Mom, why are we in a lock down?

[Lisa]

I just was on the phone with the school's guidance counsellor. As it stands the school division has just finally adopted a "lock down" policy in the division and steps were being taken to go school to school and practice these lock down procedures with the kids. My youngest daughter's school is scheduled for March 21/07.

I expressed my concerns with the lack of information given to the kids and also explained why my daughter felt the need to speak to me via text. The guidance counsellor told me that it didn't surprise him at all that the children went to the parents via tex messaging considering they had never even heard of "lock down" procedures before that day. He knew, of course, that children will contact those they love and trust to get the answers that they aren't getting from the school and that they now have policies and procedures to deal with those situations. He said they already had to deal with them to some extent as the children remained in lock down after the bell had rang and parents, curious as to why their kids weren't coming out of the school began phoning and coming to the door.

 

[shesulsa]

I just was on the phone with the school's guidance counsellor. As it stands the school division has just finally adopted a "lock down" policy in the division and steps were being taken to go school to school and practice these lock down procedures with the kids. My youngest daughter's school is scheduled for March 21/07.

I expressed my concerns with the lack of information given to the kids and also explained why my daughter felt the need to speak to me via text. The guidance counsellor told me that it didn't surprise him at all that the children went to the parents via tex messaging considering they had never even heard of "lock down" procedures before that day. He knew, of course, that children will contact those they love and trust to get the answers that they aren't getting from the school and that they now have policies and procedures to deal with those situations. He said they already had to deal with them to some extent as the children remained in lock down after the bell had rang and parents, curious as to why their kids weren't coming out of the school began phoning and coming to the door.

Forgive me, I've been multi-tasking when reading this thread.

It makes sense that they took these measures in what sounds like a situation that could have turned disastrous without drill and I think it was a responsible decision for them to make, even if this had to go down without a drill.

So, again, please forgive the caffeine-free fog, and know I'm VERY glad everyone's all right, that your girls are no worse for the wear and that your school district has now officially implemented a tactic which is likely the best one to take in these kinds of circumstances.

 

[Ceicei]

Another Utah lockdown in today's newspaper. Below is an excerpt that caught my attention from the article:

Jones' mother, Bobbi, said she learned about the incident when she picked her son up from school. She said she is grateful for the quick action taken by law enforcement and school officials but wishes something had been sent home with her son explaining what had happened.

"I wish there had been more information given to the parents about why there was a lockdown," Jones said. "It's kind of scary to have that happen."

Link to article:

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660203359,00.html

- Ceicei

 

[Eternal Beginner]

I think it's understandable that a girl who has never been in a lockdown would text her parents if she never even knew what a lockdown was.

I'm amazed that the district did not brief the children on the first day of school what a lockdown was, what the rules were, why, etcetera.

It surprises me as well because my daughter is in the same school division and the children are fully aware of what lockdown involves and practice drills. I think the concern here is with administration of those particular schools, rather than individual children's reactions.

Information can calm a lot of fears.

 

[Ceicei]

Thinking back to the lockdown my son was in, it would have been nearly impossible to prevent children/parents from contacting each other anyway. This is human nature, a powerful need for loved ones to contact each other in times of stress.

The police knew that, so when they determined the lockdown would start, they had already set up a perimeter barrier around the schools stretching about a block or two away from each entrance onto the school grounds. They knew the parents would come, so they were prepared. No one is allowed to go through the barrier to the school, and conversely, no one allowed to leave the school buildings. This perimeter is also to enable them to search the immediate areas right next to and within the school grounds.

This lockdown was well executed by the police/SWAT teams. As had been often noted in this thread, it would have been great if the school administration would have done more to notify the students and/or parents better. The school administrators seem to worry more about the appropriateness of sharing information.

In spite of the reluctance of the schools to explain what was going on, the parents who were waiting at the perimeter got some of the information from the police manning the points as well as from the news media. That was how the students were informed more of the details when they contacted their parents by cell phones (many via text messages).

I will have to give kudos for the school to finally step up to say more about the situation after the first hour of the lockdown. I guess the threat decreased by then and they felt reasonably safe to explain as well as to dispel rumors that were multiplying.

- Ceicei

 

[Kreth]

It surprises me as well because my daughter is in the same school division and the children are fully aware of what lockdown involves and practice drills. I think the concern here is with administration of those particular schools, rather than individual children's reactions.

Information can calm a lot of fears.

Was there a point to this other than sniping at the OP?

 

[Lisa]

It surprises me as well because my daughter is in the same school division and the children are fully aware of what lockdown involves and practice drills. I think the concern here is with administration of those particular schools, rather than individual children's reactions.

Information can calm a lot of fears.

It doesn't suprise me at all and it has nothing to do with the administration of the school. It has to do with the fact that the school division has only just adopted this policy this year and is going to each school to help the administration of the school familiarize themselves with the policies. As I said upthread, my daughter's school is scheduled for March 21st. My older daughter informed me that this had been done at her school, only she was away at the time. I was reassured by the guidance counsellor yesterday that they will be performing lock down drills from now on.

As for no note going home the afternoon of the incident. It occurred at 2:50 pm and the children are usually out at 3:15. They didn't get released until 3:35, in truth the school had no time to prep and distribute a response to the children. They did, however, have one ready when they returned to school the next day and the administration stayed after school and spoke to parents on a one to one basis, giving them all the information they had, which, wasn't much. According to the guidance councellor yesterday, they still don't know details and probably never will.

 

[shesulsa]

It surprises me as well because my daughter is in the same school division and the children are fully aware of what lockdown involves and practice drills. I think the concern here is with administration of those particular schools, rather than individual children's reactions.

Information can calm a lot of fears.

Oh, do you and Lisa know each other?

 

[Eternal Beginner]

Was there a point to this other than sniping at the OP?

Sorry, don't know what you mean by "sniping at the OP"...

I was hoping to clarify that I wasn't faulting Lisa's kids for looking to their parent for answers - that is what most kids do. What I was saying is that in my kids school, they are told not to and it seems for valid reasons. If Lisa's kids are being kept in the dark, that is very scary and I think it should be changed...no "sniping" intended.

The school division has only adopted this policy so it is new and there are still some glitches. My daughter was lucky that they have had previous preparation and my son is in a different division that has practiced lockdown drills in past years. Lockdowns drills are important, just as important as fire evacuation drills and bus evacuation drill. My children have done for years but have never needed them thankfully, but I am glad they know what to do in case of emergency - same with lockdowns.

 

[Jade Tigress]

I was hoping to clarify that I wasn't faulting Lisa's kids for looking to their parent for answers - that is what most kids do.What I was saying is that in my kids school, they are told not to and it seems for valid reasons.

I'm a bit confused by this. Are you saying your kids are taught at school not to seek their parents for answers? Personally, I would be very upset with any school district teaching my children not to come to me with their questions. If the school hasn't provided the information they need, it makes sense they would ask me for it instead. If the school has provided adequate information, then there would be no questions left. Seems logical to me.

 

[jks9199]

Actually, more schools are going into "lockdown" type situations as neighborhoods and police are taking no chances anymore on crime spilling over into the schoolyard. Example; when I was in school, we were only locked down only once (they didn't call it that then) and that was when a fugitive was thought to have entered school grounds fleeing from a robbery (he hadn't). By the time my younger sister was in High School, they would keep children confined in classrooms, the library or the cafeteria even for an incident blocks away. Times have changed since you and I were kids!

That's another good point; a lock down isn't always a response to a threat AT or TO the school. There may be a police incident or other situation nearby, and keeping the kids inside is just a move to avoid tragic freak accidents or avoid adding one more level of chaos to an already chaotic situation. Other times, lock downs are simply response to possibilities... For example, a few years back, I spent several days guarding kids as they arrived and left school, and they weren't allowed out at all during the day when Mohammad and Malvo were running around the DC area. (I also searched more white vans than I ever want to remember!)

There might just have been a crash with a possible HAZMAT concern in the area, and until the risk is known and the wind direction is determined... keep the kids in school, in one place.

Lock downs are, in other words, sometimes just people management tools.

 

[Lisa]

There might just have been a crash with a possible HAZMAT concern in the area, and until the risk is known and the wind direction is determined... keep the kids in school, in one place.

Lock downs are, in other words, sometimes just people management tools.

This is also very true. My husband works for he local electric company and he told me that his company can go to the police and ask for a lock down if there is an emergency hazzard in the area that needs to be dealt with and could be hazzardous to the kids. Its part of crowd control, a downed hydro line is a great curiousity.

 

[jks9199]

Good grief! For once I was left (almost) speechless! I have never heard of lockdown in a school! Here it is entirely a thing that happens in prisons. My children are well beyond school age but when I take the children's MA class tomorrow I shall elicit some opinions from parents and post them up. I think I'm totally horrified but I do wonder what procedures we have in place apart from fire practices.

A lockdown is just a procedure where kids are kept in the school during an incident. They came about following the Columbine shooting, among other things; previously, they had just "been done" without any special name for the procedure. Many schools have different levels of lockdown; at the bottom, outdoor activities are cancelled and classes that may be held in external classrooms or facilities (like the trailer classrooms many schools use when students exceed building) are squeezed inside. At the highest level... NOBODY moves outside a classroom, and very possibly not even inside. Students stay where they are when it starts, and they don't move until released. A tornado alert or HAZMAT incident or bank robbery nearby might trigger the bottom level; an active-shooter situation (gunman in the school) or other serious, immediate threat to students within the school would result in the top. I've also seen the top level used as the initial response to a bomb threat at the school; that way, you don't have kids moving around and possibly finding the bomb.

 

[jks9199]

Scary that kids have to worry about lockdowns, but I would rather they be prepared than at risk if a situation develops. From my understanding, a lot of these issues and the need for "lockdowns" is parent custody issues. They need to lock down schools if a "prohibited" parent is trying to access a student and the easiest way to make sure the one student is safe is if they can easily and quickly ascertain where said student is and make sure that they can control a situation before it escalates.

I've responded to a few of those. The absolute last thing we want to have to deal with when we've already got one (or more) irate parent/guardian is lots more kids... Try calming someone down while a small army of kids is being marched onto the bus, and they're wanting to know where THEIR child is! Then there are the well meaning parents who try to "help"...

A few requests... If cops are there, and trying to work something out, don't stick your nose into it unless someone's bleeding to death and you're a doctor/nurse/EMT. And even then... ASK FIRST. (Unless, of course, you want to find yourself with an insider's view of a fire fight...) Seriously, we may have info that you don't know, no matter how well you know Mrs. So&So or Mr. Such&such...

And forgive the cop who responds more than a little gruffly to any sort of "what's going? Can I help?" type crap... While it wasn't at a school, I once had a homeowner's association president walk up while I'm dealing with 3 people, in a foreign language, and trying to sort out where #4 got to, and why he vanished... And the HOA president wanted to know what I was doing. I ended up explaining a less than polite response to my sergeant and captain on that one... He'd already called before I got done with the jerks!

 

[jks9199]

And the lockdown here, the child text messaged her dad.

I can understand needing to be quiet but I have no issues with a child text-messaging their parents telling them they are in a lockdown.

I do...

I was going to hold off on this, but, if the lockdown is in response to a bomb threat... We don't want extraneous radio frequency chatter (to include cell phones and car alarm buttons) going on. We don't know what will trigger the bomb; many IEDs are triggered by a cell phone call. Some triggers can go off at a strong enough radio signal nearby... Which can kinda ruin someone's day if they're trying to safely remove the bomb.

(That's also why you see signs to turn off 2-way radios and cell phones in blasting zones...)

 

[Andrew Green]

If that was the case, everyone would get instructions to turn off all cellphones and wireless devices immediately. People have no control over incoming calls / messages.

 

[Carol]

I do...

I was going to hold off on this, but, if the lockdown is in response to a bomb threat... We don't want extraneous radio frequency chatter (to include cell phones and car alarm buttons) going on. We don't know what will trigger the bomb; many IEDs are triggered by a cell phone call. Some triggers can go off at a strong enough radio signal nearby... Which can kinda ruin someone's day if they're trying to safely remove the bomb.

(That's also why you see signs to turn off 2-way radios and cell phones in blasting zones...)

It is a risk on paper. However the 600 mW max. output of apersonal commuciations device does not radiate a strong enough field to set an explosive simply by proximity. If such devices were truly a risk to blasting zones, there would be unfortunate accidents: between OnStar, GPS units, satellite radios, cell phones, wireless PDAs, broadband internet access cards, there are many RF gadgets that assuredly don't get turned off when drivers approach them.

I can understand the desire for public safety officials to need every possible advantage in their favor when dealing with a deadly threat. I certainly don't want our first responders to have a tougher time than they do. But these children aren't the government's kids, they are their parent's kids. Plus, the practicality seems reminicent of King Canute trying to hold back the tides with his bare hands.

 

[Drac]

That's another good point; a lock down isn't always a response to a threat AT or TO the school. There may be a police incident or other situation nearby, and keeping the kids inside is just a move to avoid tragic freak accidents or avoid adding one more level of chaos to an already chaotic situation.
There might just have been a crash with a possible HAZMAT concern in the area, and until the risk is known and the wind direction is determined... keep the kids in school, in one place. Lock downs are, in other words, sometimes just people management tools.

I do...



but, if the lockdown is in response to a bomb threat... We don't want extraneous radio frequency chatter (to include cell phones and car alarm buttons) going on. We don't know what will trigger the bomb; many IEDs are triggered by a cell phone call. Some triggers can go off at a strong enough radio signal nearby... Which can kinda ruin someone's day if they're trying to safely remove the bomb.(That's also why you see signs to turn off 2-way radios and cell phones in blasting zones...)

Bravo..Well said...

 

[jks9199]

It is a risk on paper. However the 600 mW max. output of apersonal commuciations device does not radiate a strong enough field to set an explosive simply by proximity. If such devices were truly a risk to blasting zones, there would be unfortunate accidents: between OnStar, GPS units, satellite radios, cell phones, wireless PDAs, broadband internet access cards, there are many RF gadgets that assuredly don't get turned off when drivers approach them.

I can understand the desire for public safety officials to need every possible advantage in their favor when dealing with a deadly threat. I certainly don't want our first responders to have a tougher time than they do. But these children aren't the government's kids, they are their parent's kids. Plus, the practicality seems reminicent of King Canute trying to hold back the tides with his bare hands.

The problem with comparing a homemade bomb trigger to professional/commercial equipment is that most homegrown bomb makers aren't electronics experts. (Hell... Every year we discover a couple of pipe bomb makers when they aren't careful screwing the end caps on, and generate enough friction to ignite some grains, triggering the whole pipe bomb...) We just don't know what they've done, how they've set it to trigger, and so on -- or what mistakes they've made. And we just don't like to let Mr. Murphy get involved in a situation like that.I'm not a bomb squad officer; I don't want to be one. I played enough with homegrown explosives during my youth that I respect the hell out of them... Currently, there are two primary methods police bomb units use to deal with a bomb. They either remove it (in a very impressive container vehicle) or they use various methods (water cannon, shotguns, and more) to set it off in place. They very seldom try to disarm a bomb... Mistakes just seem to ruin people's days.

Yes, it's a low likliehood that a cell phone, or even our police radios will set off the bomb. And it's often impractical, especially in today's world, to shut everything off in the area. OK... let me rephrase that. It's all but impossible to do so. But we still try. Also -- there's a very simple side concern. ANY radio transmission can be picked up by someone else; there are commercially available scanners that can pick up cell phone calls, and even that can track our police comms gear. We've had incidents where press coverage alone gave away a tactical approach on buildings; we now take that into account. And we don't have the luxury of assuming that the bad guys don't have these things or watch TV.

 

[kidswarrior]

It is a risk on paper. However the 600 mW max. output of apersonal commuciations device does not radiate a strong enough field to set an explosive simply by proximity. If such devices were truly a risk to blasting zones, there would be unfortunate accidents: between OnStar, GPS units, satellite radios, cell phones, wireless PDAs, broadband internet access cards, there are many RF gadgets that assuredly don't get turned off when drivers approach them.

If I knew what you just said, I could turn it into Big Bucks. :idunno: But alas, the dog's too old, the tricks're too new. OK, bowing out now.