New faces of Taekwondo

[IcemanSK]

As mentioned in another thread, the "usual" faces of yesterday aren't popping up in TKD circles anymore & are being replaced by new faces. Who do you see as the "new faces" of Taekwondo?

 

[terryl965]

All I see are money hungry individuals, looking to make every single person pay outrages pricing for certificate and such. The new people coming up in the major orgs are just like this, hell the kukkiwon is now going to be changing the poomsae again because our new President want to, to match what his Kwon would like to see.

I see TKD as being nothing more then a sport in less than twenty year because that is all these young people know is that, there will be some real TKD schools out there but like Karate the sport will over run the others.

We have to choose run with the horse and be like them or die by being true to the Art and the past.

When I say die I'm talking Dojaang here, without enough people these schools will have to close up.

 

[exile]

All I see are money hungry individuals, looking to make every single person pay outrages pricing for certificate and such. The new people coming up in the major orgs are just like this, hell the kukkiwon is now going to be changing the poomsae again because our new President want to, to match what his Kwon would like to see.

I see TKD as being nothing more then a sport in less than twenty year because that is all these young people know is that, there will be some real TKD schools out there but like Karate the sport will over run the others.

We have to choose run with the horse and be like them or die by being true to the Art and the past.

When I say die I'm talking Dojaang here, without enough people these schools will have to close up.

I think there's more grounds for optimism than that, Terry. Iceman's question is an interesting one because it suggests that the current crop of international TKD competitive stars and sport gurus don't actually have much of a profile in the general TKD community (as opposed to the people who are dedicated competitors and are happy pursuing tournament success). I think we're actually on the cusp of a revival of interest in old-school TKD, and the leaders of that movement haven't emerged here (as vs. the situation in the UK, where a new generation of combat-dedicated TKDists seems to be emerging in the very supportive context of the British Combat Association and its 'working groups'). But I believe it will come, and with it those new names that Iceman was wondering about...

 

[crushing]

I guess I just don't pay enough attention to the national and international scene to be able to answer Iceman's question. But, reading Terry's post has me appreciating the organization I am in and exile's post gives me some confidence and optimism going forward.

 

[IcemanSK]

I wanted to keep my question open ended enough to include any "new face" that folks saw as important. But exile brings up a good point. Who are the next leaders who will continue is the traditional ways that Gen. Choi, Eternal GGM Lee, GM Uhm, etc started?

 

[Kacey]

I wanted to keep my question open ended enough to include any "new face" that folks saw as important. But exile brings up a good point. Who are the next leaders who will continue is the traditional ways that Gen. Choi, Eternal GGM Lee, GM Uhm, etc started?

I know very little about the WTF, and the only members of the WTF with whom I am familiar are on this board. In the ITF and its offshoots, however, I see some people who are maintain a high standard for both instructors and students, but many of them are currently independents who have 1 or 2 small schools. As the shakedown following Gen. Choi's death continues, and those small groups affiliate and/or combine, I see hope in their skills and standards.

 

[IcemanSK]

I know very little about the WTF, and the only members of the WTF with whom I am familiar are on this board. In the ITF and its offshoots, however, I see some people who are maintain a high standard for both instructors and students, but many of them are currently independents who have 1 or 2 small schools. As the shakedown following Gen. Choi's death continues, and those small groups affiliate and/or combine, I see hope in their skills and standards.

Kacey, who are some of the "movers & shakers" in the Chang Hon branch of TKD? I would imagine we can safety add Master Arnold & GM Lang to the list. Who else?

 

[terryl965]

Exile I can see new organization stating up here in America and they may bring some great new blood to TKD but for the most part all of the new faces are sport TKD'ers and the outlook for such is darken alot. I sure do hope we find some people who would like to start a new begining here in the US.

I may go back to the old ITF way of things they are putting together some great Little orgs. out there and it maybe time to make the switch. I would need to really think everything though before I did.

They seem to have a better outlook than the Kukkiwon or the WTF right now.

 

[Kacey]

Kacey, who are some of the "movers & shakers" in the Chang Hon branch of TKD? I would imagine we can safety add Master Arnold & GM Lang to the list. Who else?

The ones I know, beside them? GM Mel Steiner, certainly, also Master John Tompkins (the website I had for him seems to have been inactivated); there are others, but I'm not sure how involved they are on the national and/or international stage.

The person to ask would be Mr. Arnold; he knows a lot more of these people personally - while I've met some of them, I don't really know them, or how involved their organizations are beyond their local level.

 

[exile]

Exile I can see new organization stating up here in America and they may bring some great new blood to TKD but for the most part all of the new faces are sport TKD'ers and the outlook for such is darken alot. I sure do hope we find some people who would like to start a new begining here in the US.

I think they're there, Terry. Thing is, there's a lag period involved: the ones who are going to be major players in this new wave are still unknown; they will emerge in the future.

I may go back to the old ITF way of things they are putting together some great Little orgs. out there and it maybe time to make the switch. I would need to really think everything though before I did.

They seem to have a better outlook than the Kukkiwon or the WTF right now.

You see?—you're make my point for me perfectly! This is just the sort of thing I was talking about. Rest assured that if you're thinking along these lines, there are plenty of other school owners and master instructors thinking that way too. What you're saying here is exactly what I anticipate happening...

 

[azmyth]

my school studies old style ITF TKD...

has done so since 1978.

 

[YoungMan]

The revival of "old school" Tae Kwon Do will be done behind the scenes, quietly, by people who would never think of appearing in a magazine. The best change happens from people you've never heard of.

 

[Kacey]

The revival of "old school" Tae Kwon Do will be done behind the scenes, quietly, by people who would never think of appearing in a magazine. The best change happens from people you've never heard of.

A very good point. :asian:

 

[IcemanSK]

The revival of "old school" Tae Kwon Do will be done behind the scenes, quietly, by people who would never think of appearing in a magazine. The best change happens from people you've never heard of.

I think by & large you are probably correct. And yet, the current issue of TKDTimes has an interview with GM Lee, Byng Moo, who is an "old school" legend that few have heard of. I think if we hear more from the few folks that are still around like him, "old school TKD" will see a revival because more TKD folks who don't fit into the Olympic mold will be able to point to something that resonates with them.

 

[exile]

The revival of "old school" Tae Kwon Do will be done behind the scenes, quietly, by people who would never think of appearing in a magazine. The best change happens from people you've never heard of.

Probably very true, and another reason not to be troubled by the lack of new 'big names'. Basic change from the bottom up is what sticks, in the end.

 

[foot2face]

What does everyone mean by "old school" TKD? If you're talking about 70s pre-Olympic TKD than I'm 100% with you but if you mean Kwan era TKD than I'm not. Going back to the days when TKD was just Koreanized Karate will undo all the progress made to the system, earacing the knowledge and experience gained during the 50s and 60s. The knowledge and experience that led to the development of a singular supremely effective TKD system. I can't speak about other organizations, but there are masters within the KKW who still teach the pre-Olympic TKD. As mentioned above, they tend to be quite professionals who lack political ambitions, limiting their influence within the organization. I have herd some rumors that the KKW has plans to focus their attention on the 70s era TKD fighting system. I hope this is true, if not I fear my style will completely disappear, being watered down to an impractical sport on one end and devolving back to a JMA on the other.

 

[terryl965]

The revival of "old school" Tae Kwon Do will be done behind the scenes, quietly, by people who would never think of appearing in a magazine. The best change happens from people you've never heard of.

Well then forget you ever heard of me

 

[azmyth]

I get confused sometimes as to the differences between WTF and ITF. In modern standards. The school I go to, I believe is ITF...

we do Chon Ji. Dan Gun, Dosan (sp) on up...and we do a huge variety of kicks and striking. Our teacher preaches keeping our hands up when we spar, and we spar with moderate contact. No hands to the head. (they used to, but not anymore). We do punch however, so its not just a kicking spree... and we do keep our hands up when we spar much like a boxer/kickboxer would. We don't do point sparring, but we do continous sparring. For example, 2 students will spar continuously for 3 minutes. The school opened in 1978 and other than the no hands to the head.. he's been teaching the same way all this time. He's 5th dan, and I believe he's probably in his 60s and is in amazing shape for his age (i'm in my 20s and he wears me out sparring)

What kind of school is this? I don't think its a mcdojo.. it doesn't cost alot (35 a month). He does have contracts though, but I think its more because of the town we live in than anything (can't trust anyone to pay fees like they should) no hidden fees. costs 15.00 per testing. Only gear I must buy is shin, instep, and forearm pads, mouthpiece. You can buy a cup from him or get one yourself. He provides all other gear, but I do have my own helmet and chest protector, of my own choosing. I also have a full set of foam dipped gear but I don't use it in class and I bought that own my own. He proves everything you need. So the total costs are like 25 bucks for the pads and mouthpiece and maybe 5 bucks for the cup. Our testings are always done on Saturdays and no class is held those days. Parents, friends, siblings, are all invited to attend and watch. Usually our instructor will invite a special guest to help judge (usually a korean expert he has come up in ranks with). Our testings are very strenuous. I usually feel sick afterwards (this is a good thing). Usually instead of letting someone test and failing them, he can pretty much tell who will pass and fail from the get go, and he just holds those who might not quite be there just yet back until the next go. Our ranks are: white, yellow, yellow/black stripe, green, green/black stripe, blue, blue/blackstripe, red, red/black stripe, black/red stripe, 1st dan. He used to use colored tape for the in between ranks, but changed over to belts a few years ago. I believe this is either how the ITF ranks go now, or its pretty close.

thoughts?

 

[Kacey]

That is how ITF ranks go, and that is the Ch'ang H'on tul (pattern) set, so that does appear to be your background.

Some differences, however:
- the ITF does both continuous and point sparring
- the ITF allows hand techniques to the head, so hands are held up to protect the head as well as the body
- the ITF mandates hand and foot pads, mouthguards and cups, or did when we left in 1997 - we started requiring headgear after that, but I can't speak for whether the ITF requires them at this point
- sparring rounds are 2 minutes, except in some final rounds, where the rounds may be 3 minutes - or they used to be, anyway

I don't think that any of those differences will determine whether this class is ITF or WTF, however; plenty of WTF classes practice the Ch'ang H'on tuls, the WTF does not allow hand techniques to the head (as I understand it, anyway), the WTF does use hogu (body protectors), and promotes Olympic sparring.

Is this a McDojo? It doesn't seem to be; the fees are reasonable, and contracts are not an automatic sign of a McDojo in the absence of other indicators.

 

[terryl965]

You know Iceman you ask Kacey who would be in the ITF, after meeting DArnold not a Master yet, OK. We will leave that one alone for a few more days. I believe he and the org. he is with is going in the right direction so I would have to put him in thew spotlight for the time being.