reddit.com Newsvine

Deputies at the Orange County jail in California have a long history of assaulting and battering people brought into the jail for even the most minor offenses. And the corrupt city officials are doing nothing about it except settling out of court and paying off the inevitable lawsuits.

The latest victim was Joshua Dominic Wilson, 20, a defensive back for semi-pro football team the Southern California Smash.

Unlike football, which has rules of conduct and penalties for cheaters, beatings in the jail are one-sided contests, where — thanks to the weak-kneed management of Sheriff Mike Carona — despicable acts routinely go unpunished. Beating prisoners doesn’t require any skill; any group of 9-year-olds armed with high-voltage taser guns and pepper spray can torture someone who is handcuffed and confined. The home team always wins.

Wilson learned this lesson on Sept. 24, after Huntington Beach police transported him to the OC Jail because he’d failed to resolve an old traffic ticket. He was stripping for a body search when he says an irritable deputy provoked an incident. The deputy told him to lift his arms up. He complied. “Higher,” the deputy ordered. Wilson became concerned. His arms were already as high as he could stretch them, a fact he says the deputy ignored. “Raise your arms,” the deputy yelled a third and fourth time. Wilson, who was wearing only pants, responded, “****, they’re already raised as high as they can go.”

“Okay, that’s it,” the deputy told Wilson. “Put your hands behind your back.”

Wilson did what he was told. After he was handcuffed, a group of deputies pounced.

“They slammed me against a wall, and then one of them sprayed a can of pepper spray directly into both of my eyes — which were wide open because I had no idea what they were doing or why,” said Wilson. “I had done everything they told me to do. I wasn’t starting any problem. I’d done nothing wrong. I was cooperating to the fullest.”

After emptying the pepper spray can, deputies fired two taser darts into Wilson’s back.”They zapped me with the electricity for about a minute,” he said. “I felt my heart pumping and I couldn’t breathe. I was screaming in pain. Then they’d pause for a second and zap me again. I’d say they zapped me four or five different times. It just didn’t stop.”

According to Wilson, the deputies weren’t finished. Still handcuffed, outnumbered and unable to see because of the pepper spray, Wilson was then punched and kicked so severely they fractured his nose in three places, ripped his lip, busted his eye socket and ribs, pounded his jaw, cut his leg and bruised his shoulder. Blood poured. A huge knot swelled on his head.

Next, they hog-tied him, twisting his legs behind his back. The hold aggravated an old knee injury, and he pleaded, “Please stop! Please stop!” But the deputies only pushed harder, he recalls. “I was scared that they were going to break my knees,” he said. “That’s all that was on my mind — that my chance for a football career would be over.”

The 10-minute beating ended when a higher-ranking officer arrived and ordered his deputies to “calm down.” They tossed Wilson into a cell, brought a video camera and interrogated him. Apparently, the interview with the blood-soaked Wilson didn’t suit the sheriff’s department’s purposes. They removed the handcuffs and ordered him to wash the blood off his face, throat, head and shoulders. After telling him they were thinking about accusing him of assaulting them, deputies rerecorded the interview with a terrified Wilson. . . .

But in August the Weekly exposed the brutal beating of San Clemente businessman Greg Hall, who was being processed in the jail after a minor traffic accident. Deputies punched, kicked and tortured Hall, who was handcuffed, hooded and left to sit in his own feces for 12 hours. He emerged from jail with a concussion, broken ribs, a gash in his leg, an eye contusion, broken veins in his feet, a shattered front tooth, lacerations and bruises over his body, contusions to his knee, neck pain, a fractured right wrist, and nerve damage to his left hand. In response, amused sheriff’s officials shrugged. One laughed.

It’s a situation screaming for immediate reform. Since rogue deputies apparently aren’t going to be fired or disciplined, here’s an idea: audio- and videotape the processing of everyone entering the jail. That would help settle allegations of abuse.

But even such modest reforms are unlikely. Carona, local judges, the grand jury and the county’s Board of Supervisors — which regularly pays out millions of taxpayer dollars to settle abuse cases — have proved to be co-conspirators. For example, the previous grand jury began investigating the jail last year but decided one subject was off-limits: jail beatings. In a May report that echoed deputy demands for more money and better offices, the grand jury hinted at its lack of concern about the violence. Deputies treated them with “respect and courtesy” when they visited the jail, they noted.

There’s hope, however. Carona — struggling through embarrassing revelations about his incompetence, connections to felons, fund-raising irregularities and a sordid mess involving an alleged series of extramarital affairs — might not be in office after next June’s election. The new grand jury could take its government watchdog role seriously. And thank God for the FBI: following the Weekly’s Aug. 12 “Justice Takes a Beating” cover story about abuses in the OC Jail, a federal agent met with Hall. Perhaps the agency will be interested in talking to Wilson too. He’s got a story to tell.

“I moved down here to start my career and hopefully get the attention of the NFL,” he said. “I didn’t come here to get beaten for no good reason.” — Orange County Weekly

Do you still trust the police?

http://www.homelandstupidity.us/200...-sheriffs-deputies-continue-assaults-battery/
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