Need help finding a school that teach japanese jujutsu or combo of japanese jujutsu and aikido.

[moonhill99]

You firstly need to do one thing… forget everything you think you know (frankly, it's nothing), and actually listen to what you're being told. So far, none of what you've said even makes sense.

People teach the art they know and are able to teach… if that's a modern system, it's a modern system. If it's a classical one, it's a classical one… it has nothing to do with who is interested in teaching what… it's about what they're actually teaching.

The rest of your post is just as off-base, bluntly.

Chis are you saying for school in US to be Japanese jiu jitsu school the instructor would have go to Japan and train there than come back and set up school. It not some thing they can study in US.

Is it that US lacks knowledge to educate the person.

I said the instructors don't seem interested teaching the old classic one

Is it some thing more complex that the instructor cannot learn it in US and would have to go to Japan and learn it there and come back to the US. That it would be hard to find instructor teaching old Japanese jiu jitsu school in US.

 

[Chris Parker]

What???

Dude… I have no idea what the hell you're talking about… nothing anyone has said in any way supports this bizarre series of ideas you have.

In order… No. I'm saying that for a school in the US to be teaching Japanese Jujutsu, it needs to be teaching Japanese Jujutsu, not some other art. That's it.

No, it's nothing to do with any level of "education" (I don't even know what you mean by that).

I read what you wrote… and it's completely off base. It has nothing to do with any interest, any more than saying a boxing coach not teaching tennis is because they don't seem interested in it… a martial arts instructor can only teach the art they've learnt. It doesn't matter what level of interest someone has if they haven't learnt it in the first place.

And, as for the end, wow, no!!! Dude, get this straight… Japanese Jujutsu is Jujutsu that is from Japan. That's it. That's the whole criteria. And, honestly, if you can't find any Japanese Jujutsu around you (and frankly, I don't think you'd recognise it even if you did), that just means that there isn't any around you… nothing else.

Again…. you really, really have to forget anything and everything you think you know. Bluntly, you don't know a thing. Listen to what you're being told. And stop trying to put your own fractured and incorrect beliefs onto what we say… nothing you have said is even close to correct.

 

[moonhill99]

Dude… I have no idea what the hell you're talking about… nothing anyone has said in any way supports this bizarre series of ideas you have.

In order… No. I'm saying that for a school in the US to be teaching Japanese Jujutsu, it needs to be teaching Japanese Jujutsu, not some other art. That's it.

No, it's nothing to do with any level of "education" (I don't even know what you mean by that).

I read what you wrote… and it's completely off base. It has nothing to do with any interest, any more than saying a boxing coach not teaching tennis is because they don't seem interested in it… a martial arts instructor can only teach the art they've learnt. It doesn't matter what level of interest someone has if they haven't learnt it in the first place.

And, as for the end, wow, no!!! Dude, get this straight… Japanese Jujutsu is Jujutsu that is from Japan. That's it. That's the whole criteria. And, honestly, if you can't find any Japanese Jujutsu around you (and frankly, I don't think you'd recognise it even if you did), that just means that there isn't any around you… nothing else.

Again…. you really, really have to forget anything and everything you think you know. Bluntly, you don't know a thing. Listen to what you're being told. And stop trying to put your own fractured and incorrect beliefs onto what we say… nothing you have said is even close to correct.

Chris you just said in other post and this one this is some some think you cannot study or learn you have to train find a instructor that knows Japanese Jujutsu.

I just reaped what you said.

When I said Japanese jiu jitsu school the instructor would have go to Japan and train there than come back and set up school

Was in response to you saying

People teach the art they know and are able to teach.

it has nothing to do with who is interested in teaching what… it's about what they're actually teaching.

You where correcting me saying it has nothing to do with how interested they are. They can only teach want they know.

So I just reaped what you said.

When I said Japanese jiu jitsu school the instructor would have go to Japan and train there than come back and set up school.

You can only teach want you know that want you said.

You have to find Japanese jiu jitsu school in US that may be really hard or go to Japan than study .

You can only teach want you know that want you said.

These are your words.


Chris I think I was under the impression in the beginning that the instructor could copy and study and learn.

You said no you cannot copy and study and learn. You can only teach want you know.

How do you know. Well find school. You just said and others members most schools in US are western system.


So you may have to go to Japan to school there and train there.

In order… No. I'm saying that for a school in the US to be teaching Japanese Jujutsu, it needs to be teaching Japanese Jujutsu, not some other art. That's it.

I said nothing of some other art or mixed art in my last post reply to you.

 

[Chris Parker]

You're not listening. None of that is what I said.

 

[moonhill99]

May be I should of ask question of why the Japanese jiujitsu system is not that popular out side of Japan but the western jiujitsu is really popular.

Is it just fad and popularity?

Or I was thinking the martial arts instructors not interested in the history and teaching
Japan system. That I think Chris was saying that not case.

Chris saying has nothing to do with interest in it. If so why is the western jiujitsu more popular.

Chris was going on about they can only teach want they know. So how would they know it with out training in Japan or finding school in US that teach old classic Japan system.

Remember Chris said they can only teach want they know.

So I take it more complex than a martial arts instructor that cannot just study the history out of book and moves and techniques they used in Japan out of book? That they cannot study in it but have to train in it. It be too complex even for a martial arts instructor.

I guess this where Chris was saying they can only teach want they know.

 

[moonhill99]

You're not listening. None of that is what I said.

Chris I think this is miscommunication problem.

Before you started replying, I was talking with Tony that was saying these systems are western jiujitsu systems not Japan system.

Other than me asking Tony what is the difference of two systems, I was going on about.

Martial arts instructors leaving out curriculum,moves and techniques of system in Japan.

By study I mean book on moves,techniques and curriculum.

You said they can only teach want they know.

So I take it is more complex than a martial arts instructor on book on moves,techniques and curriculum. They have to train in it to get knowledge to teach it.

You said they can only teach want they know.

So that what I was getting at, is there lack of knowledge of Japan system out side of Japan or just lack of interest in it.Where by the western jiujitsu system is more popular.

 

[elder999]

Pretty sure this guy's some kind of troll: from the misspelling of Chris's name right down to the apparent lack of command of the English language, to the downright obtuseness in this and other threads, I have to conclude that he's playing some sort of game.

No human being could possibly be so stupid.

 

[Steve]

You can't teach what you don't know. it seems like some pretty obvious stuff to me. If you haven't been taught classical, Japanese jujutsu from someone competent, you will be unable to teach it yourself. Not sure what the disconnect is here.

 

[elder999]

You can't teach what you don't know. it seems like some pretty obvious stuff to me. If you haven't been taught classical, Japanese jujutsu from someone competent, you will be unable to teach it yourself. Not sure what the disconnect is here.

Lots, actually.

One: Judo is "Japanese jujutsu."

Two: As the creator of Miyama ryu, Pereira Sensei had studied-and received teaching credentials-in Aikido and Sosuishitsu Ryu jujutsu, directly from the creators and inheritors of those arts. From my study of all of those arts, however, I have to say that Miyama ryu has very little Aikido, and even less Sosuishitsu ryu (though I'm probably asking for a beating by saying so).....

So, in Miyama ryu's case, we have a gaijin jujutsu, one geared towards western street crime, and incorporating techniques and strategies from a variety of sources. There are a few other American systems like this: upthread, someone mentioned Yoshitsune waza, and Hakko ryu. I was there the day Michael Depasquale senior publicly said he was calling his jujutsu "Yoshitsune waza," and there's a very long story behind that, but his system had its roots in the Yoshitsune jujutsu of Junji Saito, and Depasquale (and Saito's) own study of Hakko ryu......Yoshitsune waza is-to my mind- very much Hakko ryu, with some stuff thrown in for "spice." A "hakko-ryu stew," so to speak...

All of this means something to me, and it might mean something to Chris Parker (though he's likely to argue at least a little, because that's his way: he'll call it "correcting."

)

but it really means nothing-I often say that, when it's all said and done, Miyama ryu is an awful lot like the so-called "dirty judo" of the 40's and 50's....in fact, my usual recommendation to people seeking good self defense skills is for them to study judo at the YMCA, and join a PAL boxing program...barring that, though, what is it you want from martial arts training? There aren't many programs that can satisfy all answers to that question, so knowing your answer is of paramount importance. It appears-if he's serious, and I'm beginning to doubt that-that the OP wants real self-defense training. If that's the case, he could do a lot worse than a Miyama ryu or Yoshitsune waza dojo......most aikido dojo would be worse, in fact-not all...likewise, most BJJ dojo-no offense to them, but 9/10 of the ones that I've seen train from a kneeling position, and roll around on the mats as though that's the entirety of a confrontation: 99% of all fights might wind up on the ground (though I don't think that's true) but 100% of them start standing up...likewise,sadly, most judo dojo don't really train for self-defense, but for a game whose evolving rules make it less and less realistic. Most aikido dojo are too caught up in the whole mystical, peacenik, fluffy aiki-bunny aspects to be effective self defense, though there are som that are......I'd recommend knowing what you want, and if it's effective self-defense, ask a couple of cops,[/b[, or shop in really bad neighborhoods, and find the school that's been in one for a couple of decades.....

 

[moonhill99]

Lots, actually.

One: Judo is "Japanese jujutsu."

Two: As the creator of Miyama ryu, Pereira had studied-and received teaching credentials-in Aikido and Sosuishitsu Ryu jujutsu, directly from the creators and inheritors of those arts. From my study of all of those arts, however, I have to say that Miyama ryu has very little Aikido, and even less Sosuishitsu ryu (though I'm probably asking for a beating by doing so).....

So, in Miyama ryu's case, we have a gaijin jujutsu, one geared towards western street crime, and incorporating techniques and strategies from a variety of sources. There are a few other American systems like this: upthread, someone mentioned Yoshitsune waza, and Hakko ryu. I was there the day Michael Depasquale senior publicly said he was calling his jujutsu "Yoshitsune waza," and there's a very long story behind that, but his system had its roots in the Yoshitsune jujutsu of Junji Saito, and Depasquale (and Saito's) own study of Hakko ryu......Yoshitsune waza is-to my mind- very much Hakko ryu, with some stuff thrown in for "spice." A "hakko-ryu stew," so to speak...

All of this means something to me, and it might mean something to Chris Parker (though he's likely to argue at least a little, because that's his way: he'll call it "correcting."

)

but it really means nothing-I often say that, when it's all said and done, Miyama ryu is an awful lot like the so-called "dirty judo" of the 40's and 50's....in fact, my usual recommendation to people seeking good self defense skills is for them to study judo at the YMCA, and join a PAL boxing program...barring that, though, what is it you want from martial arts training? There aren't many programs that can satisfy all answers to that question, so knowing your answer is of paramount importance. It appears-if he's serious, and I'm beginning to doubt that-that the OP wants real self-defense training.

elder999 I know this thread got off topic of Japanese jiujitsu vs western system. Has I never heard that before this message board.

The scopes of this thread was jiujitsu schools in south Florida.

elder999 did you train at the Miyama ryu jiujitsu school in Miami? Or know anyone that train there at the Miyama ryu jiujitsu school in Miami.

If so what is the school like. Do you think it my be good school for a young overweight person like my self?

Would I be able to do some of these moves being really overweight? Or should I hit the gym and lose some weight first?

 

[elder999]

elder999 did you train at the Miyama ryu jiujitsu school in Miami? Or know anyone that train there at the Miyama ryu jiujitsu school in Miami.

I started Miyama ryu jujutsu in 1981. Before that, I'd studied judo and Kyokushin karate-both of which I've continued, as well as studying....other things.....Since Pereiera's death in 1999, and even before that, Miyama ryu has diverged a little bit here and there, depending upon who was teaching it and where they were. While I've never been to the Miami dojo, I can say that Echavarria sensei and his people are excellent....

If so what is the school like. Do you think it my be good school for a young overweight person like my self?

Would I be able to do some of these moves being really overweight? Or should I hit the gym and lose some weight first?

It will be hard, but you wouldn't be the first "overweight" person to benefit from the training-it only gets harder, and the first few kyu grades are just not that difficult for....anyone, I think, unless you're really, really, like "circus fatman" overweight... with that said, the best training for martial arts is to do.....martial arts. If you can find one, a boxing gym-and the boxing regimen-is really, in my opinion, one of the best ways to get into shape and lose weight, and an excellent complement to many forms of martial arts training.

Be advised: depending upon how "young" you are, you might not get "Miyama ryu" training, and be put into the judo program-Miyama ryu is rarely taught to anyone under 14....still, from experience I can say that judo is excellent preparation for Miyama ryu, which is really (though I'm likely asking for a beating saying so) primarily about using judo for self-defense.

 

[Chris Parker]

Pretty sure this guy's some kind of troll: from the misspelling of Chris's name right down to the apparent lack of command of the English language, to the downright obtuseness in this and other threads, I have to conclude that he's playing some sort of game.

No human being could possibly be so stupid.

Going with the benefit of the doubt for the moment… but only for the moment… I'm going to try this one last time.

May be I should of ask question of why the Japanese jiujitsu system is not that popular out side of Japan but the western jiujitsu is really popular.

Is it just fad and popularity?

No.

For the last time, it's got nothing to do with being "popular"… you might say that, in the US, it's more common to find Western systems than actual Japanese ones, but by the same token, you'll find dominantly Japanese systems in Japan, and few Western ones.

It has nothing to do with being "popular".

Or I was thinking the martial arts instructors not interested in the history and teaching
Japan system. That I think Chris was saying that not case.

No.

It's that you're dealing with instructors who have learnt modern, Western systems. Nothing to do with interest or not, just that they can only teach what they've learnt.

Chris saying has nothing to do with interest in it. If so why is the western jiujitsu more popular.

It's not. It's just more common in the US. That is not the same thing.

Chris was going on about they can only teach want they know. So how would they know it with out training in Japan or finding school in US that teach old classic Japan system.

What??? They wouldn't. That was the point.

Remember Chris said they can only teach want they know.

Yes.

So I take it more complex than a martial arts instructor that cannot just study the history out of book and moves and techniques they used in Japan out of book? That they cannot study in it but have to train in it. It be too complex even for a martial arts instructor.

No, you cannot learn a specific system by reading books, you need to be taught it. There is no such single art as "Japanese Jujutsu".

I guess this where Chris was saying they can only teach want they know.

No. It's nowhere near that complex.

Chris I think this is miscommunication problem.

No, I don't think that's the case… there's certainly a communication issue, but I don't think miscommunication is it…

Before you started replying, I was talking with Tony that was saying these systems are western jiujitsu systems not Japan system.

Which is because every example you came up with were modern, Western eclectic systems that use the name "jiujitsu" in some form. None of them were Japanese, nor what would be classified as "jujutsu" by some.

Other than me asking Tony what is the difference of two systems, I was going on about.

There are no "two systems"… that's been explained to you since Tony first answered you. Jujutsu is a very broad categorisation of a large number of Japanese unarmed and lightly armed systems from over Japans history… there is no single art called "Japanese Jujutsu". While there will be certain traits that are shared between them, no two systems are the same in any form at all.

Martial arts instructors leaving out curriculum,moves and techniques of system in Japan.

The only way they could do that is to be teaching a specific Japanese system, but not in it's entirety. There is no single art, no single curriculum, no single approach, no single methodology called Japanese Jujutsu.

By study I mean book on moves,techniques and curriculum.

Pointless.

You said they can only teach want they know.

Yes.

So I take it is more complex than a martial arts instructor on book on moves,techniques and curriculum. They have to train in it to get knowledge to teach it.

No, they will need to learn whatever specific system they're wanting to learn.

You said they can only teach want they know.

I don't think you know what that means. You repeat it, like so much else here, but nothing seems to have sunk in.

So that what I was getting at, is there lack of knowledge of Japan system out side of Japan or just lack of interest in it.Where by the western jiujitsu system is more popular.

Oh, for crying out loud… no. Just no, to all of that. It's not more popular, it's not a lack of interest, and it's not a lack of knowledge. A tennis coach doesn't coach wrestling, not for lack of interest, knowledge, popularity, or anything else in wrestling, it's because they know how to coach tennis.

Be advised: depending upon how "young" you are, you might not get "Miyama ryu" training, and be put into the judo program-Miyama ryu is rarely taught to anyone under 14....still, from experience I can say that judo is excellent preparation for Miyama ryu, which is really (though I'm likely asking for a beating saying so) primarily about using judo for self-defense.

Well… his profile says he's 29… if that's accurate, of course…

 

[moonhill99]

Pretty sure this guy's some kind of troll: from the misspelling of Chris's name right down to the apparent lack of command of the English language, to the downright obtuseness in this and other threads, I have to conclude that he's playing some sort of game.

No human being could possibly be so stupid.

Chris's last post today pretty much answers it all.

Chris likes to argue and I think the way he was replying to my posts in a colorful way was making a communication problem. This thread was all over the place and talking about many things that reading comprehension and quoted who said what was problem.

 

[moonhill99]

I started Miyama ryu jujutsu in 1981. Before that, I'd studied judo and Kyokushin karate-both of which I've continued, as well as studying....other things.....Since Pereiera's death in 1999, and even before that, Miyama ryu has diverged a little bit here and there, depending upon who was teaching it and where they were. While I've never been to the Miami dojo, I can say that Echavarria sensei and his people are excellent....



It will be hard, but you wouldn't be the first "overweight" person to benefit from the training-it only gets harder, and the first few kyu grades are just not that difficult for....anyone, I think, unless you're really, really, like "circus fatman" overweight... with that said, the best training for martial arts is to do.....martial arts. If you can find one, a boxing gym-and the boxing regimen-is really, in my opinion, one of the best ways to get into shape and lose weight, and an excellent complement to many forms of martial arts training.

Be advised: depending upon how "young" you are, you might not get "Miyama ryu" training, and be put into the judo program-Miyama ryu is rarely taught to anyone under 14....still, from experience I can say that judo is excellent preparation for Miyama ryu, which is really (though I'm likely asking for a beating saying so) primarily about using judo for self-defense.

There is other jiujitsu school in Miami.

Mushin Martial Arts Robaina Bootcamp Fitness

It seems more Aikido like and hardly any Judo moves.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

There is other jiujitsu school in Miami.

Mushin Martial Arts Robaina Bootcamp Fitness

It seems more Aikido like and hardly any Judo moves.

That's because their practice is mostly derived from various lineages tracing back to Daito Ryu, i.e. Aikido, Hapkido, and Hakko Ryu.

Honestly, though, I think you're at the point where you need to stop intellectualizing about how to categorize different arts. You want a well-rounded martial art that will teach you how to strike and grapple. You are in a major city that has plenty of good schools to choose from. You need to just start visiting some of those schools, get a feel for which ones have an atmosphere and teaching style that you will be comfortable with, pick one, and give it a try. All this discussion of categories and lineages is just confusing you and isn't really relevant to what you have stated you want to learn.

 

[moonhill99]

That's because their practice is mostly derived from various lineages tracing back to Daito Ryu, i.e. Aikido, Hapkido, and Hakko Ryu.

Honestly, though, I think you're at the point where you need to stop intellectualizing about how to categorize different arts. You want a well-rounded martial art that will teach you how to strike and grapple. You are in a major city that has plenty of good schools to choose from. You need to just start visiting some of those schools, get a feel for which ones have an atmosphere and teaching style that you will be comfortable with, pick one, and give it a try. All this discussion of categories and lineages is just confusing you and isn't really relevant to what you have stated you want to learn.

Tony good jiujitsu school I would get mix of both some Aikido and some Judo moves.

I look at many of schools in Florida.

What a mess.

Some schools have more striking ,some hardly none, some do ground work ,some hardly at all, some not at all, some more judo like, some more on wrist locks, some in between,some both ,some do multiple attackers and some none at all.


I was just wondering how much Aikido and Judo moves would you get in the above video.

Or would Aikido be more rouger and gritty in that school than nice Aikido.

 

[moonhill99]

That's because their practice is mostly derived from various lineages tracing back to Daito Ryu, i.e. Aikido, Hapkido, and Hakko Ryu.

Honestly, though, I think you're at the point where you need to stop intellectualizing about how to categorize different arts. You want a well-rounded martial art that will teach you how to strike and grapple. You are in a major city that has plenty of good schools to choose from. You need to just start visiting some of those schools, get a feel for which ones have an atmosphere and teaching style that you will be comfortable with, pick one, and give it a try. All this discussion of categories and lineages is just confusing you and isn't really relevant to what you have stated you want to learn.

What about this school.

It seems more mix of every thing than the other school.So I will get little of every thing and get feel for the different styles.

Mix of Aikido and Judo in that school.

I hear there some Brazilian jiu jitsu in here too and kung fu.

 

[Spinedoc]

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how much striking a school does versus one that does little, versus ground work...etc. You are looking for the perfect art and perfect school and let me tell you....there is NO SUCH thing. Each art has strengths and weaknesses, but you won't know that until you actually start practicing.... Aikido has good blending, practices against multiple attackers, good wrist locks and throws, and some ground work from suwari waza, but it doesn't have BJJ groundwork. It doesn't have the striking of karate or TKD, it takes a long time to get good at....etc.etc. BJJ has excellent groundwork, but little striking (that I've seen), and doesn't focus on multiple attackers. Karate has excellent striking, decent wrist locks, but not much blending, and doesn't practice much against multiple attackers.....etc.etc.etc. These are all gross generalizations...which is my point. It doesn't matter.

Do you see what I'm getting at? At some point, you need to get off the computer, pick a class go to it, see if you like it, and either stick with it, or try something else.

It's like someone trying to figure out complex algebraic subtleties in maths, without having a good foundation in basic algebra.

YMMV.

 

[moonhill99]

YMMV.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps it would be beneficial to redefine your search. What are you after, without regard to names or styles,? Are you looking for locks and holds, throws, strikes?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how much striking a school does versus one that does little, versus ground work...etc. You are looking for the perfect art and perfect school and let me tell you....there is NO SUCH thing. Each art has strengths and weaknesses, but you won't know that until you actually start practicing.... Aikido has good blending, practices against multiple attackers, good wrist locks and throws, and some ground work from suwari waza, but it doesn't have BJJ groundwork. It doesn't have the striking of karate or TKD, it takes a long time to get good at....etc.etc. BJJ has excellent groundwork, but little striking (that I've seen), and doesn't focus on multiple attackers. Karate has excellent striking, decent wrist locks, but not much blending, and doesn't practice much against multiple attackers.....etc.etc.etc. These are all gross generalizations...which is my point. It doesn't matter.

Do you see what I'm getting at? At some point, you need to get off the computer, pick a class go to it, see if you like it, and either stick with it, or try something else.

It's like someone trying to figure out complex algebraic subtleties in maths, without having a good foundation in basic algebra.

YMMV.

School have some throws,take downs,wrist locks and feel for different styles Judo and Aikido.

Than if I really like Aikido I can go to Aikido school or Judo school if I like that better.

Any good jujutsu school have some striking and ground work.

 

[Drose427]

YMMV.

School have some throws,take downs,wrist locks and feel for different styles Judo and Aikido.

Than if I really like Aikido I can go to Aikido school or Judo school if I like that better.

Any good jujutsu school have some striking and ground work.[/QUOTE]

Just go to the school you liked the most. At this point everyones said everything they can. Just train for yourself