Need Some Advice on Sparring

[Instructor]

Personally, I think that while that might have been the internal justification for training in Okinawa, in practical reality, I don't know how much it was really used, against ruffians or anyone else.




I think more and more martial arts are going in this direction, no contact, practicality not a factor for training. I think most of my generation (and yours) took up the martial arts for "self defense" or like I like to say for "self offense" purposes, but today's generation is different, just like how you are different from your parents.

Not us in Hapkido we are headed the other direction.

 

[puunui]

Not us in Hapkido we are headed the other direction.

ok

 

[dancingalone]

I don't know even about that. I am just thinking about the Okinawan people in general being very calm and non argumentative and not very physically aggressive. There is a somewhat large Okinawan population here. In fact, one of my oldest friends from the first grade has Okinawan blood.

Yes, they are a friendly people. Yet how do we reconcile that with the same people who created/adapted karate and kobudo from the lessons they took from the Chinese? Okinawan karate/kobudo taught in full is NOT a nice form of physical exercise. It's a violent method to hurt, maim, and kill other people. Even sanitized karate will do all those same things, though perhaps less efficiently so.

 

[puunui]

Yes, they are a friendly people. Yet how do we reconcile that with the same people who created/adapted karate and kobudo from the lessons they took from the Chinese? Okinawan karate/kobudo taught in full is NOT a nice form of physical exercise. It's a violent method to hurt, maim, and kill other people. Even sanitized karate will do all those same things, though perhaps less efficiently so.

Good question. I've thought about that over the years. One possible answer is that there is a class structure in Okinawan culture, or at least there was, with the higher more educated people were seemingly the ones who studied martial arts, similar to Japan. So it might have been something along those lines. But for self defense? I think that is hard to push through, for Okinawa, Japan or Korea. What we are then left with is the the martial arts were studied not for practical or self defense reasons, but for other reasons such has for health, etc. That is a hard explanation as well, if you think about it. Most of the common people of Okinawa were farmers or fishermen. I don't really think that farmers or fishermen needed to train in the martial arts for exercise or health purposes. There are some Okinawan martial arts scholars here, maybe I should go ask them what their opinion is on this.

 

[dancingalone]

Good question. I've thought about that over the years. One possible answer is that there is a class structure in Okinawan culture, or at least there was, with the higher more educated people were seemingly the ones who studied martial arts, similar to Japan. So it might have been something along those lines. But for self defense? I think that is hard to push through, for Okinawa, Japan or Korea. What we are then left with is the the martial arts were studied not for practical or self defense reasons, but for other reasons such has for health, etc. That is a hard explanation as well, if you think about it. Most of the common people of Okinawa were farmers or fishermen. I don't really think that farmers or fishermen needed to train in the martial arts for exercise or health purposes. There are some Okinawan martial arts scholars here, maybe I should go ask them what their opinion is on this.

You're very much correct in this respect. Most of the famous practitioners from the Shuri-te lines like 'Bushi' Matsumura, 'Anko' Itosu, and Chotoku Kyan were members of the Pechin class, the warriors of the Ryukyu Islands if you will.

If you want to research self-defense practices and their need on Okinawa, it might be more instructive to look at the Uechi-ryu and Goju-ryu lines which had much less of an aristocratic heritage to them. Although Miyagi, Chojun came from a wealthy merchant family, Uechi, Kanbun's family were radish farmers.

 

[lifespantkd]

There are some Okinawan martial arts scholars here, maybe I should go ask them what their opinion is on this.

I would be interest in what you could find out!

Thank you,

Cynthia

 

[bugatabugata]

Hmmm, interesting stuff. Do you guys have any recommendations on good (legitimate) history/philosophy books on tkd?([I've read "Ancient Wisdom for the Modern Warrior" and "A Killing Art.")

As to the other issue -- yup, if I'm honest with myself, I started tkd mostly for self-defense -- to learn how to fight "properly." But, I've accepted the sabum as the one to take me to black belt (hopefully, eventually), and, if I have to get creative to find contact sparring opportunities, so be it. [He's also grown to be a mentor and friend, and I think this "no contact" business is more a function of the school than of him as a teacher (lots of kids; a good chunk of the adults are fairly ambivalent about sparring.)]

 

[bugatabugata]

Just wanted to give you guys a couple of quick updates: a) Belt exam was an awesome (if unexpected) success -- got double-promoted, woot!; I got me a spanking new Blue Belt! (Still kind of suck at that jump back kick though...); b) The master is starting two more classes just for sparring on Wednesdays and Fridays!!! Apparently, he's been meaning to do it for a while and wasn't sure if people would be interested; c) I'm going to that tourney in May that I told you about; d) After all the build-up in my head, I came down hard with the flu that's been going around the office on Tuesday, so missed one practice and the first two sparring classes Sooo, I feel like crap and am going through tkd withdrawal. Alright -- vent over! Hopefully will be able to make it to practice tomorrow, and we'll see what happens from here on out. Thanks for all the good advice!

 

[bugatabugata]

Alrighty, last, last update, I swear! The first sparring practice was today and, um, it turns out that I have been a massive overconfident tool after all! Going to competitions, ha ha, how cute! A couple of the guys from the pro training camp showed up... Everything hurts, I've got bleeding blisters on top of my regular callouses, and generally feel like shyte. Turns out I'm far from the legendary bada** that I thought I was. Well, back to the drawing board. Will definitely keep going to the "kicked up" practices, until hopefully I stop sucking a bit less, whenever that might be.

 

[Cyriacus]

Alrighty, last, last update, I swear! The first sparring practice was today and, um, it turns out that I have been a massive overconfident tool after all! Going to competitions, ha ha, how cute! A couple of the guys from the pro training camp showed up... Everything hurts, I've got bleeding blisters on top of my regular callouses, and generally feel like shyte. Turns out I'm far from the legendary bada** that I thought I was. Well, back to the drawing board. Will definitely keep going to the "kicked up" practices, until hopefully I stop sucking a bit less, whenever that might be.

Thats called a Humbling Experience, Good Sir.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Alrighty, last, last update, I swear! The first sparring practice was today and, um, it turns out that I have been a massive overconfident tool after all! Going to competitions, ha ha, how cute! A couple of the guys from the pro training camp showed up... Everything hurts, I've got bleeding blisters on top of my regular callouses, and generally feel like shyte. Turns out I'm far from the legendary bada** that I thought I was. Well, back to the drawing board. Will definitely keep going to the "kicked up" practices, until hopefully I stop sucking a bit less, whenever that might be.

Happens to us all. Think of it this way. You learn more from a loss than a victory.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Alrighty, last, last update, I swear! The first sparring practice was today and, um, it turns out that I have been a massive overconfident tool after all! Going to competitions, ha ha, how cute! A couple of the guys from the pro training camp showed up... Everything hurts, I've got bleeding blisters on top of my regular callouses, and generally feel like shyte. Turns out I'm far from the legendary bada** that I thought I was. Well, back to the drawing board. Will definitely keep going to the "kicked up" practices, until hopefully I stop sucking a bit less, whenever that might be.

There's always gonna be someone that'll kick your ***. I remeber my first class under my current instructor, I got paired up with a 4th dan who didnt look like anything special. Our instructor had said we could pad up if we wanted but I chose not to (I rarely wear pads, I hate them and most people I train with dont wear them). Anyway, we were about to spar and the 4th dan said to me "you're not wearing pads", to which I said "nah" and he replied "geez thats bad luck" and he proceeded to tear me apart, there were kicks and punches coming from everywhere. I could barely even remenber what had happened by the time I got home with ice packs all over my body. You learn heaps from those nights.

 

[StudentCarl]

Welcome to the game. Isn't pain a great teacher?