Nitpick, I wont take it personally, I promise.

[drop bear]

My guess is that he bent over prematurely so as to not take one in the jewels for the sake of a demo. I've been on the recieving end of over eager performers looking to "make it real" for the crowd on their complacent dummies. Not saying definatively that this is the case, but would be my first guess.

That partner was Mr flinchy. I mean he had a helmet on and was running away from punches.

 

[LFJ]

My guess is that he bent over prematurely so as to not take one in the jewels for the sake of a demo. I've been on the recieving end of over eager performers looking to "make it real" for the crowd on their complacent dummies. Not saying definatively that this is the case, but would be my first guess.

Yes. That's a problem with doing free-flow performances. They might not be choreographed, so better than technique demos, but that doesn't make them realistic.

Because if you say, alright, you do whatever you want and I'm going to try to flank and counter, again the moves may not be preset, but it is still contrived, and the attacker knows you are supposed to be showing something, so they may unconsciously give you your opportunity to do it, as the guy did here.

If it's supposed to be free-flow, followed by a breakdown, they should actually do some free sparring, then review the video for times they effectively flanked the opponent, and break that down.

Something like the Gracie Breakdown videos where they review actual fights.

 

[Nobody Important]

That partner was Mr flinchy. I mean he had a helmet on and was running away from punches.

Could be that he is the appointed class whipping boy and now suffers from a complex. Or, he developed that flinch from one too many games of Punch Bug that resulted in PTSD.

 

[drop bear]

Could be that he is the appointed class whipping boy and now suffers from a complex. Or, he developed that flinch from one too many games of Punch Bug that resulted in PTSD.

I actually think too much of that sort of demo work. And especially the sort of spazzy demo stuff you see from time to time makes people flinchy.

 

[Nobody Important]

I actually think too much of that sort of demo work. And especially the sort of spazzy demo stuff you see from time to time makes people flinchy.

Probably right, LFJ laid it out pretty well in his above comment. It's hard to make a demo look realistic while at the same time trying to be complicit.

 

[drop bear]

Probably right, LFJ laid it out pretty well in his above comment. It's hard to make a demo look realistic while at the same time trying to be complicit.

 

[Nobody Important]

Lol, I get your point but not quite the same IMO.

 

[drop bear]

Lol, I get your point but not quite the same IMO.

Well scarily similar sometimes.

 

[Nobody Important]

Well scarily similar sometimes.

True. Funny that pro wrestling actually started off like MMA and evolved from real fighting to entertainment, because real grappling was drawn out and boring to watch. TCMA went the same route but decided to focus on solo routine expression devolving even further from reality than pro wrestling, yet believe the opposite. This really has nothing to do with your comment, just a controversial side quip to stir the pot, lol.

 

[Juany118]

If you are trying to flank and counter a taller guy. Don't stand right at their punching range.

People try to do what was done in that video in real time and it ends badly.

I think people believe that if you cut the distance short before you flank. You have more time to enter.

What happens is the other guy has no reason to go forwards. And just sits at that range punching your head off.

Which oddly enough is exactly what Sifu Keith explains in the other video

 

[drop bear]

Which oddly enough is exactly what Sifu Keith explains in the other video

Correct.

 

[Juany118]

Correct.

That first bit and the jamming is what I have always really liked about that video. I've actually always wondered why people think it is a good idea to get in close ASAP and then start moving tactically. Sometimes you MAY be forced to do that, as an example the person has a weapon and you want to get control before they can properly ready/deploy it, however that is a rarity.

Working angles properly you can flank and step in at the same time vs stepping in then flanking. This is one of the reasons why, when I train at home, I always make sure I do footwork drills. Even made this. It's patterned off of how we use the rattan baston in Kali at my school. I don't have a stack of "beater" baston lying around so I used PVC.

 

[drop bear]

That first bit and the jamming is what I have always really liked about that video. I've actually always wondered why people think it is a good idea to get in close ASAP and then start moving tactically. Sometimes you MAY be forced to do that, as an example the person has a weapon and you want to get control before they can properly ready/deploy it, however that is a rarity.

Working angles properly you can flank and step in at the same time vs stepping in then flanking. This is one of the reasons why, when I train at home, I always make sure I do footwork drills. Even made this. It's patterned off of how we use the rattan baston in Kali at my school. I don't have a stack of "beater" baston lying around so I used PVC.

There is more to it. If you don't make the guy work to hit you. Then he won't. He will hang back at his range. Take little movements forwards. Then just pop back out of range.

This extends the time it takes for you to close. Meaning you spend more time getting hit. And he has more time time to counter your rush in.

You really need to bait the taller guy to come forwards aggressively. Then you go forwards and close the distance.

 

[Juany118]

There is more to it. If you don't make the guy work to hit you. Then he won't. He will hang back at his range. Take little movements forwards. Then just pop back out of range.

This extends the time it takes for you to close. Meaning you spend more time getting hit. And he has more time time to counter your rush in.

You really need to bait the taller guy to come forwards aggressively. Then you go forwards and close the distance.

I agree entirely BUT regardless of the specific tactics employed footwork is incredibly important. I know more than a few people who study martial arts and when I have asked many of them "what footwork drills do you use for practice" all to often they rely on the drills they do with a compliant partner or the footwork that is already in a form/kata. What I like about the Kali footwork drills is that they are A. just foot work and B. can be done in an improvisational manner outside a traditional drill or rigid form/kata. There is also a similar dynamic in European fencing (Spanish sword in particular).

I have been wondering a couple things on this point.

1. is my experience simply limited so I have not experience directly (or through friends) an unarmed art that has such a focus on foot work? or
2. is this focus on footwork a product of a weapon focus? Because the weapon(s) is there you now have many more range options. Because of that your footwork has to be much more dynamic, contracting and expanding as the threat dictates.

 

[drop bear]

I agree entirely BUT regardless of the specific tactics employed footwork is incredibly important. I know more than a few people who study martial arts and when I have asked many of them "what footwork drills do you use for practice" all to often they rely on the drills they do with a compliant partner or the footwork that is already in a form/kata. What I like about the Kali footwork drills is that they are A. just foot work and B. can be done in an improvisational manner outside a traditional drill or rigid form/kata. There is also a similar dynamic in European fencing (Spanish sword in particular).

I have been wondering a couple things on this point.

1. is my experience simply limited so I have not experience directly (or through friends) an unarmed art that has such a focus on foot work? or
2. is this focus on footwork a product of a weapon focus? Because the weapon(s) is there you now have many more range options. Because of that your footwork has to be much more dynamic, contracting and expanding as the threat dictates.

We do heaps of it. I imagine it is important to people who dont want to bet smacked in training. So with a weapon you really dont want to get smacked. MMA gloves you really don't want to get smacked. Boxing kick boxing, so on.

Kuyokashin is a bit different as footwork works against you and they don't care if they get smacked. And other styles where they don't get smacked hard enough for it to matter.

 

[Vajramusti]

I agree entirely BUT regardless of the specific tactics employed footwork is incredibly important. I know more than a few people who study martial arts and when I have asked many of them "what footwork drills do you use for practice" all to often they rely on the drills they do with a compliant partner or the footwork that is already in a form/kata. What I like about the Kali footwork drills is that they are A. just foot work and B. can be done in an improvisational manner outside a traditional drill or rigid form/kata. There is also a similar dynamic in European fencing (Spanish sword in particular).

I have been wondering a couple things on this point.

1. is my experience simply limited so I have not experience directly (or through friends) an unarmed art that has such a focus on foot work? or
2. is this focus on footwork a product of a weapon focus? Because the weapon(s) is there you now have many more range options. Because of that your footwork has to be much more dynamic, contracting and expanding as the threat dictates.

----------------------------------------------------------
The Augustine Fong and Ho Kam Ming tradition closely based on Ip Man himself has lots of foot work all conceptually interlinked.
I have not seen such footwork elsewhere.

 

[Juany118]

So with a weapon you really dont want to get smacked.

Good point.

 

[Juany118]

----------------------------------------------------------
The Augustine Fong and Ho Kam Ming tradition closely based on Ip Man himself has lots of foot work all conceptually interlinked.
I have not seen such footwork elsewhere.

I don't know those traditions but my current TWC and Kali Sifu/Guro first studied under a student of Augustine Fong. I think, as we have become friends, this might be an interesting conversation over cigars one evening. Thank you for the information.