Ninjutsu good for security agent?

[Stef97]

Welcome along!! Nice to have you here x There would not be security training courses there more specific to the work than just martial arts?

Thank you !
I know there is some .. but the thing is, moste of them are for a limited time and cost A LOT. I do want to take some of them, but i'm also looking for something i can actually put my time in every week, something more long term! Thats why i thaught of martial arts.


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[Jenna]

Thank you !
I know there is some .. but the thing is, moste of them are for a limited time and cost A LOT. I do want to take some of them, but i'm also looking for something i can actually put my time in every week, something more long term! Thats why i thaught of martial arts.


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Yeah martial arts would probably have been my first thought too! Sending you wishes that you find some thing suitable.. let us know how it goes yes? xo

 

[Stef97]

Yeah martial arts would probably have been my first thought too! Sending you wishes that you find some thing suitable.. let us know how it goes yes? xo

Thank you, will let you know for sure !

 

[Charlemagne]

I'm in Quebec City. These places would probably be in Montreal, 3h from where i am.


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There are a few Jiu-Jitsu options that showed up when I search Quebec City, so you might consider checking them out. You could always drive to a Gracie Survival Tactics workshop and use it to supplement you regular training. There are other groups that do Law Enforcement defensive tactics which is Jiu-Jitsu based as well, so you might consider exploring your options to see what might be available.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I really do think that consideration of defensibility in a court-room setting would be something that I would want to consider if I was working in your occupation. You might also consider contacting your local police department and ask if they have someone they recommend. Just a thought. There are at least three orgaizations offering Jiu-Jitsu based defensive tactics training that are worth looking into.

Gracie Humaita - Law Enforcement | Gracie New Jersey Jiu Jitsu Academy
Royce Gracie Jiu-Jitsu - http://roycegracie.com/booking-info/g-r-a-c-i-e-law-enforcement-course/
Gracie Academy - Gracie Survival Tactics

 

[Chris Parker]

Thank you for your answer!
I feel like the school i'm looking at right now (bujinkan) would be good because the instructor has a large background in security and he came back from a trip to japan not long ago. I would be very interested in a mix of history (genuine school) and defense fo modern context. This school actually look like a good one. I've contected the guy, asking about the same question i did here, so now lets hope he'll have an honest response as yours.

Thanks again !

Bonjour, Stef.

That sounds pretty ideal for you, then! I've been involved in the "Ninjutsu" arts (Takamatsu-den) for about 25 years... the majority of physical usage I've needed has been the "security" style methods (although there have been a couple of other instances...), so I feel that it is certainly applicable!

Who are you looking to train under?

There are a few Jiu-Jitsu options that showed up when I search Quebec City, so you might consider checking them out. You could always drive to a Gracie Survival Tactics workshop and use it to supplement you regular training. There are other groups that do Law Enforcement defensive tactics which is Jiu-Jitsu based as well, so you might consider exploring your options to see what might be available.

Why? I'm actually serious here... Stef has not come along and asked in a general area, or in the Security area, for recommendations of what she should do, she has come to the Ninjutsu area to ask about Ninjutsu (specifically), and it's applicability from practitioners of the art.... and, thus far, I am the only actual practitioner to answer. She has also stated that she is not looking for courses, but a more rounded, long term study... she's not after a defensive tactics course here, nor a security course. She want's an art that she can dedicate time and effort to, that involves tradition and history, as well as applicability for her everyday life and work.

None of that invites suggesting anything here.

Look, I get the appeal of the Gracie's methods here... and I get why it's preferred in a number of LEO groups and areas... but it's not what was asked for.

I would also point out that informed opinion was requested... and your initial post didn't even spell the name of the art correctly.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I really do think that consideration of defensibility in a court-room setting would be something that I would want to consider if I was working in your occupation. You might also consider contacting your local police department and ask if they have someone they recommend. Just a thought.

And, realistically, and licensing body would ensure that such considerations are present at all times. The OP will be aware of the legal restrictions of her position (if it's anything like Australia, different levels of licence will give different restrictions... and different security positions will have different demands). I highly doubt that there is much need to ensure that the martial arts instructor need address this in any major way... nor is there any need to consult with the local police department, any more than any other occupation.

As an example, I have had numerous discussions with security personnel in a number of contexts over the years... and they were all very aware of what they were and were not permitted to do... a little surprisingly, many weren't even able to physically grab, touch, or restrain an offender (security guards for shopping expos etc), or were limited in their permissions to affect an arrest.

There are at least three orgaizations offering Jiu-Jitsu based defensive tactics training that are worth looking into.

Gracie Humaita - Law Enforcement | Gracie New Jersey Jiu Jitsu Academy
Royce Gracie Jiu-Jitsu - http://roycegracie.com/booking-info/g-r-a-c-i-e-law-enforcement-course/
Gracie Academy - Gracie Survival Tactics

Which, again, is not what the OP is asking for, or about.

 

[Charlemagne]

Which, again, is not what the OP is asking for, or about.

The OP had expressed interest in Jiu-Jitsu from my initial comment in regards to Jiu-Jitsu-based defensive tactics training, so I was following up with that. Had she not, I would have let it go and moved on.

 

[Stef97]

Bonjour, Stef.

That sounds pretty ideal for you, then! I've been involved in the "Ninjutsu" arts (Takamatsu-den) for about 25 years... the majority of physical usage I've needed has been the "security" style methods (although there have been a couple of other instances...), so I feel that it is certainly applicable!

Who are you looking to train under?



Why? I'm actually serious here... Stef has not come along and asked in a general area, or in the Security area, for recommendations of what she should do, she has come to the Ninjutsu area to ask about Ninjutsu (specifically), and it's applicability from practitioners of the art.... and, thus far, I am the only actual practitioner to answer. She has also stated that she is not looking for courses, but a more rounded, long term study... she's not after a defensive tactics course here, nor a security course. She want's an art that she can dedicate time and effort to, that involves tradition and history, as well as applicability for her everyday life and work.

None of that invites suggesting anything here.

Look, I get the appeal of the Gracie's methods here... and I get why it's preferred in a number of LEO groups and areas... but it's not what was asked for.

I would also point out that informed opinion was requested... and your initial post didn't even spell the name of the art correctly.



And, realistically, and licensing body would ensure that such considerations are present at all times. The OP will be aware of the legal restrictions of her position (if it's anything like Australia, different levels of licence will give different restrictions... and different security positions will have different demands). I highly doubt that there is much need to ensure that the martial arts instructor need address this in any major way... nor is there any need to consult with the local police department, any more than any other occupation.

As an example, I have had numerous discussions with security personnel in a number of contexts over the years... and they were all very aware of what they were and were not permitted to do... a little surprisingly, many weren't even able to physically grab, touch, or restrain an offender (security guards for shopping expos etc), or were limited in their permissions to affect an arrest.



Which, again, is not what the OP is asking for, or about.

Thanks Chris, you got it all. I appreciate other suggestions but i really think bujinkan would work for me. I talked to the teacher and he told me that most of his students were in the militay or law inforcement. He also said that the classes were about taking control of a individual (and not beating him or anything else).

 

[drop bear]

Which, again, is not what the OP is asking for, or about.

Op is asking about security work.

I spent twenty years as a security guard. Charlemagne is suggesting a reasonable approach. I mean I would still wrestle first. But that is nuances on a theme. I wouldn't Booj.

If OP wanted ninja for any other reason than than security work. Fine have at it. If OP already was a security guard and knew what the job looked like from a first person view. Also fine.

Otherwise people can only give the advice their own experience has shown will be practical and applicable. Or come up with some set of reasoning as to why they think a person should do a style.

If you want to attack other posters. I will shut you straight down on this as you dont have the personal experience to make a qualified judgement.

Argue you own case and leave other posters alone.

 

[Steve]

It's downright funny to me that Chris suggests BJJ, which isn't bad advise even though he admits to not training in it, but dickslaps Charlemagne for doing so, even though he appears to be very knowledgeable in it, because he doesn't train ninja. Makes zero sense.

 

[Charlemagne]

It's downright funny to me that Chris suggests BJJ, which isn't bad advise even though he admits to not training in it, but dickslaps Charlemagne for doing so, even though he appears to be very knowledgeable in it,

I do train the art, but calling me knowledgeable is probably a bit charitable... LOL

because he doesn't train ninja. Makes zero sense.

Meh. Everyone has a ninja phase. And, as we know, the proper time for that was the 1980's.

 

[Stef97]

I do train the art, but calling me knowledgeable is probably a bit charitable... LOL Meh. Everyone has a ninja phase. And, as we know, the proper time for that was the 1980's.

What do you mean by that?


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[Charlemagne]

What do you mean by that?


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It was a joke based upon the prevalence of Ninja movies in the 1980's. They and Bruce Lee movies started many a young man on their martial arts journey, only to later find out that the fantasy was mostly that, a fantasy.

 

[KangTsai]

When it's ninjutsu, all I can think of is disguise costumes, wall climbing, arson, poison, being vegan and sleeping on your left side.

 

[Charlemagne]

When it's ninjutsu, all I can think of is disguise costumes, wall climbing, arson, poison, being vegan and sleeping on your left side.

Don't forget Sho Kosugi

 

[Chris Parker]

The OP had expressed interest in Jiu-Jitsu from my initial comment in regards to Jiu-Jitsu-based defensive tactics training, so I was following up with that. Had she not, I would have let it go and moved on.

No, the OP asked about a specific martial art in regards to her needs and desires... when you mentioned the BJJ courses, she replied that, while she was interested in that, that was not what she was asking about here.

Op is asking about security work.

No, they're not. They're asking about a specific martial art in relation to security work... and the exact type of security work has not yet even been addressed or established.

I spent twenty years as a security guard. Charlemagne is suggesting a reasonable approach. I mean I would still wrestle first. But that is nuances on a theme. I wouldn't Booj.

Good for you. I've spent 25 years in these arts, done numerous security courses both inside and outside of my training there, engaged with many security guards in different ways, our seniors have worked security themselves (not something I was ever interested in, so I didn't), and more. So I'm going to put my background up against yours pretty happily... as mine covers both areas, rather than your uninformed views (based on your deeply inaccurate posts regarding our arts here).

If OP wanted ninja for any other reason than than security work. Fine have at it. If OP already was a security guard and knew what the job looked like from a first person view. Also fine.

"If the OP was already a security guard and knew what the job looked like from a first person view'? I take you back to the OP.... "I am currently a security agent"....

Otherwise people can only give the advice their own experience has shown will be practical and applicable. Or come up with some set of reasoning as to why they think a person should do a style.

Sure.

So my advice is based on knowing the art in question. As well as it's applicability. In other words, it's the only one here actually based on genuine knowledge of the question.

Once again, this is in the Ninjutsu section.... with a question about Ninjutsu.... so please tell me why you feel that you can make an assessment based on a complete lack of knowledge and experience in this art?

If you want to attack other posters. I will shut you straight down on this as you dont have the personal experience to make a qualified judgement.

Argue you own case and leave other posters alone.

There is no attack, dude. Asking for clarification is not an attack. Questioning why they're ignoring the actual question is not an attack.

Oh, and you'll "shut me down"? Please. Firstly, I do have the personal experience. Secondly, you don't have the skills to do anything close to it.

It's downright funny to me that Chris suggests BJJ, which isn't bad advise even though he admits to not training in it, but dickslaps Charlemagne for doing so, even though he appears to be very knowledgeable in it, because he doesn't train ninja. Makes zero sense.

Sigh.... really, Steve?

I recommend grappling approaches for security work... which includes BJJ, but also includes genuine Ninjutsu schools (which is the question of this thread), as listed in my first post. Secondly, I have trained in BJJ (Gracie)... which has been covered a number of times. And I hardly "dickslapped" Charlemagne... I pointed out that he was ignoring the actual questions of the OP.

I do train in Ninjutsu arts (Takamatsuden).
I have trained in BJJ.
I do know what I'm talking about.
If you think this makes "zero sense", then I suggest you reread and rethink.

 

[drop bear]

Once again, this is in the Ninjutsu section.... with a question about Ninjutsu.... so please tell me why you feel that you can make an assessment based on a complete lack of knowledge and experience in this art?

OK. From my 20 years of security experience I have pretty much seen the styles that work.

Guess what style never crops up in a security guard that can handle themselves.

That's right ninjutsu.

My complete lack of knowledge and experience comes from me never having seen ninjutsu effectively used anywhere. My experience is security. And ninjutsu basically does not exist in that environment.

There are styles that do work. The boxers, kickboxers, MMA, BJJ. Guys all do pretty well for themselves. But no ninjas.

So I could not recommend a system that I have never seen used effectively in 20 years of an environment I do have knowledge of and do have experience in.

I can only recommend what works.

Now when you get 20 years of experience using ninjutsu in the security industry. You are welcome to recommend it.

Until then considering a person may actually have to rely on their martial arts as a security guard. They should go with the styles that work.

 

[Steve]

Youve trained Gracie BJJ? what's your rank in BJJ?

 

[DaveB]

Normally they are tragic.

Another one from the scarecrow factory.

That wasn't a gooseneck hold.

 

[drop bear]

Another one from the scarecrow factory.

That wasn't a gooseneck hold.

it is a variation. I think any bent wrist is a gooseneck.

 

[Charlemagne]

No, the OP asked about a specific martial art in regards to her needs and desires... when you mentioned the BJJ courses, she replied that, while she was interested in that, that was not what she was asking about here.

Yes she did. And I pointed out that other martial arts have a legitimate program designed for those in her situation that may be worth looking into for a number of reasons, and she expressed interest. If she had not, I would have stopped there, but she did. As such, I provided additional information.

I pointed out that he was ignoring the actual questions of the OP.

I was not ignoring her questions. I was providing her with information that I believe will be more suited to her needs. You are free, of course, to disagree, but I would respectfully ask you to provide any sort of evidence of Ninjutsu being used successfully against a resisting opponent, or of programs that are designed for police-security officers which are based from Ninjutsu and which have survived legal tests in the courtroom. Perhaps they exist, but I certainly have not seen them. There are multiple examples of GJJ-based police tactics being used successfully by those in such work, and of programs which have been vetted from a legality standpoint.

Setting aside the question of effectiveness for a moment, you also completely ignore the reality of the legal issue, which is quite pertinent to someone in her situation. The first time (hopefully it never happens) that someone has to use martial arts training that goes beyond the defensive tactics training they are provided by their employer, any prosecutor or lawyer in their right mind is going to look into that.

I served on a jury in the recent past. The case involved a guy who had been detained by a security guard from a private company that contracted out to various businesses. When that security guard was on the witness stand, both the prosecutor and the defense lawyer spent a good deal of time asking about the training that the guard had received, and he was not even the person being charged with a crime.

If a security guard is the person being sued or charged with a crime, and there are dozens of easily imaginable scenarios where that could happen, the examination into their past and training is going to be far more invasive, and any training they might have personally sought out is going to be far more heavily scrutinized, than what I witnessed. If that guard is training in Ninjutsu, those lawyers are going to have a field day trotting out examples of people in black outfits with hoods on carrying all sorts of odd weapons in front of a jury. They are going to show videos of people learning how to make poisons, and booby traps, and smoke grenades, etc., all of which can be found by the most simple google search of Ninja, Ninjutsu, or Ninjitsu. It will take all of 5-minutes for them to find that stuff. All of the weird and annoying examples of Ninjutsu that people trot out to make fun of the art (and which I suspect annoy you as well) are going to be shown to the jury or judge to influence their decision making.

Far more prudent in my view to deliberately seek out training in something which can easily be demonstrated to work in that setting, and which is very defensible from the standpoint of legality. You, of course, are free to disagree, but I hope your disagreement will be more than telling me that I posted it in the wrong forum, or re-stating that I did not listen to the OP.