New Student: when will you quit?

[Diagen]

I find your remarks positively assumptuous, my good fellow!

How you would know this baffles me. Why you would post it baffles me even more.

It's not assumptuous I've seen different fighters and fights in different weight classes. Many boxing matches are like exhibition matches where they don't try very hard and gas out pretty easily if they do put in effort. Their punches are mostly jabs and unvigorous straights. Many punches miss. They treat it like a hobby. It's completely unprofessional and I mean that as a personal criticism of the fighters.
Very sad state of things. Very unvigorous. They go for win via points and that's just way too gamified, no reason to have power then. Technique often isn't that good either. Overall unprofessional.

MMA has some good athletes, good power. Wins are generally by knockout or submission TKO. It's doing alright.

A mix. There are many people here, yourself included but not just yourself, that are typing out paragraphs unrelated to when/why new students quit martial arts. Which is fine, but made me laugh at this statement, so wanted to point out this statement both for yourself, and to emphasize for others.

Ah but the original point is that most places aren't training right, so why would they have many people going there.

 

[Buka]

If they are not good at 10 different metrics you start to run out of metrics though. There are 7 in the kneesovertoesguy stuff, and he talks about a few more (split squat, sissy squat, nordic curl, foot lift). Then there are regular calisthenics stuff to consider. Well the coach I'm linking (kneesovertoes) has a mobility and strength check for the upper body as well that he's put his age old granny on and she's rehabbed from it to full mobility and function with quality of life strength.

I'm bring a whole perspective here.



I'm just repeating what I've been saying this whole damn time while people are arguing with me that I'm wrong or naive. I haven't assumed a damn thing.

His posts:
"This is why serious martial artists have a good, in-person, instructor, and so don't have to piece together from scratch. It is not possible for someone without considerable formal training to correct themselves. You don't know what you don't know, and we tend to gloss over bad habits that creep in over the years. This is true even for experienced black belts. That is the value of an instructor that can provide feedback."
"My karate training, with some weight training, has allowed me to "keep dunking." I could not have reached the level I'm at from anything youtube has to offer. I've learned from the best so have no need for the inferior route. "

"How did Mike train? For one, he mostly trained in the basics. Not what you want to think about I'm sure, like every new student at some dojo you don't want to imagine that "martial arts training" is a lot of physical exercise and not that flashy. Does someone need to be in the room to tell Mike Tyson how to do a neck bridge? How to jump rope? Did he need some world renown expert to tell him to throw a medicine ball at the ground and do it over and over again? Nope. His form sure as hell didn't need correction. Everything about Mike Tyson and most fighters is basic training. Anyone can knock you out without much technique, just physical power and speed."

And his reply:
"You are embarrassing yourself with your posts. Your ignorance is overwhelming. You have no credibility with most everyone here, including Mike Tyson if he were to read your trash. Please leave us out of your fantasy Youtube world and get some therapy."

0 dialogue, 0 reasoning, completely dismissive. Dude has no way to think about why he believes what he does, cannot respond to basic assertions about reality. Of course Mike Tyson trained mostly in physical conditioning. He got up every morning to run. He did tons of athletic training. Whether or not he uses good footwork or peekaboo, the heavy bag is building up his power. No matter what, he gets tougher and can learn from every fight/ match he goes through.

Where am I being assumptuous? Where is all dialogue being thrown out because I'm directly confronting their beliefs?

Forgive me for being curious, since you learned from the best, who did you learn from?

 

[Diagen]

Forgive me for being curious, since you learned from the best, who did you learn from?

Looking at pro fighters for one. Looked at karate, muay thai, boxing, some baguazhang, judo, bjj, sumo, some others. Seen some instructor's videos online that are a bit individualistic as well, you can find a number of them shared on this forum.
In terms of training the body generally there are a lot of big names like Mark Rippetoe, Jim Wendler, the kneesovertoesguy whatever his name is, Olympic weightlifter training is semi-public such as the Bulgarian method (different methodologies here, suggesting that different training can get you similar results) and Chinese training is semi-public they do stuff like round back deadlift for flexible back strength and body build to prevent injury especially the arms and back of shoulders and scapula, as well as different weighted stretches like you see shown in the 7 mobility checklist video from kneesovertoesguy. Steve Justa is good, very impressive stuff, Brooks Kubik good stuff very common sense as well, Paul Anderson is very good, greatest backlift and hip lift around. Olde Strongmen like Zass Alexander and The Mighty Atom had good stuff, they're all "overcoming isometric" strength, partial lifts to get the load through the bones and tendons essentially and steel bending or steel chain breaking with body parts. Steel bending has a very good effect. Modern strongman training is basically historical and very good, all very strong. Charles Poliquin is a big Olympic coach for multiple sports and is good. I've picked up a lot over the past decade. Dragondoor.com has some good articles on isometrics you can check out too. Labor training is a good concept and you find people working out according to that philosophy, similar to Steve Justa and Brooks Kubik's training philosophy I guess and it works.

All in all I have the big picture but don't train too much, but the peak athletes of each field have very clear and objective performance that those that don't do the research, don't look at the training philosphy and methods, just don't have the insight to come to the same conclusions as I. If you look at each of these athletes you will see amazing feats and name drops to others with similarly great feats that are unique to their training methods based on their differing training philosophy.

 

[Diagen]

What's most important is to keep up mental pressure in your training and your thinking about training, so that you train in the best way possible. You can't develop mind-body and become an absolute unit with incredible physical and martial prowess without incredible mental strength and presence. Keep up the mental pressure.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

What's most important is to keep up mental pressure in your training and your thinking about training, so that you train in the best way possible. You can't develop mind-body and become an absolute unit with incredible physical and martial prowess without incredible mental strength and presence. Keep up the mental pressure.

You are clearly an absolute unit.

 

[Diagen]

You are clearly an absolute unit.

If you want to confront anything I say go ahead. Success isn't easy but it's dead simple and straightforward.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Ah but the original point is that most places aren't training right, so why would they have many people going there.

Which is a relevant point. A lot of the discussion, however, is not.

 

[_Simon_]

Forgive me for being curious, since you learned from the best, who did you learn from?

He learned from YouTube. True story.

 

[Flying Crane]

He learned from YouTube. True story.

That is certainly the impression I got from his response. I didn’t see anything that indicated he actually worked with anyone. Just looked at stuff.

 

[Diagen]

Which is a relevant point. A lot of the discussion, however, is not.

No one wants to respond to what I'm saying because it falls outside their narrow understanding of what I'm saying.
Basically they don't want my point to elaborate itself through engagement with what I'm saying.

 

[Diagen]

That is certainly the impression I got from his response. I didn’t see anything that indicated he actually worked with anyone. Just looked at stuff.

I only get this kind of yawning dismissal from those who are established but have no way of engaging with what I'm saying without revealing their own failures and shortcomings.

If you want to be the best then why not talk about how to become such. If you don't want to become the best then why do you call yourself a martial artist? Like gpseymour said himself in another thread, it makes you a hobbyist.

 

[Flying Crane]

I only get this kind of yawning dismissal from those who are established but have no way of engaging with what I'm saying without revealing their own failures and shortcomings.

If you want to be the best then why not talk about how to become such. If you don't want to become the best then why do you call yourself a martial artist? Like gpseymour said himself in another thread, it makes you a hobbyist.

So is my assessment incorrect? Have you actually worked with anyone?

 

[Diagen]

So is my assessment incorrect? Have you actually worked with anyone?

Do you owe your commitment to martial arts to your martial arts instructor?

 

[Flying Crane]

Do you owe your commitment to martial arts to your martial arts instructor?

By your continued evasion of a direct answer, I can only assume that you have not.

Let the record show that @Diagen refuses to answer the question, allowing for a presumptive “no”. He has not trained with anyone.

 

[Diagen]

By your continued evasion of a direct answer, I can only assume that you have not.

Let the record show that @Diagen refuses to answer the question, allowing for a presumptive “no”. He has not trained with anyone.

It is true that I train with no one. I have stated this in other places, for the record.

 

[Tez3]

It is true that I train with no one. I have stated this in other places, for the record.

Actually, why are you here?

 

[Flying Crane]

It is true that I train with no one. I have stated this in other places, for the record.

And the other part of this answer that you continue to duck: you never have.

 

[Diagen]

And the other part of this answer that you continue to duck: you never have.

My bad I didn't word it correctly. I NEVER have trained with ANYONE besides ~10 instances of sparring with friends. Not ducking anything.

 

[Diagen]

Actually, why are you here?

Does this have to do with the lack of martial arts instructor?

I'm trying to bring knowledge, then outdo those that do not use it by using said knowledge. In the end the culture should evolve and that's my goal.

 

[Flying Crane]

My bad I didn't word it correctly. I NEVER have trained with ANYONE besides ~10 instances of sparring with friends. Not ducking anything.

Thank you for the belated honesty.

So to echo @Tez3, why do you believe you can come here to a martial arts forum, with zero martial arts training yourself, and “school” a bunch of martial arts folks? People here who have decades in training, likely decades more than you have been alive in many cases. We can see through your nonsense. This isn’t difficult. Why do you do it?

If you are genuinely interested in martial arts, then this is a place where you can find a lot of informed opinions and good information, even among those of us who often disagree about things. But you need to drop the nonsense and start listening and you can then learn something. If you cannot do that, you will only find derision.