My point about going a mile distance

[drop bear]

Well cruising by would okay if experimentation was taking place. Still though, if a person had their heart set on a particular art and struggling with it was what I was alluding to.

Then they are really only going to get better at that art by spending time and effort on it.

My view is it is almost a basic numbers game. So to understand a technique you have to repeat it a thousand times.(this is just a random number) Now you can do that in a week or you can do that in five years.

It just depends on how much time and effort the person put in.

 

[Transk53]

Then they are really only going to get better at that art by spending time and effort on it.

My view is it is almost a basic numbers game. So to understand a technique you have to repeat it a thousand times.(this is just a random number) Now you can do that in a week or you can do that in five years.

It just depends on how much time and effort the person put in.

True. But there is no point putting effort in no matter how time and if for want of a better term, thier crap at it. For as many that fall in love with art, there are bound just as many who don't, plus a few who are unsure. Spend five years no problem, but they run the risk of turning into artitsts that while graded, could become disenchanted for good. Latter time won't solve that imho.

 

[PhotonGuy]

The whole concept is erroneous though. You are a student your whole life. To think that there is some mysterious "THERE" point you can set is wrongminded.

Well that's true. The journey itself is never ending. However there are points when you reach new legs in the journey.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Which approach is better?

1. You push yourself so hard, you hate it, and you finally quit.
2. You didn't push yourself too hard, you enjoy of doing it, and you are still doing it when you are 90 years old.

whenever I went to the gym and heard someone who painfully screamed when he tried to lift weight that more than he could handle, I always assume that person would quit some day.

I would say a balance. There does come a point when you are pushing yourself too hard and it becomes detrimental but you do have to push yourself to some extent if you want to make progress.

And as for pushing yourself too hard, take Bruce Lee for instance, he pushed himself harder than most people would imagine pushing themselves, and he always loved it and never quit.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I think this is a mindset created by ranks and belts. A rather modern innovation.

All systems and all skills and practices have rank of some sort. Even martial arts styles that don't use rank, they have a ranking system of a sort in that theres students and instructors and theres different levels of instructors, head instructor, senior instructor, assistant instructor, ect.

Even activities other than martial arts have ranks of some sort. In sports such as swimming and running how good you are is based on the time it takes you to run or swim to the finish line and when I was on the swim team back in the day you would be placed in a certain group depending on your skill level. So everything has ranks of some sort.

 

[PhotonGuy]

We would be more than happy for someone to walk into our gym and say he wants to be the best fighter in the world.

Then we would work him like a dog to help him achieve that.

Obviously if he trains harder and more often he will achieve more sooner.

Pushing for a black belt may be different. But then that is an issue with the belt system not the person.

Cool, I would love to train at your gym.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Yes. But you have to be able to back it up. In many cases one just has presence to lean on. That is cool, but equally one has to know when to be humble. Basically just shut up train and more importantly listen for that opening, or just listen. IMHO

I agree with being humble and all but shutting up and training isn't always the best thing to do if you want to progress and I speak from my own experience. I see nothing wrong with a student humbly asking what they need to do to get to the next belt or level, especially if its taking them longer than usual to advance. And besides, asking questions is a form of humility because by asking a question you're admitting that you don't know the answer because if you did know the answer you wouldn't be asking in the first place.

 

[Tez3]

Don't ask too humbly or be too humble because that's really annoying, smacks of boot licking to use a polite phrase.

 

[Transk53]

I agree with being humble and all but shutting up and training isn't always the best thing to do if you want to progress and I speak from my own experience. I see nothing wrong with a student humbly asking what they need to do to get to the next belt or level, especially if its taking them longer than usual to advance. And besides, asking questions is a form of humility because by asking a question you're admitting that you don't know the answer because if you did know the answer you wouldn't be asking in the first place.

Well yeah you have decent point there. Aside from some learning disadvantage, I really quite get the longer than usual to advance. Surely that is suggestive that a student may not necessarily being learning the right thing. Still though, the latter I agree with, although not necessarily the way you see it. There may just be a strand of knowledge that just needs a little substantiating, as opposed to not knowing completely, but in the main questions are good. I guess the real important thing is to ask at an appropriate time of the instructor. In this sense the students you are with are equally important if it is obvious that a student is struggling.

 

[K-man]

Well that's true. The journey itself is never ending. However there are points when you reach new legs in the journey.

I agree with the first part but I'm not so sure about the second. In my experience there are points along the path where you have to choose the direction you will take. It may be the path you choose brings you back to your original path or it may diverge. The paths you choose will be determined by a number of factors ... age, interests, time etc. Sometimes you might be on two or three paths at the same time and often those paths will cross or run side by side.

Reaching 'a new leg' implies that you are still on the same path.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

--Robert Frost

 

[K-man]

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

--Robert Frost

Exactly!

 

[PhotonGuy]

Don't ask too humbly or be too humble because that's really annoying, smacks of boot licking to use a polite phrase.

That's what they would expect out of you in the military, but then again, martial arts training isn't the military.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I agree with the first part but I'm not so sure about the second. In my experience there are points along the path where you have to choose the direction you will take. It may be the path you choose brings you back to your original path or it may diverge. The paths you choose will be determined by a number of factors ... age, interests, time etc. Sometimes you might be on two or three paths at the same time and often those paths will cross or run side by side.

Reaching 'a new leg' implies that you are still on the same path.

Your path can change but there are times when you do reach new legs and when you do reach a new leg your path might or might not change. For instance, in styles with ranking systems that use the black belt you could say the black belt is a new leg in the journey. I've known students that upon getting a brown belt or black belt start exploring and cross training in other styles. Quite often, after getting a black belt a student will train even harder than before they go it. Upon reaching black belt, they expect more out of you, but aside from that, you expect more out of yourself, so you could say its a new leg. For a more in depth discussion on this see my post in the General Mrtial Arts Talk folder.
Its about the journey not the destination MartialTalk.Com - Friendly Martial Arts Forum Community

 

[K-man]

Your path can change but there are times when you do reach new legs and when you do reach a new leg your path might or might not change. For instance, in styles with ranking systems that use the black belt you could say the black belt is a new leg in the journey. I've known students that upon getting a brown belt or black belt start exploring and cross training in other styles. Quite often, after getting a black belt a student will train even harder than before they go it. Upon reaching black belt, they expect more out of you, but aside from that, you expect more out of yourself, so you could say its a new leg. For a more in depth discussion on this see my post in the General Mrtial Arts Talk folder.
Its about the journey not the destination MartialTalk.Com - Friendly Martial Arts Forum Community

I would say that achieving a particular grade is a point along the way, not a change of direction. A new leg would imply a change of direction. That may be a different method of training or a change of instructors. What I was referring to was a point where you have the choice of continuing to train the way you were or leaving the path you are on and taking a different path.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I would say that achieving a particular grade is a point along the way, not a change of direction. A new leg would imply a change of direction. That may be a different method of training or a change of instructors. What I was referring to was a point where you have the choice of continuing to train the way you were or leaving the path you are on and taking a different path.

Here is the word "leg" as defined in the Marriam Webster dictionary.

1: a limb of an animal used especially for supporting the body and for walking: as

a (1) : one of the paired vertebrate limbs that in bipeds extend from the top of the thigh to the foot (2) : the part of such a limb between the knee and foot

b : the back half of a hindquarter of a meat animal

c : one of the rather generalized segmental appendages of an arthropod used in walking and crawling
2
a : a pole or bar serving as a support or prop <the legs of a tripod>

b : a branch of a forked or jointed object <the legs of a compass>
3
a : the part of an article of clothing that covers the leg

b : the part of the upper (as of a boot) that extends above the ankle
4
: obeisance, bow —used chiefly in the phrase to make a leg
5
: a side of a right triangle that is not the hypotenuse; also : a side of an isosceles triangle that is not the base
6
a : the course and distance sailed by a boat on a single tack
b : a portion of a trip : stage
c : one section of a relay race

d : one of several events or games necessary to be won to decide a competition <won the first two legs of horse racing's Triple Crown>
7
: a branch or part of an object or system
8
plural : long-term appeal or interest <a news story with legs>

The word leg, as we are using it, I would say fits the definition of 6b, "a portion of a trip : stage"
so you could say when you reach a new leg in a journey is a point along the way as you put it. You reach a certain point and then start on another portion of your trip or journey. That new portion can involve a change in direction or it might not. Much like if you're driving on a road trip, you stop for the night at a hotel, and then you continue on your trip. Your destination is the same, but when you reach the hotel and then from there continue on the rest of your trip, you could call that a new leg in your trip, but you aren't changing directions. The same thing with the martial arts. Although you can sometimes change direction in your martial arts training, that doesn't mean you always will and when you reach a certain point and then proceed forthwith, I would say that's reaching a new leg, whether you change direction or not. At least that's how it would best fit the definition of 6b.

 

[Tez3]

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

--Robert Frost

Thought you'd like this if you like that poem. Clive Fewins - Journalist Author - Exploring Churches