Nasty Reminder

[satans.barber]

Oh, Guiseppe asked if he'd done any training before - the answer is no he hasn't.

I have offered to bring him up to the kenpo club (it's 2 minutes away from where he lives) before but he didn't seem to interested, I don't think it's his kind of thing really.

I also offered again after the accident and I told him is might help him get some self confidence back, and he seemed a little more receptive to the idea.

I think he thinks that because he's so small he'll be no good at it, but I've tried to convince him otherwise.

Anyway, the offer is there if he ever wants to take me up on it,

Ian.

 

[Les]

Originally posted by satans.barber

I think he thinks that because he's so small he'll be no good at it, but I've tried to convince him otherwise.
Ian.

Ian,

Point out to him that the essence of the Kenpo System is that it is tailored to the person.

I'm only 5ft 2 ins myself, but I'm getting the hang of it.

Les

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by satans.barber
. . .

Certainly I would hope that no off duty policeman (or lady) would ever actually stand by and watch a crime, just because they weren't in uniform; they're trained to realize that they're never really off the job. I wouldn't be surprised if some would do though.

. . .

Ian.

First, I am sorry to hear about the assault. I hope your friend gets well.

Second, let me say that there are a lot of good cops. I know many.

As to the quote above.

I was bouncing a bar one night, and went down to another club my friend was running. Image a city Alley and it is about 4 buildings down. I still had someone at my door and I went to investigate a large group of people. It turned out to be a lot of ***** (* I edited out the racist group's name *). There were 6 girls all with pitbulls and Dobermans jumping at the end of their leashes to get into the fun. There were about another 10 cheering and making noise and just acting tough, while 4 more were actually pit dancing up against the bouncers of this other club. That is to say no punches just body slams, They were just pushing the law, because no actual threat or assault has occurred, since they were just 'dancing'. I came up close to the scene right as all hell broke loose. two guys bumped / danced into the two bouncers again, and the third and fourth then reached over top and with one hit each they took out the bouncers. They were down and the bad guys started stomping them guys down with their steeled toed boots. (* A felony in Michigan Assault and Battery with the attempt to commit murder *) I jumped in to give some guys a chance to pull the two downed guys into the doorway and out of harms way. I literally had one at the end of each arm by the neck. The fourth guy was still after the downed bouncers, and the third jumped over the shoulders of the two I had, and hit me the hardest I have ever been hit before. My right eye immediately crossed. I could not use it. I knew if I went down I was done for. I closed the eye and continued to fight. A while later (* Seconds *) I stepped back for balance and stepped on a downed bouncer's foot. I went down in the doorway. I was then jumped on by the main guy who had hit me.

Unknown to me, an off-duty officer was watching a nearby bank, while some workers were inside, he had stepped outside for a smoke break. He say me go by and he kind of followed me to see where I was going. He say it all happen. And instead of jumping in, he ran back inside to call the police. He then came back out side and he no longer could see me, only see the guys attacking the doorway. He did not charge in since he assumed the doorway was closed, and it was better to be safe and wait for back up, given the numbers and the dogs and the possibilities of weapons.

I was on the ground, I had both legs up holding the jerk on top of me. He was trying to hit me. I held him at bay with one leg and kicked him with the other. This frustrated him so he jumped back off and tried to kick me in the groin. (* Seig be Quiet *) I then did ankle kicks to his shins to keep his kicks from landing with any real damage. He then jumped on me again. This continued for a couple of minutes. Once the other bouncers were clear, I was able to roll back and after another guy close the door after he had jumpers off of me. When I got the door back open he and his friends were running for the vehicles. The police were coming. And literally they left just before the police arrived. Many of the witnesses were upset (* They were in a place to see the off - duty officer and me *) when they found out about the off-duty officer. So, given perspective the off-duty officer did his best, yet I could have used a little bit of help. Others were mad, I think personally because they did not react either. I was happy the off-duty officer had called the police and back-up. It meant my total time being on the ground was less.

So, sometimes, it depends upon the perspective. The off-duty officer may not have believed the threats, and just figured everyone had gone home.

Just some insight from someone who has been there also.

Respect


:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Just a notion. Many people seem to have it their head, and it was put there by martial arts teachers I am sure, that fights look a certain way. That it's man against man, that all these techniques will burst forth when you get into a fight from your training. But they tell you not to use your training lest you kill someone.

Then they wonder why so called "sport" martial arts like Boxing, Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, and NHB do so well when put against their art.

It's because they practice what they plan to do. They do it for real. Here's an example of 2 guys who know nothing but one still manages to end up in the mount after he feeds the kid 2 punches. Notice how the kicks become something he later feeds the kid when he's got the upper hand?

http://download.consumptionjunction.com/multimedia/cj_17898.wmv

The first thing I downloaded looking for more fights was 2 girls in a schoolyard who go down into the guard while they both grab and punch with the opposite hand. Another is 2 bicyclists going at each other...grab and pound. In fact I have a clip of 1 guys fighting 4 other guys and he grabs and pounds. The only technique he uses is to pound and get away to pound another guy and then get clear. ( I can send these to you)

There is no moving in or out of the conflict until one has the upperhand or can retreat. No step through punches.

I think we all need to get very clear on what is actually happening out there and isn't happening in the dojo.

 

[satans.barber]

That's a good point to make Gou, but what are you driving at?

Are you saying to be open minded about actual conflicts and not to try and go about them in a pre-defined way, or are you saying that martial arts training isn't ever really going to give anyone the upper hand because of the un-predicatbility of the situation?

I would hope, at least, that kenpo brings us closer to street situations that some martial arts do.

At our club we frequently try and do as realistic a training as possibly without actually sending people limping home (if you train full power and with brutality, then you're willfully subjecting yourself to the one thing that you're trianing to avoid), but I do realise that it's never going to be the same.

One thing that's quite interesting to do it set out some tables, sit down at one, and then have 2 or 3 people start on you. There's a tendancy to train in open halls, with no obstructions, then someone gets into a fight in a pub an the first thing that happens is someone pushes them backwards over a table! Try it, you can throw people into the tables yourself (Taming the Mace works well), whilst trying to avoid them yourself etc.. From a seated position, you can come up with lots of responses to grabs and things as well, including some particularly nice slam-their-face-into-the-wood ones

Another good exercise it to make everyone spar in one small corner of the room, instead of spreading out. Not only does this teach people to avoid 'civilians' as it were, but you can also try and lose the person who's actually attacking you by moving through the crowd. Good for peripheral vision and spacial awareness too.

Other favourites are someone trying to cut you up with a smashed bottle or glass (just cut a plastic bottle jagged, and then smooth off the pointy bits), 2-4 onto one sparring, and of course a technique line up with random attack met by random defense. You can also try starting on the floor and trying to get up, which is pretty scary.

Of course, lots of padwork is also essential, so people actually get used to slamming their fists, feet, elbows, knees at. into something more than thin air.

...as I said, it's never going to totally prepare people for one of more random nutters intent on damaging you, but, it's surely doing more good than standing in a neatly formed line practicing lock out punches and develping a lovely ki-ai nosie...

Ian.

p.s. I think the guy in that video might've done better if he wasn't wearing that hoodie! It was covering his face half the time. Always remember if you're going out, what are you wearing and if you had to, can you fight in it...

As a side note, because I'm a student I have to walk everywhere with a heavy rucksack on, so one day I started training in normal clothes with the damn thing on my back...didn't half make a difference to mobility!

 

[SingingTiger]

Originally posted by GouRonin
Just a notion. Many people seem to have it their head, and it was put there by martial arts teachers I am sure, that fights look a certain way.

Damn. Thanks for the reality check, Gou.

Seems to me that one good lesson to learn from that video is, "never start a fight."

Rich

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by satans.barber
That's a good point to make Gou, but what are you driving at?

I'm saying that some dojo's are preparing people for unrealistic self defense and that we should all be open minded as to what we do and look out there to see what is really going on. We don't fight the same way we did 30 years ago. We don't have the same problems we did 30 years ago. Hell, since 9/11 we don't have the same issues we did 2 years ago. Let's not get stuck in traditionalism.

Originally posted by satans.barber
p.s. I think the guy in that video might've done better if he wasn't wearing that hoodie! It was covering his face half the time. Always remember if you're going out, what are you wearing and if you had to, can you fight in it...

The kid would have done better if he had any heart and paid attention to what he was throwing at.

 

[satans.barber]

As a pleasing end note to this story, I just received word from my friend, and he wants to come down to the club tommorrow night to try out a lesson

Hopefully, if he likes it enough to stay, then he may be able to help himself and others in simialar situations in the future...

Ian.

 

[Jill666]

Good for him- I hope it helps him feel better about what happened, aside from the other obvious benefits.

:asian:

 

[theletch1]

The biggest benifit that he'll get in the short term will be the self confidence to walk with his head up and eyes moving. It's amazing what the "predators" will by pass if they feel that there may be even the slightest bit of a challenge to their attack. One of the things that I wish were covered more in my training is how to carry yourself, being aware of who and what are around you, escape avenues and weapons of opportunity. All of these things were things that were unofficially taught to us in the Marine Corps before hitting the fleet and carry over very well into civilian life. One of the things that is expected of the students in my kwoon when we make brown is to design and instruct a one hour class for the rest of the students. I've already begun preparing the class that I will do and this subject will be the exact one that I do the class on. I fully intend to use some of the suggestion on this thread for the class. If you have any more let me know.

Maybe getting into kenpo will give your friend that ethereal something or other that will act as a warning to the next bunch of thugs that go out looking for an "easy" target.

My best to your friend.
respectfully,
theletch1:asian: