My point about going a mile distance

[Tgace]

I never liked that parable, you think Michael Jordan never strove to be the best? Or if we are going to keep it to swordsmanship, Miyamoto Musashi?

I think your misunderstanding the point. The student was more interested in his timeline than he was in what was actually involved in learning the skill. His statement regarding ten years to mastery being "too long" is the point to this parable

Its like the student whos first question is "how many years till I get my black belt?". You get it when you deserve it.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Or, as has been said before... shut up and train.

That's all fine and dandy but there does come a time when you've got to use your mouth. After all, its there for a reason, isn't it?

 

[PhotonGuy]

A young boy traveled across Japan to the school of a great and famous swordsman. When he arrived at the school he was given an audience with the founder, who was impressed that this young boy had made such a long journey.

'What do you want from me?' the master asked.

'I wish to be your student and become the finest swordsman in the land,' the boy replied. 'How long must I study?'

'Ten years at least,' the master answered.

'Ten years is a long time. What if I studied twice as hard as all your other students?'

'Twenty years,' replied the master.

'Twenty years! What if I practiced unrelentingly, day and night with all my effort?'

'Thirty years,' replied the master.

'How is it that each time I say I will work harder you tell me that it will take longer?' the student asked, quite confused by now.

'The answer is clear,' said the master.

'When there is one eye fixed upon your destination, there is only one eye left with which to find the way.'

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Yes this story has been posted on this forum before. Anyway, here is where Im coming from and I've said this before on this thread. If I was that student and the master told me it would take ten years to become a master swordsman as it is in the story, than I would expect to take ten years. To get good it takes time, and you can't rush it or it will just take you longer. Lets face it, haste makes waste. However, if it was taking me longer than ten years I would want to know why. If ten years had passed and Im not at the level that I expect to be at I would want to know why and I don't see any problem with asking at that point. Some people say it would be disrespectful to ask, I would like to see where they're coming from.

 

[Tgace]

Yes this story has been posted on this forum before. Anyway, here is where Im coming from and I've said this before on this thread. If I was that student and the master told me it would take ten years to become a master swordsman as it is in the story, than I would expect to take ten years. To get good it takes time, and you can't rush it or it will just take you longer. Lets face it, haste makes waste. However, if it was taking me longer than ten years I would want to know why. If ten years had passed and Im not at the level that I expect to be at I would want to know why and I don't see any problem with asking at that point. Some people say it would be disrespectful to ask, I would like to see where they're coming from.

Some people...well....suck.

If someone I was training asked me "how long"? I may tell them the average student will reach proficiency in (X) years. YOU (the hypothetical "you"...not you) on the other hand may...well....suck.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I never liked that parable, you think Michael Jordan never strove to be the best? Or if we are going to keep it to swordsmanship, Miyamoto Musashi?

Sure he did but Michael Jordan was also patient. He practiced hard but the fact of the matter is that Jordan wasn't all that good at basketball when he was a kid. He even got cut from his high school basketball team so you can see just how patient he had to be to get to the level that he was at. At his prime Jordan was arguably the best basketball player in the entire history of the sport but if he hadn't been patient he might've not made it to that level. However, if Jordan got stuck or if he was having trouble reaching a certain level in basketball Im sure he wouldn't hesitate to ask his coach and I seriously doubt that would be seen as disrespectful.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I think your misunderstanding the point. The student was more interested in his timeline than he was in what was actually involved in learning the skill. His statement regarding ten years to mastery being "too long" is the point to this parable

Its like the student whos first question is "how many years till I get my black belt?". You get it when you deserve it.

Most instructors will tell a new student how long on the average it takes to get a black belt if the student asks. That doesn't mean the student will necessarily get a black belt in that amount of time, its just an average as to how long it takes most students. As to how long it takes the student to meet the instructor's standards for deserving the black belt, that would depend on the student and on stuff such as their attitude, their devotion, their commitment, and on whether or not they train smart as well as hard.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Some people...well....suck.

If someone I was training asked me "how long"? I may tell them the average student will reach proficiency in (X) years. YOU (the hypothetical "you"...not you) on the other hand may...well....suck.

You don't know beforehand if a new student is going to suck or not and usually its the students that suck that don't last. For a student to not suck, that depends most of all on the student's attitude. Its the students that suck that give up, that's why you don't see them around for long.

 

[Tgace]

The whole concept is erroneous though. You are a student your whole life. To think that there is some mysterious "THERE" point you can set is wrongminded.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Which approach is better?

1. You push yourself so hard, you hate it, and you finally quit.
2. You didn't push yourself too hard, you enjoy of doing it, and you are still doing it when you are 90 years old.

whenever I went to the gym and heard someone who painfully screamed when he tried to lift weight that more than he could handle, I always assume that person would quit some day.

 

[Tgace]

I think this is a mindset created by ranks and belts. A rather modern innovation.

 

[Tez3]

That's all fine and dandy but there does come a time when you've got to use your mouth. After all, its there for a reason, isn't it?

Yes but this isn't the sort of site that one can list the uses of the mouth on.

 

[ShotoNoob]

I like to be fashionably late. When I get there, the queue for the food is much shorter and those in front of me are all hot and sweaty.

|
OR, there is no food left--it's all been eaten....

 

[Transk53]

Yes but this isn't the sort of site that one can list the uses of the mouth on.

Please, we are British

 

[Transk53]

That's all fine and dandy but there does come a time when you've got to use your mouth. After all, its there for a reason, isn't it?

Yes. But you have to be able to back it up. In many cases one just has presence to lean on. That is cool, but equally one has to know when to be humble. Basically just shut up train and more importantly listen for that opening, or just listen. IMHO

 

[drop bear]

We would be more than happy for someone to walk into our gym and say he wants to be the best fighter in the world.

Then we would work him like a dog to help him achieve that.

Obviously if he trains harder and more often he will achieve more sooner.

Pushing for a black belt may be different. But then that is an issue with the belt system not the person.

 

[Transk53]

Pushing for a black belt may be different. But then that is an issue with the belt system not the person.

Think that is a bit Black and White. What about if the person is okay with what the art, just not brilliant. So therefore they cannot fit into "the system"?

 

[drop bear]

Think that is a bit Black and White. What about if the person is okay with what the art, just not brilliant. So therefore they cannot fit into "the system"?

That is fine as well.

 

[Transk53]

That is fine as well.

As long as there is something to compensate. Then again that would really suggest MMA really as the answer.

 

[drop bear]

As long as there is something to compensate. Then again that would really suggest MMA really as the answer.

For someone who wants to be rewarded for effort. Sort of yeah. I mean if you are doing martial arts that are slowing your progress down. I just don't see that.

Now if you want to cruise by. That is also fine.

There is room for both kinds of martial artists.

 

[Transk53]

For someone who wants to be rewarded for effort. Sort of yeah. I mean if you are doing martial arts that are slowing your progress down. I just don't see that.

Now if you want to cruise by. That is also fine.

There is room for both kinds of martial artists.

Well cruising by would okay if experimentation was taking place. Still though, if a person had their heart set on a particular art and struggling with it was what I was alluding to.