My coconut break

Please do not try to imitate or copy those training practices from videos, books, or the like.
That's kind of my whole thing sooo...

Ride or die baby.

Joking aside, I don't do iron palm. Unless striking the bean bag means iron palm.

When you say Chinese chi kung doing undesirable things can you tell me what you mean? And do you mean like certain esoteric practices? Or things like beating and massaging? Or do you mean any and all chi kung like 8 brocades and yijin jing?
 
That's kind of my whole thing sooo...

Ride or die baby.

Joking aside, I don't do iron palm. Unless striking the bean bag means iron palm.

When you say Chinese chi kung doing undesirable things can you tell me what you mean? And do you mean like certain esoteric practices? Or things like beating and massaging? Or do you mean any and all chi kung like 8 brocades and yijin jing?
Caution.
 
Yes. You need a skilled teacher. Itā€™s not as simple as reading a book.
I think this is a good general point. One can learn an awful lot from books and particularly Yootoob Sensei/Sifu but the feedback and subtle advice that an experienced teacher gives, will speed up oneā€™s learning enormously and help prevent misunderstandings and injury. Who would dream of trying to learn ballroom dancing or indeed singing from books/yootoob. I can be done but thereā€™s a strong possibility that you might end up like one of ā€˜those contestantā€™ in the the initial stages of X Factor!

But I understand there are many potential barriers to training with a physical teacher.
 
Well thank you. You havenā€™t seen what it looks,Ike shaved though. More like Jason Voorhees head.
Oh I imagine a beautifully shape quailā€™s egg, tip at 20 degrees from the vertical, point orientated anteriorly and inferiorlyā€¦šŸ„š
 
Thank you, I'll stop all that I'm doing until I find a skilled teacher.
Not saying you canā€™t study it and stretch and exercise, but some things like iron palm, bell, post, or wire can be injurious if done incorrectly over time. I canā€™t imagine being able to get the nuances without a teacher, but hey, Iā€™m not you and Iā€™m not in charge, do you. I teach an overhead punch that can wreck your shoulder if practiced incorrectly with a lot of force, just as an example, itā€™s not because of any mystical anything.
 
I think this is a good general point. One can learn an awful lot from books and particularly Yootoob Sensei/Sifu but the feedback and subtle advice that an experienced teacher gives, will speed up oneā€™s learning enormously and help prevent misunderstandings and injury. Who would dream of trying to learn ballroom dancing or indeed singing from books/yootoob. I can be done but thereā€™s a strong possibility that you might end up like one of ā€˜those contestantā€™ in the the initial stages of X Factor!

But I understand there are many potential barriers to training with a physical teacher.
That makes a lot of sense I understand now. You guys are right thank you.
 
That makes a lot of sense I understand now. You guys are right thank you.
I was struggling with making the correct distance in a movement in a kneeling position, where one places the blade of ones sword on the chest of oneā€™s imaginary enemy and with the other hand on the back of the blade and pushes them over before dispatching them. I just couldnā€™t get the shifting around and sliding around on my knees to make it look good, not matter how hard I tried. My teacher looked at my performance and said, ā€œAh, itā€™s your set-up two moves before thatā€™s not right. Try X, Y and Z.ā€ Sure enough it worked. I would never have figured it out!
 
I was struggling with making the correct distance in a movement in a kneeling position, where one places the blade of ones sword on the chest of oneā€™s imaginary enemy and with the other hand on the back of the blade and pushes them over before dispatching them. I just couldnā€™t get the shifting around and sliding around on my knees to make it look good, not matter how hard I tried. My teacher looked at my performance and said, ā€œAh, itā€™s your set-up two moves before thatā€™s not right. Try X, Y and Z.ā€ Sure enough it worked. I would never have figured it out!
Excellent anecdote. Last night I was teaching and I noticed two of the beginning students were ending up crossed and out of position on a basic combo punch drill. It was because they didnā€™t turn the waist to cock the punch before the step. It took about 5 minutes to correct it. They had no idea why they were ending up on the wrong foot. Most times I just point out that something isnā€™t right hoping that they see it and figure it out without too much help. Sometimes, like last night, people need some extra help.
 
Did it help him?
I don't know about that, but the medicine helps me for sure and I don't have his problem. Maybe I did train as hard as he did. I don't like to train on my fingers. I also don't like to train on the back of my palm.
 
Last edited:
Not saying you canā€™t study it and stretch and exercise, but some things like iron palm, bell, post, or wire can be injurious if done incorrectly over time. I canā€™t imagine being able to get the nuances without a teacher, but hey, Iā€™m not you and Iā€™m not in charge, do you. I teach an overhead punch that can wreck your shoulder if practiced incorrectly with a lot of force, just as an example, itā€™s not because of any mystical anything.
By way of example, when Tibetan Crane is done correctly all the movements are natural and should not cause injury to yourself. However, in the process of learning the method it is inevitable that it will NOT be done correctly, probably for some time. It takes a lot of repetition and repetitious corrections from a teacher who knows what he/she is talking about, before the student is consistently doing it correctly. If you do it incorrectly for long enough, you will end up with wrecked knees, wrecked shoulders, and wrecked lower back. Proper instruction is important. This is an example of how the physical training can injure you if you try and go it alone, without good instruction. My example of Tibetan Crane is especially appropriate here because it is a method that, to most people, looks odd. People do not know what to make of it. So it is very easy to get it wrong.

Internal, or Qi-gong training carries the same risks, but they are more subtle. They sometimes require unusual breathing patterns that might put stress on the cardio-vascular system. The physical side of this stuff, like iron palm, requires quality dit-da-jow, the liniment used during and after sessions to heal properly, in addition to quality instruction. If you do not have the proper jow, or any jow at all, or lack quality instruction, you are asking for trouble.

The big problem is, signs of trouble might come very slowly until the damage has been done. You do not realize you are injuring yourself and might keep doing so for a long time. This is especially true with the internal training. Once that happens, youā€™ve got a problem.

I have a personal theory that perhaps all training such as iron palm may ultimately lead to injury, regardless of your jow and the quality of your training. It may be that in ages gone, people gained the benefits of such training in the short term, but the general hard life of a peasant in a world without modern medicine and sanitation meant that most people simply did not live long enough to realize the damage they were doing to themselves. In the modern age with modern medicine and sanitation and people living into their 70s and up, perhaps only now do we recognize the damage inherent in such training. We are living long enough for those subtle and gradual injuries to make themselves known.

@Krisxylove, I used @Wing Woo Gar ā€˜s post as a tool to build upon with my thoughts, but this is simply to say that you are getting some good advice here: without good instruction you are likely to have a lot of frustration in your training, and some of it can actually be dangerous. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but if there is any way that you can, you must find a good teacher.
 
I was struggling with making the correct distance in a movement in a kneeling position, where one places the blade of ones sword on the chest of oneā€™s imaginary enemy and with the other hand on the back of the blade and pushes them over before dispatching them. I just couldnā€™t get the shifting around and sliding around on my knees to make it look good, not matter how hard I tried. My teacher looked at my performance and said, ā€œAh, itā€™s your set-up two moves before thatā€™s not right. Try X, Y and Z.ā€ Sure enough it worked. I would never have figured it out!
I do recognize that I'm in an early stage in my training. Also I've never considered the defensive applications from any of the movements so that makes me a newbie compared to a lot of people here. My experience this far is really monkey see monkey do. And learning the forms from youtube really forced me to slow everything down and internalize it until I get the smooth and coordinated flow to where I can do it quickly and it feels right. I definitely was not making an argument for training without a teacher though. I would love to have a teacher I'm probably initial stage X factor lol. I've just seen monks who demonstrate luohan quan that I don't care too much about and other monks who I'd much rather imitate. Even if it's just a personal preference.
 

Latest Discussions

Back
Top