Mom Barred From Park For Breast Feeding

[Steve]

I didn't think I was. I thought I was pointing out an internal inconsistency. Hmmm, something about not being able to use each other's yardsticks that I mentioned in another thread - I should take my own advice. Bowing out now.

You're a riot, Bill, comparing feeding a baby to spitting, picking one's nose, and farting, stirring things up and then standing back like Urkel saying, "Did I do that?"

 

[Big Don]

Thanks for calling BS on Big Don's remark.

As for the park manager: I don't want to eat my lunch in a bathroom; babies shouldn't have to, either. Now, I'll admit that there are some women who do stupid stuff like leave their shirts open for their nipples to dry, but the vast majority of breastfeeding women feed their babies discreetly, showing much less skin than your average teenager. (NOt to mention the fact that people don't get upset about bare-chested men in public.) There's nothing disgusting, sexual, or prurient about nursing a child--if you think there is, the problem lies in your own psyche.

I was very discreet (nobody ever saw anything but the back of my babies' heads when I nursed in public), and I nursed my oldest for 13 months and my youngest for 3 and a half years. Infants need to eat when they need to eat--not at pre-set times. The only way to avoid breastfeeding in public is to sequester mother and child for a year or more. The the physical and psychological health benefits of breastfeeding are way more important than somebody accidentally getting an eyeful, anyway. /soapbox

How interesting that you, yourself practiced discretion and never had a problem breastfeeding wherever you happened to be, and yet, you take me to task for merely mentioning that discretion is called for.

 

[MJS]

Discretion is the keyword missed by these "poor oppressed mothers". My little sister is currently breast feeding, but, knows there is a time and a place for it. She doesn't yank off her shirt in a park or shopping mall to feed the baby. If these "poor oppressed mothers" had some class and discretion, there wouldn't be stories like this ever.

IMO, I think discretion is the key word here. I'm sure there're some women who dont think twice about doing this, and others that do take other people into consideration.

I'm not familiar with the park in question, so I dont know if there was a more private, discrete area around, but I suppose this would be no different than changing the child. Frankly, the sight of someone exposing a diaper full of ****, in public view is pretty gross. Some people may not want their child to see this. Taking the child to the bathroom, to the car or a more private area of the park, may've been a better option.

 

[MJS]

In what way is it different? It is a bodily function, agreed? And it is an excretion.

Most of our excretory functions are performed in private. Breathing and sweating are examples of excretory functions that we perform everywhere, but they are involuntary. The rest we either perform in private or we generally wish people would.

When I was stationed in Okinawa, there were still villages with benjo ditches. Public urination wasn't considered a private function. Doesn't mean it was extra special nifty and cool, it just meant that their standards were a little different than ours.

I'm not squicked by breastfeeding in public, but I don't think it's something wonderful and lovely, either. I don't run screaming out of the building if someone farts in a conference room. We live with it; doesn't mean it's super great.

Bodily function or not, there is still a right and wrong way to do something. I work in a medium sized area. Frankly, if I'm eating my dinner, and one of my co-workers decides to fart, I shouldn't have to smell ****, while I'm trying to eat. Excuse yourself, go outside, to the bathroom, or hold it.

 

[MJS]

You're intentionally baiting the subject and trying to stir the pot. As you've made perfectly clear, we're all entitled to our opinions, but at this point, bringing it up in multiple posts on this thread, it's pretty clear you're trolling for an argument. It's telling that you compare it to picking one's nose, rather than blowing one's nose. One can be done politely and isn't a big deal to most people. The other is almost universally considered pretty gross. It's clear you went out of your way to shake things up.

Where you see an excretion, I personally see it as having more to do with eating publicly than farting. If you think it's distasteful, that's fine. You've made that very clear. I don't find it so. Others clearly don't, either.

Again, personally, the only thing that raised an eyebrow for me was the age of the baby. I think that, in general, babies are a little old for formula or nursing when they can ask to be fed in complete sentences.

The age of the kid caught my attention too, as well as the cop in the article. I've been out and about, and have seen much worse things than this. I simply dont look. If someone else doesnt have enough class to take others into consideration, then what can I say.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

2 isn't too old to breastfeed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breastfeeding

Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breastfeeding_in_public#United_States


Bottom line, it's natural, it's not indecent, folks need to get over their "boobie fetish".
It's also got a growing amount of legal protection.
So, my opinion is, the mom's in the right, the cops/park not.

 

[Steve]

For the record, I don't ever intend to get over my boobie fetish. I'm a fan!

 

[crushing]

For the record, I don't ever intend to get over my boobie fetish. I'm a fan!

You know that is pretty much the same as nasophilia, right?

 

[girlbug2]

I have breastfed my two kids for a total of 3 1/2 years, been around dozens of other breastfeeding moms that I was aware of, and countless others that I wasn't aware of, and NEVER have I seen one of them just "yank off their clothes" in public or in private. It doesn't happen. Women raised in this culture are far too conscious of the social taboos of exposing themselves, and take great pains to avoid letting anybody see even the tiniest scrap of breast when feeding their babies (ironic, that nobody gets riled up when non-breastfeeding ladies show plunging cleavage). There are specially made bras and outerwear that I have worn just for this purpose. Or, I have covered myself and the baby with a blanket when necessary.

In short, I call shenanigans on the park service.

 

[MBuzzy]

IMO, I think discretion is the key word here. I'm sure there're some women who dont think twice about doing this, and others that do take other people into consideration.

I'm not familiar with the park in question, so I dont know if there was a more private, discrete area around, but I suppose this would be no different than changing the child. Frankly, the sight of someone exposing a diaper full of ****, in public view is pretty gross. Some people may not want their child to see this. Taking the child to the bathroom, to the car or a more private area of the park, may've been a better option.

So the argument here is that mothers should use discretion. So who defines that? What is discretion? To me, that means don't unnecessarily expose herself....I don't want my wife exposed as much as anyone else, I don't want anyone else looking at her! But where did location come into discretion and where do we draw that line? People use the slippery slope argument quite frequently. So we start saying you can't do it around people who it offends. Then you can't do it in public. Then you have to be locked in a closet? All because it makes you uncomfortable? We're not talking about bodily excrement or anything unsanitary.

Bottom line here, I refuse to send or allow my wife to be sent to the toilet to feed our child. There is nothing shameful about it and she shouldn't have to be ashamed or move somewhere else.

People are just going to have to get used to it, it isn't going away, and lately EVERYONE who denies a woman or makes some comment is ending up with some very bad press and a bunch of angry protesters. Not something any business or government agency wants around. Oh yeah and all those people....ended up apologizing.

Bodily function or not, there is still a right and wrong way to do something. I work in a medium sized area. Frankly, if I'm eating my dinner, and one of my co-workers decides to fart, I shouldn't have to smell ****, while I'm trying to eat. Excuse yourself, go outside, to the bathroom, or hold it.

Ok - Farting and breastfeeding - two WAY different things. One is EXCREMENT, one is nourishment.

 

[Carol]

To borrow a criticism of PETA...

...its easier to harass young women nursing than it is to harass a bunch of bikers.

(no offense to bikers...love you guys/gals )

If the demographics of the average nursing mother was equivalent to the demographics of the average biker tough guy...we wouldn't be hearing much about this at all, methinks.

 

[Steve]

You know that is pretty much the same as nasophilia, right?

Lol. You're right, I guess, if we buy the nose picking/breast feeding analogy. I think boobs are way sexier than noses though.

Carol, that's an excellent point!

 

[CanuckMA]

First off, I'll state that I'm in favour of allowing women to breastfeed wherever and whenever they please/need to.

However, I do see a distinction between breastfeeding an infant whose primary diet consyts of breast milk, and a 2 year old who should be mostly on solids. If the 2 year old gets hungry in public, there are other things that could be fed. Someone mentioned discretion, that is one example.

The park is still totally in the wrong.

 

[MJS]

So the argument here is that mothers should use discretion. So who defines that? What is discretion? To me, that means don't unnecessarily expose herself....I don't want my wife exposed as much as anyone else, I don't want anyone else looking at her! But where did location come into discretion and where do we draw that line? People use the slippery slope argument quite frequently. So we start saying you can't do it around people who it offends. Then you can't do it in public. Then you have to be locked in a closet? All because it makes you uncomfortable? We're not talking about bodily excrement or anything unsanitary.

Bottom line here, I refuse to send or allow my wife to be sent to the toilet to feed our child. There is nothing shameful about it and she shouldn't have to be ashamed or move somewhere else.

People are just going to have to get used to it, it isn't going away, and lately EVERYONE who denies a woman or makes some comment is ending up with some very bad press and a bunch of angry protesters. Not something any business or government agency wants around. Oh yeah and all those people....ended up apologizing.

In the end, I suppose it comes down to good, old fashioned common sense. Of course, that will no doubt vary from person to person. As I said, I've seen worse, so the sight of someone at the next table in the restaurant breast feeding isnt going to make me ask for the check early, grab my wife and get up and leave. As I said, I simply wont look. Could someone use a blanket, strategically placed so nothing was showing? Of course. OTOH, some will feel that they shouldn't have to. IMO, those are the ones that are not exercising common sense. But as I said, if the woman isnt worried about showing passerbys her breast, if her husband doesnt care, then thats fine. Again, I wont look.

Ok - Farting and breastfeeding - two WAY different things. One is EXCREMENT, one is nourishment.

This was a comment from me in response to an earlier post by Bill.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Personally, I don't care much either way; I'm not offended, but I don't much care to see it, either.

The thing with breastfeeding is that you don't even see any breasts.
At least the women I've seen breast feed keep one breast covered, and the other one has a baby in front of it. This must mean that people complained just because they were reminded of the existence and biological purpose of breasts, rather than because they actually saw any.

 

[Bruno@MT]

I wonder what this talk about 'discretion' is about.
I've known several women who breastfeed, including friends of ours.

As someone already indicated: never have I seen women yanking off their clothes, swinging out their breasts and shouting 'suck on that'.
Instead, other than some ruffling of clothes, you won't see anything other than a baby whose mouth is physically at the same location as the nipple of the breast you're not seeing. And there are no sucking noises either.

So how much more discreet can you be, other than not being there at all? And considering that you won't actually see anything, what is there to be offended about?

 

[MJS]

The thing with breastfeeding is that you don't even see any breasts.
At least the women I've seen breast feed keep one breast covered, and the other one has a baby in front of it. This must mean that people complained just because they were reminded of the existence and biological purpose of breasts, rather than because they actually saw any.

Interestingly enough, there was a photo in my paper today, stating that August is National Breastfeeding Awareness Month. Anyways...theres a female in the pic, nursing a baby. No blanket, its clear what the child is doing, however, more of her breast is showing, than normal, if she had her shirt on, covering herself. Again, this is fine, but there may be some people who, when their kids see this and ask, "Mommy, Mommy...what is that lady doing over there??" that may take offense, because now they have to explain something to their child.

 

[MJS]

I wonder what this talk about 'discretion' is about.
I've known several women who breastfeed, including friends of ours.

As someone already indicated: never have I seen women yanking off their clothes, swinging out their breasts and shouting 'suck on that'.
Instead, other than some ruffling of clothes, you won't see anything other than a baby whose mouth is physically at the same location as the nipple of the breast you're not seeing. And there are no sucking noises either.

So how much more discreet can you be, other than not being there at all? And considering that you won't actually see anything, what is there to be offended about?

Its very simple....use a blanket, excuse yourself and go to another room, etc. People complain and ask..."What was this woman supposed to do, feed her kid in an unsanitary bathroom or in a hot car?" Heres a question...how is the bathroom any more unsanitary than the park bench? The kid is being held right?

I've seen women breastfeeding, and they're covered appropriately. Again, just because its a natural thing, doesnt mean it cant be done in a discreet fashion. No different than burping or farting.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Its very simple....use a blanket, excuse yourself and go to another room, etc. People complain and ask..."What was this woman supposed to do, feed her kid in an unsanitary bathroom or in a hot car?" Heres a question...how is the bathroom any more unsanitary than the park bench? The kid is being held right?

I'm assuming you've been in a park bathroom before? They stink, there's usually no AC, often cramped, and gods only know what people have left in there. All that's fine for a 2-minute bathroom stop, but feeding a kid in there? I'd much rather feed the kid on the park bench. At least there'd be a breeze.

Anyway, what we've been arguing is that there's really nothing indecent about it. As others have pointed out:

1) There's state laws protecting breastfeeding in public in 44 out of 50 states.
2) Mothers who choose to breastfeed can only do so much to prevent the kid from getting hungry when out of the house.
3) Most bathing suits and low-cut tops show more boobie-flesh than breastfeeding does. Furthermore, many maternity shirts (if that's an accurate phrase) are designed to reduce exposure and provide comfort.

 

[Bruno@MT]

About getting questions from your kids... that happens. And then you have to explain it. It's how parenting works. First time my daughter saw a friend of ours nursing he infant, she said 'what on earth are you doing?' which is a fair enough question. So we explained how it worked, and made the comparison with a mother sheep and her ewe (is that the correct word?) and that was the end of it.