Naihanchi.

[tshadowchaser]

The original thread post

Naihanchi.
Naihanchi shodan, nidan, and sandan are so similar. What's the point? For example, why not add a few of the distinct moves from nidan and sandan to shodan and make it one slightly longer form?

Lets get back to the discussion as it was presented and stop talking about who is right or wrong or who thinks they know more than the rest of the world combined. We all have whatevr knowledge that was given to us by our instructors and our own way of teaching and demonstrating. My way may not be yours but that dose not make any less correct . your way may differ from someone elses but that makes it no less correct or incorrect. lets discuss what the topics are about and keep the "my way is the only way " to a minimum. I dont know about everyone else but I read these threads to get differing views at times.

 

[arnisador]

I recently learned Tekki Shodan (Shotokan); I had learned Isshin-ryu's Naihanchi many years ago. The latter was much higher and had a quicker and higher returning wave kick (the leg flip), but the grappling applications are certainly clearer to me in the Shotokan version.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Seems to me that I learned a TKD form many years ago simular to Tekki Shodan but darned if I can remember what it was. (to many years not doing TKD) Any of the TKD people out there know which form it might have been, or was the instructor doing a form not in TKD (or one that is no longer done)

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

Lets get back to the discussion as it was presented and stop talking about who is right or wrong or who thinks they know more than the rest of the world combined. We all have whatevr knowledge that was given to us by our instructors and our own way of teaching and demonstrating.

The natural flow of the topic took us here.
Why are Naihanchi 1,2,3, different? Why not just mush them all into one kata?
People that understand the bunkai with in those kata know that it doesn't make sense to do so for the mere fact that the techniques are different in each kata.

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

stop talking about who is right or wrong or who thinks they know more than the rest of the world combined.

I can't help but think this comment is directed at me.
Not once have I ever implied I "knew more than rest of the world combined".
I have, however, stated where and how I came to form an "educated" opinion on certain folks technique.
So if your not interested in it.............don't read and stick to replys that deal with the topic only.

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

My way may not be yours but that dose not make any less correct . your way may differ from someone elses but that makes it no less correct or incorrect. lets discuss what the topics are about and keep the "my way is the only way " to a minimum.

Nobody has said "my way is the only way".
It's people like yourself that make sweeping generalizations that astound me.
There are many different ways, some are correct and some are not.
The one I eluded to was in the "not correct" category.

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

I dont know about everyone else but I read these threads to get differing views at times.

As do I.
I don't mind different views.......in fact I often encourage my students to ask questions and question what they are learning because only then will they understand it deeper.
However when people propagate absolute uneducated crap about a subject I am slightly familiar with it tends to bug me.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

Any of the TKD people out there know which form it might have been, or was the instructor doing a form not in TKD (or one that is no longer done)

This is not the TKD forum..........let's get back to the topic.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by arnisador

I recently learned Tekki Shodan (Shotokan); I had learned Isshin-ryu's Naihanchi many years ago. The latter was much higher and had a quicker and higher returning wave kick (the leg flip), but the grappling applications are certainly clearer to me in the Shotokan version.

Which grappling applications would those be?
Just curious..........

 

[RyuShiKan]

BTW, kyusho and atemi are very much related to this topic of the Naihanchi kata and it is one of the reasons why there is no need to squash them into one kata.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1

Why the sudden ER rush of folks when a person gets smacked and KO'd?

Just wondering...

Originally posted by arnisador



This has always seemed like showmanship to me.

It is.
Most of the time you can tell those people aren't even truly KOed........look at some of the body motion........a dead give away.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

I've always been of the opinion that a demo is just that, a demo. I think if we were seeing things done 'for real' we'd hear of alot more deaths in the arts.

Demo's are "controlled semi-realistic situations".
I seen no training value or information value in 2 people standing stone still and pretending to do a technique.
All that does is "wow" the uninitiated folks when they see someone hit the ground.

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

Another point to consider is do you really want someone who has half a clue, and less control going full speed on you?

You mean like in a "realistic" situation?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Every art seems to have its share of 'smoke and mirrors' tricks to wow the uneducated. I remember being wowed myself years ago at some myself, before my studies showed me the truth.

My opinion on how a proper demo runs is that it should 'simulate' a real situation, but in a very controled way. This may mean people moving slower than normal, or movements being isolated. For example if showing something fairly complex maybe you drop the footwork to focus on the hand movements.

Personally, I like it when you see it at 'real' speeds, then a slow motion walk thru with explaination. But thats just my preference.

on reality training, my teachers have always started out with the idea of moving slowly in order to learn accuracy and mussle memory, adding speed as you progress. I have also seen where the focus is on speed, with the comment 'accuracy will come with practice'.

:asian:

 

[DKI Girl]

RyuShiKan,

After this comment from you:


"I don't know why since you weren't demonstrating any technique."


I am pretty sure that I don't really care what you think anymore. I came to this forum to learn new ideas, meet new people and maybe contribute a little myself.


"I think I can safely say that with my years of hands on clinical training, not mention the exams I took and passed plus the license to practice, TCM that qualify me as a person to say your "color by numbers kyusho" method is a crock of you know what."


Since you portray yourself as knowing everything there is about kyusho, and you obviously don't care about someone else's opinion, then I will let the "discussion" end here.

If anyone else would like to discuss techniques and exchange information from Naihanchi or other katas, I will be glad to contribute.

dkigirl

 

[tshadowchaser]

Ryushikan,
The question I asked of the TKD people is of value to this thread IMO. If there is a form simular to Tekki Sodan with in the TKD systems I wanted there views on it, its application and varriations.
With such imput we could have had a comparison between styles/systems.
Shadow

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by DKI Girl

RyuShiKan,

After this comment from you:


"I don't know why since you weren't demonstrating any technique."


I am pretty sure that I don't really care what you think anymore. I came to this forum to learn new ideas, meet new people and maybe contribute a little myself.

OK, please tell me which technique the person in the video was defending against...........was it a punch a kick or was it the ever deadly "standing-waiting for a bus" technique.
Must have been the bus one because they sure didn't look as if they weren't punching or kicking anyone.
You obviously are just in it for the "fame and fortune" and those "demo/seminar-dollars".

Originally posted by DKI Girl

"I think I can safely say that with my years of hands on clinical training, not mention the exams I took and passed plus the license to practice, TCM that qualify me as a person to say your "color by numbers kyusho" method is a crock of you know what."


Since you portray yourself as knowing everything there is about kyusho, and you obviously don't care about someone else's opinion, then I will let the "discussion" end here.

Again another sweeping generalization.
Did I say or even portray myself as knowing "everything"? I can't seem to find that bit in my post.
Is it so wrong to support my ideas with credentials to show where I base my opinions............I think not.


I am all for another opinion as long as it is a somewhat "educated".

Originally posted by DKI Girl

If anyone else would like to discuss techniques and exchange information from Naihanchi or other katas, I will be glad to contribute.

dkigirl

This statement speaks volumes.
You would rather not discuss it with someone that is trained in TCM because it would shoot holes in your "half-baked" theories about kyusho.

Originally posted by DKI Girl


Just to let everyone know that I am a "color by number" type or person. My opinion is that it is a whole lot easier talking with someone about Stomach 9 rather than "an area on the neck". Especially when we are "talking" via email. Makes things alot more understandable when you can't put your hands on each other and show you what they are talking about.
dkigirl

Is that how you learned kyusho............via "talking" on the Internet?

First off learning kyusho via the Internet is a waste learning. It is far too complicated to show/explain properly.
There are just too many things like foot work hand motion and so on that cannot be conveyed on the Internet.

Secondly any one that tries to teach kyusho over the Internet is irresponsible and they cheapen the art.
Irresponsible because you never know who is going to read it and what they will do with it.
They may read some of it and then go out and try it...........they may hurt some else, although doubtful for the reasons stated above.
Or they might get hurt themselves. Either way it would be due to some dipstick on the Internet that is trying to show off by posting how much they "know" and by posting mpegs poorly demonstrating "technique".

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

Ryushikan,
The question I asked of the TKD people is of value to this thread IMO. If there is a form simular to Tekki Sodan with in the TKD systems I wanted there views on it, its application and varriations.
With such imput we could have had a comparison between styles/systems.
Shadow

Kind of like how the different kyusho/atemi/tuite techniques make the 3 Naihanchi kata unique unto them selves but you didn't feel they needed to be discussed here.

 

[tshadowchaser]

This whole thread should be based onthe first and second posts in it .
I have not objected to disecting each I only asked that WE ALL refrain from saying our interpatation is the only one.
If ANYONE has taken this personal Im sorry it was made to more than one person because more than one is involved in the thread. If you feel the hat fits then that is your business I have not named anyone except in my last post.

AT THIS POINT I GO OFF TOPIC
Ryushikan, sir, Your knowledge is vast but but you tend to take everything verry personal. LIghten up Please. This is a Friendly place for us all to express and question. I ask as a member and poster in these threads please do not try to shove your belifes down the throat of others let them have the right to differ with you., we accept your right to differ with us . If you dont like a viedo or a paticular comment It is alright to not comment or to post so as to not belittle the other posters. WE all see things from time to time we do not agree with but most of us do not cut other people down and dissupt the thread by being pompus. You have asked if you present yourslef as knowing everything Sir at times you do
NOW i apologise to those posting and reading this thread for my going off topic and I now remove myself from this thread except for reading it because my knowledge of the forms is not at a level where I know more than has been said already. I truley hope it goes back on topic because it is an interesting thread with a wide varrity of interpatations IMO
Shadow

For those that dont know me no i don't spell well and I have no spell check

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

This whole thread should be based onthe first and second posts in it .

Which was why don't they put all the naihanchi kata into 1 kata right?
The reasons I gave support my opinion why and yet you still think they are off topic.........

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

I have not objected to disecting each I only asked that WE ALL refrain from saying our interpatation is the only one.

As far as I have seen on this thread nobody has made such a claim.
There have been claims that some opinions are not correct but I have yet to read one that even suggested "My way is the only way"

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

AT THIS POINT I GO OFF TOPIC
Ryushikan, sir, Your knowledge is vast but but you tend to take everything verry personal. LIghten up Please.

I don't take things personal and so there is no need for me to "lighten up".

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

This is a Friendly place for us all to express and question. I ask as a member and poster in these threads please do not try to shove your belifes down the throat of others let them have the right to differ with you., we accept your right to differ with us.
............ WE all see things from time to time we do not agree with but most of us do not cut other people down and dissupt the thread by being pompus

I am not shoving my beliefs down someone's throat.
Sorry if I base my posts on actually "facts" and events.

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

.....................You have asked if you present yourslef as knowing everything Sir at times you do

Again, sorry if I base my posts on actually "facts" and events.



As I said before. I don't mind "educated" discussions on topics, in fact I encourage it, but when people post absolute garbage I will call them on it. I refuse to sugar coat it and give them a warm fuzzy feeling about themselves when I disagree with someone.
If you don't like it or have a problem with it ................... DON'T READ IT.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by DKI Girl

If anyone else would like to discuss techniques and exchange information from Naihanchi or other katas, I will be glad to contribute.

I'v learned some fascinating applications from Mr. Dillman and other DKI instructors--many of them not (principally) involving kyusho at all. I forget the name of the reverend with the Isshin-ryu backround who's with DKI--Chris something?--but he in particular demonstrated some Naihanchi applications with little or no pressure points but just neat stuff.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan


Is that how you learned kyusho............via "talking" on the Internet?

I didn't think that that was what she said.

some dipstick on the Internet that is trying to show off by posting how much they "know"

Yes, isn't this annoying?

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan

Kind of like how the different kyusho/atemi/tuite techniques make the 3 Naihanchi kata unique unto them selves but you didn't feel they needed to be discussed here.

That isn't waht he said. It had become something of an Oyata vs. Dillman thread. Discussing why the kyusho/atemi/tuite techniques make them distinct would be most welcome. Could you elaborate? Simply asserting it isn't very enlightening, but i honestly would be evry interested.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan

Which grappling applications would those be?
Just curious..........

Please bear in mind that I have had precisely two Shotokan lessons so far. My instructor has mentioned that many of th techniques have grappling applications; so far the only one we've seriously worked is off of the backhand block-elbow-fists at sides after the first cross-over step. It was interpreted as blocking a punch from the outside, using the leg to off-balance the opponent, grabbing the head and elbowing the back of the neck, then throwing the opponent down.