No ID - College Student Tazed - 3 Times

[Drac]

I've been tased several times. Not that bad. Compared to the alternatives. Exp. OC spray.

I've not been tazed..OC Pepper is bad news...The officer always seems to get contaminated too...

 

[Cruentus]

A few things are interesting to me in this thread.

I find it interesting that some of you would make a logical leap that the student was being treated that way because he was Muslim. As I have mentioned before, being required to produce student ID or documentation to be on a college campus is pretty standard nowadays. I can't imagine that they would have treated anyone any different if they acted that way.

I also find it interesting that people would compare this student to Dr. King or Ghandi. This student wasn't properly protesting in a public area, or properly making a political statement. It would appear that he was being a big baby because he didn't want to leave the library, and because he must be "special" in that he doesn't have to follow the rules like everyone else, so he decided to make some sort of political statement because he couldn't have his way.

I also find it interesting that some people seem to think the force continuum goes from verbal comands to tazing. Then, of course it sounds reasonable to say, "Well, they told him....so what else were they supposed to do?" I am not saying the student didn't deserve what he got, but I do think that the cops could have cuffed and carried without the use of electricity. I explained my position with that in my previous post.

Last but not least, I thought I would mention that tazers do NOT have a 100% success rate, for those of you who might think that it is an end all be all. The success rate is very high, but there is still about a 15% or so room for failure do to a number of reasons; one of those being that some subjects simply won't stop fighting even when tazed. Bottom line, sometimes you just have to be prepared to put your hands on the subject to gain complaince, and there is no magic answer or two ways about it. After tazing the subject, they still had to carry him away because he wouldn't voluntarily move. The results would have been the same had they of not tazed him. I would err on the side of caution and not taze at all when a subject is cuffed pending extrodinary circumstances.

Paul Janulis

 

[Makalakumu]

So you would never use a less lethal device? You would always use physical skills?

I would opt for physical removal before resorting to a tazer and I would do this because laying hands on someone and escorting them out is using less force then a tazer. If the person continued to escalate, then it may become neccessary to use a tazer.

 

[michaeledward]

What tells me? This tells me.

http://www.courant.com/news/nationworld/hc-cellphone1116.artnov16,0,698173.story

According to a campus police report, the incident began when community service officers, who serve as guards at the library, began their nightly routine of checking to make sure everyone who was using the library after 11 p.m. was authorized to do so. Campus officials said the long-standing policy was adopted to ensure students' safety.

When Tabatabainejad refused to provide his ID, the officer told him he would have to show it or leave the library.

After repeated requests, the officer left and returned with campus police, who asked Tabatabainejad to leave the premises "multiple times," according to a statement by the UCLA Police Department.

"He continued to refuse," the statement said. "As the officers attempted to escort him out, he went limp and continued to refuse to cooperate with officers or leave the building."


Seems to me that they made verbal attempts and they went ignored.

Mike

Mike,

It is interesting that you stopped reading before the next paragraph.

Witnesses disputed that account, saying that by this time Tabatabainejad had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack. When an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, the witnesses said, Tabatabainejad told the officer to let go, yelling, "Get off me" several times.

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Those Witnesses disputed accounts were mentioned in my 8:55 post.

You may be right ... the fact is we don't know. It sounds like the student was blowing off the Resident Advisor, but when the "real" police showed up he started to move. And in both articles, it is the police that put hands on the student, when he was apparently leaving.

I'm wondering if there is a bias toward the 'police can't be wrong'.

What we do know, as we all should have been able to see, is the student was tazed while handcuffed.

 

[Drac]

Good God Rich, you're lucky you're still with us today!! Sorry to hear that you had this experience. The dispatcher needs some serious retraining, as there were a number of questions that should have been asked that were not.

If one of OUR dispatchers dispatched a call like that they would be up on charges..

The officer sounds like a rookie, as she seemed pretty clueless. I can see her being on the defense, as until things are sorted out, they really don't know who is who upon first arrival. Still, she didnt seem to handle the case well at all.

Some females won't admit that this is not the profession for them..If shew was a rookie where was her FTO ( Field Training Officer)..If she had been "kicked loose" to work on her own where was her back up??? We always sent 2 cars to domestics-in-progress...Then again the dispatcher probably didn't make it sound urgent enough...A week to do ONE REPORT??? One of the departments I work for will not allow me to clock out for the day until ALL reports are completed.

 

[MJS]

I would opt for physical removal before resorting to a tazer and I would do this because laying hands on someone and escorting them out is using less force then a tazer. If the person continued to escalate, then it may become neccessary to use a tazer.

Thanks for the reply. As I said, we still don't know enough and I for one, dont know the policies they go by.

 

[Makalakumu]

I also find it interesting that people would compare this student to Dr. King or Ghandi. This student wasn't properly protesting in a public area, or properly making a political statement. It would appear that he was being a big baby because he didn't want to leave the library, and because he must be "special" in that he doesn't have to follow the rules like everyone else, so he decided to make some sort of political statement because he couldn't have his way.

Much of this is hard to determine from watching the video, however, if a person acted like this before the invent of the tazer, they would simply be hauled off.

Now that we have this device, officers can use it to torture compliance out of a person. Imagine what widespread use of this would do to our freedoms?

That is where comparisons to Ghandi and MLK are warrented? How much more difficult would social movements like those have been if the authorities could torture compliance out of people?

 

[Drac]

Now that we have this device, officers can use it to torture compliance out of a person. Imagine what widespread use of this would do to our freedoms

The newer Tazers have tamper proof cameras built in that activate the minute it's pulled from the holster..This is too insure it's NOT used as a "torture device"...When taken to court the jury SEES how the subject the suspect/subject BEFORE he was tazed...Eliminates a lot of this "I-wasn't doing-anything-wrong-crap"...

 

[MJS]

Mike,

It is interesting that you stopped reading before the next paragraph.

Witnesses disputed that account, saying that by this time Tabatabainejad had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack. When an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, the witnesses said, Tabatabainejad told the officer to let go, yelling, "Get off me" several times.​

Those Witnesses disputed accounts were mentioned in my 8:55 post.

You may be right ... the fact is we don't know. It sounds like the student was blowing off the Resident Advisor, but when the "real" police showed up he started to move. And in both articles, it is the police that put hands on the student, when he was apparently leaving.

I'm wondering if there is a bias toward the 'police can't be wrong'.

What we do know, as we all should have been able to see, is the student was tazed while handcuffed.

I read the link you posted. I see what you're saying...it seemed he was leaving but they tased him anyway. Who knows, maybe they took him pulling away, the way he did, as aggression.

Were they wrong in the way they did things? I honestly dont know, but I do know, that as usual, the cops are taking 100% of the heat for this. Maybe if people had a little more respect for LEOs, didn't resist, etc., they wouldnt be forced to bring the person down, tase someone, and end up having people get half a story on a cell phone camera. The common question is "Why did they do what they did?" The question that seems to be forgotten is "Why did the person resist?"

 

[crushing]

I'm wondering if there is a bias toward the 'police can't be wrong'.

Michael,

I think there definately is something to that; from Abner Louima to Waco. Many people like to think that those that are hired to protect and serve aren't capable of doing things so wrong. On the flip side, others believe that corruption is the rule when it comes to police. I think people are mostly good with good intentions, but there are some bad apples.

 

[Drac]

think people are mostly good with good intentions, but there are some bad apples.

On both sides of the badge...

 

[MJS]

If one of OUR dispatchers dispatched a call like that they would be up on charges..

Yes, there would be some big time issues.

Some females won't admit that this is not the profession for them..If shew was a rookie where was her FTO ( Field Training Officer)..If she had been "kicked loose" to work on her own where was her back up??? We always sent 2 cars to domestics-in-progress...Then again the dispatcher probably didn't make it sound urgent enough...A week to do ONE REPORT??? One of the departments I work for will not allow me to clock out for the day until ALL reports are completed.

2 cars is standard for us as well. If there is alot of history, 1 or 2 more will usually go as well. One think about the cops where I am...if they dont get the info they're looking for, they have no problems with asking for it. Not that they should have to, as we should be giving it to them, but some request that little bit more, and rightfully so. As for the reports..a domestic report needs to be done that night.

 

[Drac]

2 cars is standard for us as well. If there is alot of history, 1 or 2 more will usually go as well. One think about the cops where I am...if they dont get the info they're looking for, they have no problems with asking for it. Not that they should have to, as we should be giving it to them, but some request that little bit more, and rightfully so. As for the reports..a domestic report needs to be done that night.

With the new CAD system dispatches can tell officers how many times we've been there and why..This is done before they arrive...

 

[MJS]

With the new CAD system dispatches can tell officers how many times we've been there and why..This is done before they arrive...

Yup, we have the same thing. The addy will come up red on the screen, indicating that there is a history. Granted, its not 100%, ie: new home owners, etc., but at least they have something to go on.

 

[Cruentus]

Much of this is hard to determine from watching the video, however, if a person acted like this before the invent of the tazer, they would simply be hauled off.

Now that we have this device, officers can use it to torture compliance out of a person. Imagine what widespread use of this would do to our freedoms?

That is where comparisons to Ghandi and MLK are warrented? How much more difficult would social movements like those have been if the authorities could torture compliance out of people?

If you are saying that allowing tazing not just for subject control (meaning that the subject is out of control and resisting, and a tazer would force compliance while reducing injury to the subject and officer) but to simply make people do what they are told (you didn't move when I said so or the way I wanted you to, so you got tazed) is a slippery slope towards human rights violations, then I would agree with you. If you are saying that under this logic, MLK could have been tazed for his opinions, or Ghandi could have been tazed for not leaving a public area fast enough, then I see your point.

That is why I think that a force continuum regarding tazers needs to be very clear.

But, if I understand what you are saying to be correct, then your not really COMPARING Ghandi toTabatabainejad, of whom I think we can agree was being an *** rather then a hero. Your just saying that being too loose with the force continuum regarding tazers could lead to a disaster.

I think I can agree with that.

 

[Cryozombie]

Upnorth:

I would rather be tazed with a taser than beat with a club. The taser pain goes away farily quickly, broken limbs last longer.

Mike,
I can fight pretty well, while handcuffed. Its part of our training. My instructor can slip them from behind his back to the front (hinged, mind you, not chained, that I suspect would be even easier) while he is falling and rolling. So, call me stupid, but *I* personally would never see restrained in cuffs as "helpless." None of us know what that kid knew, and with the officers onsite, they certainly didnt either.

Again, should they have been tasing him? How the **** do any of us know, we weren't there... but like I said, at least they didnt beat him and break his bones... somthing I know for a fact, if it were me in his place, I would be thankful for.

 

[Cruentus]

Mike,

It is interesting that you stopped reading before the next paragraph.

Witnesses disputed that account, saying that by this time Tabatabainejad had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack. When an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, the witnesses said, Tabatabainejad told the officer to let go, yelling, "Get off me" several times.​

Those Witnesses disputed accounts were mentioned in my 8:55 post.

You may be right ... the fact is we don't know. It sounds like the student was blowing off the Resident Advisor, but when the "real" police showed up he started to move. And in both articles, it is the police that put hands on the student, when he was apparently leaving.

I'm wondering if there is a bias toward the 'police can't be wrong'.

What we do know, as we all should have been able to see, is the student was tazed while handcuffed.

I don't think we can fault the police for putting their hands on the subject, at that point. If the police are called because someone (of whom they still don't know is a student or not because he produced no student ID) was refusing to leave, then they have the right to detain him to at least ask some questions. From what I have read so far, Tabatabainejad was hostile to begin with, and his hostile reactions escalated the situation. I don't blame the police for the escalation of the incident; I just think that once the subject was cuffed, the tazer should not have been the next part of the force continuum after verbal command.

 

[Cruentus]

The newer Tazers have tamper proof cameras built in that activate the minute it's pulled from the holster..This is too insure it's NOT used as a "torture device"...When taken to court the jury SEES how the subject the suspect/subject BEFORE he was tazed...Eliminates a lot of this "I-wasn't doing-anything-wrong-crap"...

This is great protection for the police as well as the perps.

 

[MJS]

This is great protection for the police as well as the perps.

I agree. Right up there with dash mounted cameras. I'm sure the use of these tools has cleared the air, so to speak, on alot of issues.

 

[Cryozombie]

Oh, and Upnorth, there is a BIG difference between a taser and a stun gun, and tho its hard to tell from the video it appears those were stun guns... Most Stun guns cause momentary pain and no lasting effects. You can pop somone with one, and they can stand immediatly back up... assuming you hit them somplace that can knock them down in the first place. Arms and legs are uncomfortable, but dont really DO anything except make the limb twitch.

I KNOW THIS FROM (PLENTY OF) EXPERIENCE.
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