NHS implants birth control without consent or knowlege...

[MJS]

I'm sure we would throw a party and celebrate. Now for the real answer,it would be a time of hardship and heartbreak, no doubt. You suffer the consequences as best you can as you either put the baby up for adoption or try to raise the baby as a family. That is why as a parent you do talk to your kids about why it is such a bad idea to have a baby when you aren't even out of high school.

Thank you for your reply. Now, do you think that had the kids been properly educated, that would be a better option, rather than dealing with a possible unwanted pregnancy?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Actually Tez, I'm in agreement with Bill here.

Not his examples. But his point.

Lets reset though.

Simple question: Do you think this was right?

I don't, Bill doesn't, and I get the feeling you don't either.

 

[Tez3]

Actually Tez, I'm in agreement with Bill here.

Not his examples. But his point.

Lets reset though.

Simple question: Do you think this was right?

I don't, Bill doesn't, and I get the feeling you don't either.

I think posting up sick suggestions of things to do to boys is bang out of order.

If people read what I've written I have tried to give people the background to what goes on here as I would expect Americans to do the same for me about American issues. I have said it was a cack handed attempt by someone somewhere to try to do something for girls that in all probability, I'd say I'm 99.9% sure have little support from homes, this is based on what we know happens here. I'm 100% sure that these girls are already having sex, that they have asked for contraceptives and/or have discussed it with a health professional. Girls aren't stupid these days, they can get all the info they want off the internet. I have also said that while giving them contraceptives without their parents knowledge isn't the ideal what would people suggest instead. No one has given a sensible alternative to this. It's been 'I bring my children up correctly', 'why should good parents lose their rights' etc etc no one has thought about these girls, I mean properly thought and come up with a good, workable, acceptable answer to the problem of young girls having sex. I pointed out that we've had all the theories, teach sex, don't teach sex, preach abstinance, teach sex safe and we still haven't solved the problem. So instead of ranting about governments not being responsible tell me how we deal with this, if the tax payer doesn't who does? What is the practicable, workable answer to these girls who have sex, babies and more babies?
http://ehealthforum.com/health/topic38122.html


It's parents job to bring their children up properly however we know not all parents do.
We know that parenting isn't the concern of the government but we also know that some parents renege on their responsibilites.
We know that children shouldn't be having sex until the age of consent, 16 in the UK, later would be better still, it should be part of a loving relationship however we also know it doesn't always work like that.
We know that we have children who ae having babies at far too early an age.

So, what is the answer? Not the ideal, not how you bring your children up but how the health authorities in Southampton deal with these girls who are having sex at 13 and will get pregnant at some point, if only to get a house of their own if nothing else.

 

[Tez3]

Want to add that it's very easy to say what shouldn't be done, much harder to actually come up with a plan of what can be done to remedy situations.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

And in some countries, the suggestions that I and Bill made, that you found repulsive, are how those governments and government agencies handle similar problems. Some just kill the kids outright. Neither my or his suggestions were serious ones to the problem here. I get the feeling you thought they were, given the ire I'm seeing you vent here.

You asked my suggestion on what to do.

Hold the parents accountable.
Remove the children from those homes if that proves undoable.

But is this 'unaccountable' parents, or parents who say 'no' and the kids say 'yes' so this agency sided with the minor children over their parents?

Who decides what's best for your kids Tez? You or some agency?

In the US, we're allowed to homeschool our kids in some places. Germany doesn't like that and mandates all kids go through the government schools. I saw a case where they took the kids from a family by force who wanted to teach them at home. In Germany, the government thinks they know best. I disagree with that, so I'll never try to raise a family in Germany.

You asked how should the authorities handle these kids.

Hold the parents accountable.
Remove the children from those homes if that proves undoable.

But who says the authorities know better than the parents?

Part of this argument revolves around how the actions or lack there in of these parents offends you (and us).
But who are any of us to tell any of them how to raise their kids?

"It's parents job to bring their children up properly however we know not all parents do."

I agree, but define "Properly".

We know that parenting isn't the concern of the government but we also know that some parents renege on their responsibilites.

I agree. But define "responsibilities"

We know that children shouldn't be having sex until the age of consent, 16 in the UK, later would be better still, it should be part of a loving relationship however we also know it doesn't always work like that.

I agree, but I know people who were responsible at 14, and some who still aren't in their 80's. Age is a number, responsible is not.

We know that we have children who ae having babies at far too early an age."

I know. I agree. I don't like it either.

But here's the solutions:
1- educate them on safe sex methods and encourage their usage of them.
2- help them develop good self esteem, a positive self image and strong backbone to help resist pressure.
3- drug them
4- sterilize them
5- kill them

I disagree with 4 & 5. I agree with 1 & 2. 3 should be by informed choice by someone able to legally consent.

You and I will agree I think on 1,2,4 & 5.
We will disagree on who that someone able to consent is on #3.

I believe we are in much closer accord than it seems on a casual read.

 

[aedrasteia]

And in some countries, the suggestions that I and Bill made, that you found repulsive,
are how those governments and government agencies handle similar problems.

Serious question Bob, which ones?

Some just kill the kids outright.

again, where is this done?

Neither my or his suggestions were serious ones to the problem here. I get the feeling
you thought they were, given the ire I'm seeing you vent here.

Your un-serious responses to emotionally charged issues/questions are almost always impossible
to detect. Lots of posters use sarcasm frequently.
Sarcasm/satire/ridicule are impossible to detect w/certainty on the forum - there's no
way to hear tone of voice etc., no way to see the speaker.
So Can you come up with a universal Sarcasm icon we can use??
Sometimes I use Z~ to indicate sarcasm intended and NoZ~ to indicate not,
just to avoid these confusing assumptions. Can you help?

and please let us know which countries punish kids who have sex in these ways.
thanks

 

[billc]

MJS, of course, but who do you want explaining it to your children, you or a government agent. Forget about the bad parent scenario, what about you and your children, do you want your ability to deal with the sensitive issue of sex controlled by a politician who empowers a federal agency?

 

[MJS]

MJS, of course, but who do you want explaining it to your children, you or a government agent. Forget about the bad parent scenario, what about you and your children, do you want your ability to deal with the sensitive issue of sex controlled by a politician who empowers a federal agency?

Well, seeing that I've said it numerous times, and its either benig missed or ignored, I'll say it again. I do not care who teaches it. It could be a parent, a teacher, a nurse, a doctor, someone from your church....as long as someone teaches it.

The main issue some have is that someone other than a parent is doing it. Fine, I can accept ya'll dont like that. BUT....that tells me that someone should be doing it. My other concern was what happens when the parents dont think they should talk about it or need to talk about it.

As I said, I dont have kids, but if I did, my wife and I would do it, but I'm not going to get all up in arms either, if the school decides to talk about it in health class or sex ed.

As I said to Bob earlier, what strikes me as funny, is the fact that so many bash the govt/state run programs, yet those places are the first place people run to for free help, free this, free that. They're good enough then? Hmm..ok.

 

[ballen0351]

Tez there is no solution to the issue. The BC will stop the pregnancy but if these girls were already having unprotected sex it will do nothing to keep them from getting an STD which is much more serious then a pregnancy. A baby can be given up for an adoption an STD can kill you. If there was a solution to the problem then it would have been solved already. Much like all of lifes troubles there is no solution. The problem I have is as stated you can't just inject kids with things without letting a parent know. Its just not a good idea. There is no way to fix everyone.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

And in some countries, the suggestions that I and Bill made, that you found repulsive,
are how those governments and government agencies handle similar problems.

Serious question Bob, which ones?

Some just kill the kids outright.

again, where is this done?

Neither my or his suggestions were serious ones to the problem here. I get the feeling
you thought they were, given the ire I'm seeing you vent here.

Your un-serious responses to emotionally charged issues/questions are almost always impossible
to detect. Lots of posters use sarcasm frequently.
Sarcasm/satire/ridicule are impossible to detect w/certainty on the forum - there's no
way to hear tone of voice etc., no way to see the speaker.
So Can you come up with a universal Sarcasm icon we can use??
Sometimes I use Z~ to indicate sarcasm intended and NoZ~ to indicate not,
just to avoid these confusing assumptions. Can you help?

and please let us know which countries punish kids who have sex in these ways.
thanks

Which country?

Why, the poster child for human rights and freedom of course.
My own.

Forced sterilization in the US
http://civilliberty.about.com/od/gendersexuality/tp/Forced-Sterilization-History.htm

'They Cut Me Open Like I Was A Hog'
Elaine Riddick says she was sterilized at the age of 14. The state of North Carolina said Riddick was promiscuous and didn't get along well with others.

Nearly 7,600 men, women and children as young as 10 were sterilized under North Carolina's eugenics laws. While other state sterilization laws focused mainly on criminals and people in mental institutions, North Carolina was one of the few to expand its reach to women who were poor. Sterilization was seen as a way to limit the public cost of welfare. Social workers would coerce women to have the operation under threat of losing their public assistance.

http://www.npr.org/2011/06/22/137347548/n-c-considers-paying-forced-sterilization-victims

Then there's Meatball Land

Little known fact about Sweden, that supposed bastion of liberal idealism: If a Swedish transgender person wants to legally update their gender on official ID papers, a 1972 law requires them to get both divorced and sterilized first.

http://motherjones.com/mixed-media/2012/01/sweden-still-forcing-sterilization

Some other references
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Asia

As to killing kids for having sex:
Sudan, Somaililand, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Yemen, Iran were on a quick find, though all apply to same-sex relations.

 

[granfire]

Tez there is no solution to the issue. The BC will stop the pregnancy but if these girls were already having unprotected sex it will do nothing to keep them from getting an STD which is much more serious then a pregnancy. A baby can be given up for an adoption an STD can kill you. If there was a solution to the problem then it would have been solved already. Much like all of lifes troubles there is no solution. The problem I have is as stated you can't just inject kids with things without letting a parent know. Its just not a good idea. There is no way to fix everyone.

Having a baby, especially at a really young age can kill you, too.

 

[MJS]

Tez there is no solution to the issue. The BC will stop the pregnancy but if these girls were already having unprotected sex it will do nothing to keep them from getting an STD which is much more serious then a pregnancy. A baby can be given up for an adoption an STD can kill you. If there was a solution to the problem then it would have been solved already. Much like all of lifes troubles there is no solution. The problem I have is as stated you can't just inject kids with things without letting a parent know. Its just not a good idea. There is no way to fix everyone.

I agree that injecting them probably isn't the wisest thing. But that aside, I'm assuming the bigger picture is birth control in general. So, going on what you said, one would assume that if STDs are also a concern, then all the more reason for someone (again, I dont care who, as long as someone does it) to properly educate them on sex, STDs, the proper use of bc, etc.

 

[ballen0351]

I agree that injecting them probably isn't the wisest thing. But that aside, I'm assuming the bigger picture is birth control in general. So, going on what you said, one would assume that if STDs are also a concern, then all the more reason for someone (again, I dont care who, as long as someone does it) to properly educate them on sex, STDs, the proper use of bc, etc.

yes education is the only thing that can end the cycle and I don't care about that teach it in schools. But this wasn't about education it was about giving kids medication without a parent knowing. Parental consent aside they didn't even know. If you say hey this is what we are doing at least I know what's going on but for the parent not to know is shocking to me. Sending a letter home does not cut it for me. Letters get lost, kids hide them, ect. Contact should have been made or it should not have been done until then. The school all my kids go to have a wellness clinic that has a doctor there and they offer the flu shot for free to all kids but they just don't inject them they send home a letter a parent must sign it saying yes and then the kid gets the shot. No letter no shot.

 

[MJS]

yes education is the only thing that can end the cycle and I don't care about that teach it in schools. But this wasn't about education it was about giving kids medication without a parent knowing. Parental consent aside they didn't even know. If you say hey this is what we are doing at least I know what's going on but for the parent not to know is shocking to me. Sending a letter home does not cut it for me. Letters get lost, kids hide them, ect. Contact should have been made or it should not have been done until then. The school all my kids go to have a wellness clinic that has a doctor there and they offer the flu shot for free to all kids but they just don't inject them they send home a letter a parent must sign it saying yes and then the kid gets the shot. No letter no shot.

Would you object to condoms being handed out in schools? I ask this because if we stop and think about it, those are really not that difficult to get. Again, I'm with you on the injection.

 

[ballen0351]

Having a baby, especially at a really young age can kill you, too.

But your far more likely to die from an STD then child birth. Kids now days have babes at 11 and 12 here without complications. The AIDS rate in washington DC however is as high as it is in west africa.

 

[ballen0351]

Would you object to condoms being handed out in schools? I ask this because if we stop and think about it, those are really not that difficult to get. Again, I'm with you on the injection.

Id rather they go buy them like I did and feel embarrassed at the gas station just cause its a feeling you never forget but most school already have condoms anyway.

 

[billc]

I am not into giving reps. It is just something I don't do, however, who was the coward who gave me a negative rep and didn't leave a name. coward.

 

[Blade96]

Aside from the 'You'll understand if you have kids!' statement, very offensive to childfree people like myself who don't want kids, and aside from the obviously stupid idea of letting kids remain in the dark if their parents don't want to teach them, I think yes BC should be available to teens without their parents' consent.
My parents, while dorks in many ways, taught me and my bro all about sex. and they werent like No you cant go get a condom without our permission' or some such crap.

 

[ballen0351]

There is nothing offensive about saying having kids will change how you see things. It does it cahnges everything in your life. Can't explain it but it does. Ment no offense it just a fact.
as to the rest of your post BC is already available to all condoms and are available to anyone that wants them. That's not the point but again thanks for stopping by

 

[billc]

Hey blade 96. Nice to see you. Happy posting...