uhh.... perhaps you're right. However I think you're over-reacting. I got worse jokes than that as a wrestler. A better, more light-hearted response would have been "what, are you jealous of the punching bag or something?"
MMA & the Olympics
- Thread starter Scout200
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uhh.... perhaps you're right. However I think you're over-reacting. I got worse jokes than that as a wrestler. A better, more light-hearted response would have been "what, are you jealous of the punching bag or something?"
ATC
Senior Master
I watch Sky Sports via online streaming for football. Yes American Football. Pretty funny hearing British guys commentate on American Football. They actually do quite well.
For those that want to watch other sports via the internet here are some links.
http://atdhe.net
http://channelsurfing.net/
http://vipstand.net
http://firstrow.net
http://justin.tv
http://eplsite.com
Those are just a few but you can find some interesting sports stuff as well as some TV shows as well. Great sites for when at work and don't have access to a TV with cable or satellite.
You speak as a bloke lol! I have huge problems getting women to train with us, their perceptions are that MMA is a men only thing, speaking to some women they didn't know us women can train and fight. Just getting them to come to the traditional classes is hard enough so comments like this will put women right off, perhaps it already has.
I don't feel it's overreacting to be fed up of someone's coarse remarks, you can't gauge other peoples feeling's by your reactions. I don't have to put up with crude remarks just because you do. It seems if I take things as a joke I'm wrong, if I take things seriously I'm wrong also. I can't win.
ATC
Senior Master
Ha ha ha...This post had me in tears. As funny as it is there are some logical points. I still chuckle at some of the comments though.
However if you look at what he is really saying is that he agrees that MMA should not be in the Olympic due to some of the same issues many have stated. To do so would change the sport into something that it is not right now, making it something different from what it is today. How do you score it? What is a valid scoring techniques and such. As MMA is today you win or lose 2 ways. Submit your opponent, or dominate the majority of the rounds. There really is no point system behind it and to do so would greatly change the sport as it is today. Or create some new Olympic sport altogether.
I see what he is really trying to say. Or at least I think I do. Either way the post amused me at the least.
First of all...for the part in bold...Bravo! :asian: :asian:
Personally I don't think you're wrong.
It is no secret that martial artists make denigratory sexual comments about their fellow martial artists that do BJJ/MMA, while really not paying much attention to wrestlers. That is obvious just by looking at the various comments that have gone on here on this board. I don't do BJJ or MMA, but I can appreciate that its your art and hearing the same stupid insults are not only tiring, but its pretty damn disgusting.
If it matters if a guy says it, SteveBJJ has said the same thing in previous conversations. Its your art. Its what you are investing time, energy, money, commitment, and honest training in to doing.
If a person can't respect that...
How is wrestling scored in the Olympics? How is Judo scored in the Olympics? How is boxing scored in the Olympics?
You have three longtime Olympic sports, two of which are grappling arts, one of which is a striking art. Striking is easier to score; but they've obviously figured out something for judo and wrestling. I cannot imagine that it would be complicate to apply that something to MMA and add in a scoring for strikes.
Daniel
Steve
Mostly Harmless
MMA uses a 10 point must system very similar to boxing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-point_must_system
If MMA ever got introduced into the Olympics, bouts would probably be run very much like they are on the Ultimate Fighter. 2 rounds with a third if necessary, 10 point must system, modified rules to account for whatever changes that the Olympic committee makes.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I hope you mean that I haven't demeaned women or made unnecessary, immature jokes.
I agree with Tez and you on this one completely. It's tiresome to deal with guys who make childish, destructive comments. Personally, I get the impression that they come more from that person's own sexual insecurities than any legitimate belief that there's any sexual component to grappling.
Actually, this time you put forth a strong, convincing argument (and you argued it well), and convinced me that my argument was wrong.
You're right about the sexual jokes. You shouldn't have to put up with them if you don't want to.
ATC
Senior Master
Olympic boxing is so different than Pro Boxing. That is why the best boxer does not win in the Olympics. They way they score in the Olympics is not favorable to boxer that train with a pro career in mind. That is why many pro trainers and boxer hate Olympic scoring.
In MMA would 5 jabs that land count for more points than 2 hard body blows or 1 hard wobble head shot. 5 jabs = 5 points, 1 hard head shot that wobbles you = 1 point. 5 secs. left in the round and you tag your opponent hard but the bell rings and you get no more shots in, you are still down. So a few pats from a weak fighters jab just beat you even though you rocked the guy. As it stands now in Boxing or MMA the one punch rock at the end of the round will win you the round. Not in the Olympics as it stands with Boxing.
So this is what is meant by the game would be something different. Now you try to mix the Boxing scoring system with the wrestling scoring system and you really got a fubar system. Oh I took him down but 3 times but only 1 point take downs vs. his single 5 point take down. You got a mess and some totally different sport, not MMA.
Like someone said you may get Sancho or Shoot fighting but not MMA.
I see his points.
ATC
Senior Master
As you see it then becomes something different. As I have stated in another post about another topic, all fighting sports are points based but when you start determining the matches as such with every takedown and every touch as a score well then you have something much different than what you see today. Then the sport becomes a game of tag only.
Example: OK I will do two or three jabs, then stall until broken up. Then do it again. I don't have to really fight just find a way to touch enough times and win.
You don't understand the Olympics. All sports in the Olympics have to have a way of scoring each and every technique. Either the ball or object goes in some type of goal or scoring zone, one athlete runs or moves down a lane faster, lifts more, or the athletes perform a technique that is judged and counted and added up. Pro Boxing and Pro MMA don't have clear cut points that are counted. Once you do that to the sport that is subjectively scored then you no longer have the same game. Submission are easy to determine the winner, just like KO's are also, but it is all that other in between stuff that will change the game.
Like I said in my above post. 20 jabs vs. 2 eight counts and the Jabber wins in Olympic boxing. In Pro boxing it is reversed. That is why Pro boxing look and is better than Olympic boxing.
What I find funny is that so many already have agreed and stated that if MMA is in the Olympics that I would not be the same game but now the same people want to argue it seem for the sake of taking a different position this point. I and TLL are saying the same thing that just about everyone is saying. MMA in the Olympics would be bad and not be the same MMA that you see as it is now. We are agreeing with you, or at least I am.:shrug:
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Good points here. With the way that olympic boxing is scored, MMA would undergo some pretty weird scoring changes, in all likelihood. Where Olympic boxing awards a single point for a punch that lands with power to a target other than the opponent's arms, MMA would likely go to something similar.
While I have said that there is a 10 point must system, you're absolutely right in that the Olympics would probably not use this scoring system for their amateur tournament.
Now, what's interesting about this is that there are a lot of people within MMA who would think this could be an opportunity to improve MMA scoring, believing that the 10 point must system rewards wrestlers, penalizes jiu jitiero and doesn't adequately score the sport. alternative scoring systems have been proposed in the past. The barrier to implementing them hasn't been a lack of interest as much as problems with getting them sanctioned.
I actually said this to TLL at one point, but couldn't get him to stop trolling long enough to read anything in the thread.
At this point, from my perspective, it's less about whether or not the Olympics would be good or bad for MMA than about what changes would occur within the sport if it ever did make it into the Olympics as a competitive sport. While you don't think that MMA would be adversely affected by inclusion into the Olympics, I think it would be neutral at best. I just don't think that it would make the transition well.
I think that it would definitely be a different game. That is neither good nor bad; but it would be a different game.
I only acknowledge that a coherent scoring system would not be tremendously difficult to come up with.
As to the OP's question of 'should' mma be in the olympics, I have already given my opinion, which is that it probably should not, though the changing of the game were not my specific reasons.
I also agree with some of TLL's points after he finally presented them concisely, though certainly not all. Unfortunately, he spent more time airing his opinion of, and making inaccurate assertions regarding, MMA than he did addressing the Olympic question.
Daniel
Just to clarify, this is where I do (and do not) agree with TLL.
Haven't a clue (or a care) about who likes to beat on whom, though I don't really know that your statement is accurate or how much, if at all, it would affect a theoretical bid for Olympic inclusion of MMA.
Also, Olympic MMA would be a different game. We've already established that, and by virtue of being "Olympic," it only needs to be "played" at the Olympics.
Not to mention that as soon as you have "Olympic MMA" you now have a different game that would most likely be legal in all fifty states.
Daniel
This is probably the strongest argument against Olympic inclusion.
This is probably the strongest argument against MMA-ists seeking Olympic inclucsion.
That is due to the fact that MMA is a rule set, not a system, and really isn't pretending to be otherwise.
Incorrect. There is no such thing as an "MMA technique" because MMA is not a system. Techniques used those that are permited as per the rule set.
In what regard?
Not so sure that the Russian comment would hold true. Besides, plenty of nations get their backsides handed to them by other nations regularly in the olympics anyway, so that is really not an argument against Olympic inclusion. I do think that your observation regarding the rules changes and the potential addition of gloves would certainly be a consideration as to the 'should' factor. I also am not aware of an international governing body, though that may fall more into the 'could' rather than the 'should' end of the spectrum.
So what?
The issue of top fighters heading to the olympics has already been addressed, and I think that we all can agree that they wouldn't for all of the reasons that you mentioned.
Haven't a clue (or a care) about who likes to beat on whom, though I don't really know that your statement is accurate or how much, if at all, it would affect a theoretical bid for Olympic inclusion of MMA.
What? And you think we wouldn't? Just substitute corporate money for government expense.
This has also already been addressed and apparently, half the country is not an accurate assessment. But again, so what? Half of our country is not exactly half of the world.
Also, Olympic MMA would be a different game. We've already established that, and by virtue of being "Olympic," it only needs to be "played" at the Olympics.
Not to mention that as soon as you have "Olympic MMA" you now have a different game that would most likely be legal in all fifty states.
Daniel
We tend to have 3x3 minute rounds with Championships fights being 5 minutes rounds. We use the 10 point must system which works very well if the judges understand how to use it properly! Marc Goddard, the guy who taught me to ref and judge is taking seminars here to teach officials how to use the system properly. If used properly it doesn't favour either grapplers or standup people. Marking on all the components of a fight is necessary, it's quite detailed and involves the judge looking closely and consider exactly what each fighter is doing. Marc is a UFC ref. and knows his stuff. It may be worth having a thread just on MMA judging, if anyone interested I'd ask Marc to contribute.
We have three sets of rules here, amateur, semi pro and pro. It wouldn't be difficult to use them in the Olympics but as has been said before MMA would be made more 'Olympic' (therefore more advertising) friendly and other rules would be made up. The grappling part of Judo isn't liked for this reason and we see little or no wrestling on the main Olympic telesvision repeorts. We saw none of the wrestling in the recent Commonwealth Games even though England did well, it wasn't mentioned.
TheArtofDave
Blue Belt
I don't know if MMA would work well in the Olympics. I'm not saying I'm against it by any means, as it does make for an interesting debate.
I just think tma's would be the standard for the Olympics.
I just think tma's would be the standard for the Olympics.
Certainly I think that it could work as well as anything else, though it would probably be with a modified 'Olympic' rule set to make it more television friendly and you could bet that cages would not be a part of it. You'd probably see headgear required as well.
Daniel
True. They could either do away with it and prohibit head shots (ala TKD) or allow it but restrict certain grapples.
Daniel
Daniel
