muay thai health hazards

[muayThaiPerson]

I posted this on a General since it has more traffic.

Theres been a lot goin around that when a Muay Thai fighter gets old, the body is weaker than average. Supposebly due to the punishment. But i dont understand the concept of this. If a fighter has stronger than average shins, then how do they end up weaker than other people later on? and the Muay Thai training great. It builds the cardiovascular organs/muscles, fighters are in wayy better shape than the average joe. So can someone explain to me how this happens?

 

[white belt]

Though I don't have personal experience in that respectable art, I may have a clue as to the reasoning behind the body wear of a serious MT fighter. Studies have been done on test subjects involved in Iron Man Triathalon competitions. A field of regional top competitors were found to have abnormal wear and tear on their cardiac tissues and spine/joint stability after approx. 4-5 years of serious training. The findings were a shock to fans and competitors alike because of the very high performance of these athletes. The best explanation/theory I have heard so far is that the extremely prolonged intense hardship put on the body causes it to go through a constant circuitous cycle of catabolism of the internal organs and conective tissues during serious, hard, prolonged training and main events without proper rest and refueling. Kind of like a power lifter lifting his max. lifts in the squat, deadlift and bench repeatedly over the course of several hours every single day of the week. An eventual decrease in performance/plateauing would happen and the resultant tissue damage would slowly turn to scarring, lack of circulation, etc. from the body's fuel residues compiling and reaching localized toxic levels. Advanced and Premature Aging would then result. This could possibly explain the MT fighters retiring mostly in their early 20's.

white belt

 

[MartialArtist]

As the body gets older, a lot of people can't stick to the "hard" arts and many adopt a softer style of their version.

But still, I see many old guys above 60 doing muay thai. They can beat a lot of the younger, inexperienced guys at training but the only health hazard that is of any danger is when the old guy tries to compete. Competition is for younger people. Older guys are to help the younger guys compete, to help them train, to help them grow so they can become the "old guy" later on and pass it on.

The average muay thai boxer has weaker shins later on? Is there any study on this? Until then, I have my doubts. But it can make some sense with all the punishment your shins went through, and like what white belt said, the nerves are just... Ick.

A lot of people in combat sports don't have very long careers compared to say, baseball. Football careers average at 4 years. People like Jerry Rice are rare.

Anyone have a study on bone density compared with average people with the average muay thai practitioner?

 

[sweeper]

I don't see how MT could give you weaker shins, I have heard this also but I haven't seen any medical studies on the subject and though I havn't spoken to a doctor I do have a freind who asked his doctor (though he wasn't a sports specialist) and his doctor said he couldn't see a physiological reason for it.

white belt, wouldn't that apply to anyone who pushed their body in an indurance sport, for example marathon runners, posably western boxers,etc?

I did read somewhere that running more than 35 miles on average a week could start to impair your immune system but there was no source for that information (think it was in a magazine or something) so I don't know how true it is.

 

[white belt]

Sweeper,

I would think you would be correct in that assumption about Marathoners and other long duration athletes. I would think it is worse in fighters. The bone marrow in the body is part of the immune system. If the marrow is damaged, then I could see how the health implications overall are amplified. Structurally the bone may be harder, but the marrow itself may be losing it's proper functioning. Just a guess! Studying up on some of the militaristic day long workouts of Muay Thai camps, I would almost think that the camp activities, over a long period of time, would be harder on the body in the long term than the fights! Just my observations.

white belt

 

[muayThaiPerson]

I dont think bone marrow can be damaged like that. The only way i know is through mutation, even then its not damaged, just changed. please eloborate

 

[white belt]

Muay Thai Person,

I am no expert. Just trying to share ideas about how the bone is weakened. If it is not weakened structurally, then logic points to secondary functions of some sort such as immune system. Just an educated guess. If nutrition is not adequate with the right minerals, etc. then I could see how the aging process could be brought on sooner. This is a really good question you have brought up! My question now is, is the problem basically structural or functional of nature? Where have you come into contact with this subject?

white belt

 

[white belt]

Muay Thai Person,

There is a guy named Damian Mavis who frequents the MT forum. He is a TKD man who crosstrains in Muay Thai. In fact he posted about training in Thailand FROM Thailand recently. Get him in on the subject if possible. He seems pretty knowledgable.

white belt

 

[MartialArtist]

I searched around. There are absolutely NO STUDIES that I have found. If anyone has any study, post it, but until then...

And it can't just be one study by an unknown group, but a good study conducted by a reputable source. A study in like 1940 said that weight lifting stunted growth. It was a small company that didn't even have a control group and had so many variables. But the study was used as "proof" by doctors (which many don't know a thing about matters in sports medicine as compared with say, even regular trainers) but about a million studies came afterwards saying that it was a myth.

 

[sweeper]

well in mauy thai to the best of my knowledge your shin bones don't get thicker, in fact alot of the strengthening of bone can be attributed to exercise, unles you were to repeatedly break your bones and not have them heal correctly I don't think your marrow would be affected. Also even if you did break your bones alot I'm not sure how much it would affect your marrow, for example it's posable to "donate" bone marrow with relativly minimal long term side effects (as far as I know the only long term effects would be if you got sick directly after you donated).

My guess would be that it's a myth..

 

[birney29]

I practise muay thai and i have a theory. I dont think the shins get stronger at all. well, not much anyway. i think they simply appear stronger, because all the heavy kicks, bag work ect ect, kills the nerves on the surface of the shin. This lessens the pain felt, giving an illisuion of stronger shins.

Just a thoery!

 

[white belt]

Well, so far we have three options:

1) Structural bone weakening.

2) Marrow malfunction.

3) Urban myth.

Anyone have a FOURTH?

white belt

 

[Marginal]

Main things I've heard about weaker shins ervolve aroudn bone chips getting lose into the blood stream, and possible development of arthritis. Both seem rather moot though unless you're a very busy professional fighter. (Not really a great number of all MT pracitioners in other words.)

 

[white belt]

Bone chips in the blood? OUCH!

white belt

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Originally posted by birney29
I practise muay thai and i have a theory. I dont think the shins get stronger at all. well, not much anyway. i think they simply appear stronger, because all the heavy kicks, bag work ect ect, kills the nerves on the surface of the shin. This lessens the pain felt, giving an illisuion of stronger shins.

Just a thoery!

Im sorry but you are wrong about that. The shins are really harder, if u get kicked by a professional as opposed to a normal ol joes shin, youll notice the difference. When one of my instructors held a thick pad to his shins so i can low kick, i felt his shins right through the pad. It was rock hard. And i blocked a kick from a guy who has been training for 2 years, his shins were hard as rock also

 

[birney29]

well, i could believe that they would feel harder, because of muscle, and low body fat. Im not a doctor(but i play one on TV) but i just dont believe the human body would pack on extra bone in this area. the only place i know in the body that does this is the collar bone

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by white belt
Bone chips in the blood? OUCH!

white belt

Certain death! So that is just not possible. Someone is talking out of the wrong end of his anatomy.

 

[white belt]

Originally posted by birney29
well, i could believe that they would feel harder, because of muscle, and low body fat. Im not a doctor(but i play one on TV) but i just dont believe the human body would pack on extra bone in this area. the only place i know in the body that does this is the collar bone

Not correct sir! My hands are proof of a gradual change in bone density from impacting a firm surface. There are scientific ways of doing this, to lessen potential long term damage, and stupid haphazard ways. Muay Thai Person! Maybe the aforementioned also applies to conditioning the shins(?). Proper shin training ensures good health, improper MT training causes premature aging and bone damage(?).

white belt

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

I heard that in Thailand there are lots of washout among the Muay Thai trainees due to injury or defeat, whatever. Words are life is pretty cheap over there. For every one that makes it in the ring, 10 are crippled, maimed or died.

 

[sweeper]

Originally posted by birney29
well, i could believe that they would feel harder, because of muscle, and low body fat. Im not a doctor(but i play one on TV) but i just dont believe the human body would pack on extra bone in this area. the only place i know in the body that does this is the collar bone

You cary next to no body fat on your shin, you are hitting with bone, that's it.