MMA levels the playing field

[marvin8]

Jon Kavanagh is a professional MMA coach and trainer. His book Win, or Learn is an informative read - if you like reading.

Now back when UFC was just a little baby and still learning to walk, it was spoken about a lot in the martial arts media. Martial artists from all different style were finally going to come together and fight in a no-holds barred contest to see which style was the best

People from various styles came to test themselves and their style (techniques) Mr. Gracie won, and suddenly every article was based around BJJ and ground-fighting - it was also around this time when the myth that 90% of street fights go to the ground

Rory Miller, in a recent book, had the following to say about the reality of ground fighting:

In real life, the winner in a ground fight is not the strongest, the meanest, or the most skillful. The winner will be decided by whose friends get there first.

Anyway, now let us get back to the topic of sports fighting

BJJ became the best thing since, the last best thing (i.e the latest fad) and everybody started working on their ground game

Well, not everybody. Some people still thought their art/style/techniques/method was the best. And they were willing to prove it. Lots of those guys were tackled to the ground and then more people started to seek out the masters of the ground game.

Many years later, Conor McGregor thought he could rely on his striking techniques, but he got taken to the ground and defeated on a number of occasions. Still he was a stubborn young boy and refused to learn. His coach though, wrote a book called Win, or Learn and eventually Conor had to concede - it was time to learn the ground game:

Nowadays, if somebody comes to SBG from a striking background and says they don't like grappling, I have to pull them to one side and tell them that's not going to work. It's okay if grappling isn't your favourite part of mixed martial arts, but you can't simply ignore it. Otherwise the sport of MMA just isn't for you. You can't pick and choose the parts of the game that want to focus on if you have aspirations to go far. I won't allow someone to say: 'I hate grappling'. I make them amend that to: 'Although grappling is not my favourite aspect of MMA right now, I'm excited about learning and improving it.' I believe we become what we continuously say we are, so the words we use are important - John Kavanagh

I am not understanding what that has to do with my reply to you, including "In MMA, martial artists with different backgrounds (e.g., TMA) use a variety of skills in kicking, striking, wrestling and joint locking."

I replied to your two sentences, PM and answered your questions. You still have not answered mine, "Can you list 'the same basic techniques and skills' that you speak of?"

 

[Taiji Rebel]

I am not understanding what that has to do with my reply to you, including "In MMA, martial artists with different backgrounds (e.g., TMA) use a variety of skills in kicking, striking, wrestling and joint locking."

I replied to your two sentences, PM and answered your questions. You still have not answered mine, "Can you list 'the same basic techniques and skills' that you speak

That makes two of us then - the world can be confusing at times

 

[Taiji Rebel]

At :41, "I don't mean to disparage people who practice kung fu. Rather to draw attention to what happens when we have a conceptual martial artist, who doesn't actually train to fight for real, against real live humans with real live resistance and a combat sports athlete who does exactly that. In a contest of reality, the reality based martial artist is going to win."

This extract is a bizarre example of an imaginary event. What was your reason for highlighting it here in the thread?

 

[drop bear]

In real life, the winner in a ground fight is not the strongest, the meanest, or the most skillful. The winner will be decided by whose friends get there first.

Exept that is demonstratively not the case. As plenty of real life fights jave been won by ground fighting.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

I see now, just took the time to watch the video

 

[drop bear]

John Kavanagh is a professional MMA coach and trainer. His book Win, or Learn is an informative read - if you like reading.

Now back when UFC was just a little baby and still learning to walk, it was spoken about a lot in the martial arts media. Martial artists from all different style were finally going to come together and fight in a no-holds barred contest to see which style was the best

People from various styles came to test themselves and their style (techniques) Mr. Gracie won, and suddenly every article was based around BJJ and ground-fighting - it was also around this time when the myth that 90% of street fights go to the ground

Rory Miller, in a recent book, had the following to say about the reality of ground fighting:

In real life, the winner in a ground fight is not the strongest, the meanest, or the most skillful. The winner will be decided by whose friends get there first.

Anyway, now let us get back to the topic of sports fighting

BJJ became the best thing since, the last best thing (i.e the latest fad) and everybody started working on their ground game

Well, not everybody. Some people still thought their art/style/techniques/method was the best. And they were willing to prove it. Lots of those guys were tackled to the ground and then more people started to seek out the masters of the ground game.

Many years later, Conor McGregor thought he could rely on his striking techniques, but he got taken to the ground and defeated on a number of occasions. Still he was a stubborn young boy and refused to learn. His coach though, wrote a book called Win, or Learn and eventually Conor had to concede - it was time to learn the ground game:

Nowadays, if somebody comes to SBG from a striking background and says they don't like grappling, I have to pull them to one side and tell them that's not going to work. It's okay if grappling isn't your favourite part of mixed martial arts, but you can't simply ignore it. Otherwise the sport of MMA just isn't for you. You can't pick and choose the parts of the game that want to focus on if you have aspirations to go far. I won't allow someone to say: 'I hate grappling'. I make them amend that to: 'Although grappling is not my favourite aspect of MMA right now, I'm excited about learning and improving it.' I believe we become what we continuously say we are, so the words we use are important - John Kavanagh

Now you have said 3 different things her. BJJ, ground fighting and grappling.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Exept that is demonstratively not the case. As plenty of real life fights jave been won by ground fighting.

What evidence have you got to back this up?

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Now you have said 3 different things her. BJJ, ground fighting and grappling.

Mr. Bear - I have said way more than 3 different things in my lifetime

 

[Taiji Rebel]

We can tell who are the fighters this forum are now

 

[marvin8]

That makes two of us then - the world can be confusing at times

I believe it's clear. I replied to your two sentences, which can be discussed.

Just saying if your sport is MMA then it will end up with most folk using the same basic techniques and skills.

As for preparation for unarmed combat - does any martial art really prepare you for such an event?

 

[drop bear]

Mr. Bear - I have said way more than 3 different things in my lifetime

So. Here is a kind of staged/flow wrestle that demonstrates MMA grappling concepts.

Which has very little to do with the Gracie style fight from guard.

Which this also isn't. But is close enough for this conversation.

What Connor learned was nothing like what the gracies did in the UFC.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

I believe it's clear. I replied to your two sentences, which can be discussed.

Is it not clear enough already? This exchange between you and I will only go around in circles. You will stick to your guns, I will switch and swerve. We will waste plenty of time online. Time which could be better applied elsewhere. Nothing will be achieved. You may feel better because you proved a point. I have no skin in the game, and should be dancing a different dance. Enjoy your sport. Enjoy your training. And let us keep our fingers crossed that you never have to use your skills in reality. Playing the game in the dojo/gym and ring is much safer for all involved

 

[marvin8]

Is it not clear enough already? This exchange between you and I will only go around in circles. You will stick to your guns, I will switch and swerve. We will waste plenty of time online. Time which could be better applied elsewhere. Nothing will be achieved. You may feel better because you proved a point. I have no skin in the game, and should be dancing a different dance. Enjoy your sport. Enjoy your training. And let us keep our fingers crossed that you never have to use your skills in reality. Playing the game in the dojo/gym and ring is much safer for all involved

However, you said "- the world can be confusing at times."

It's clear that others are discussing and you're not.

 

[drop bear]

Exept that is demonstratively not the case. As plenty of real life fights jave been won by ground fighting.

https://www.facebook.com/100044576767604/posts/pfbid0V8LPULNugWYt5i4tD5r3YQLVMXji9CkEUSy1xKpPzQDX4XMLauWf4TD9Dz72b11xl

 

[Taiji Rebel]

https://www.facebook.com/100044576767604/posts/pfbid0V8LPULNugWYt5i4tD5r3YQLVMXji9CkEUSy1xKpPzQDX4XMLauWf4TD9Dz72b11xl

The video will not play.

Your statement suggests plenty of fights can be won by ground fighting - this is 100% true because somebody will always win, but it might not be you

Your statement though, is not evidence to show 90% of fights go to the ground.

You may decide to take fights to the ground because of your training, but this is your choice. And it also one which I wholeheartedly discourage in any real life encounter. The last place you ever want to be is on the ground!

It is fine when you are play-fighting in a contest, but extremely dangerous outside the safety of the ring or gym.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Can you list "the same basic techniques and skills" that you speak of?

In MMA, martial artists with different backgrounds (e.g., TMA) use a variety of skills in kicking, striking, wrestling and joint locking.


Yes, those martial arts that include "unarmed combat"/fighting in their training.

At :41, "I don't mean to disparage people who practice kung fu. Rather to draw attention to what happens when we have a conceptual martial artist, who doesn't actually train to fight for real, against real live humans with real live resistance and a combat sports athlete who does exactly that. In a contest of reality, the reality based martial artist is going to win."

Have not watched all of the videos. Only the reference to the kung-fu fighters above. I was totally stunned watching those guys being Knocked Out. Those poor naïve martial artists who must have truly 100% believed in the hype of the fighting systems they trained in.

Oh my God!!!

You have got to be 100% deluded to think you can be out-of-shape and untrained against a trained athlete - it does not even matter if that super-fit and muscled athlete knows anything much about fighting either.

Imagine peddling that kind of junk in your martial arts school and sending your students out into everyday life with their magnificent, yet delusional, fighting abilities - you could get people killed teaching them junk like that

I am absolutely stunned to see those martial artists trying to use their Kung-Fu Panda skills against competition fighters of that calibre

 

[Cynik75]

...
You may decide to take fights to the ground because of your training, but this is your choice. And it also one which I wholeheartedly discourage in any real life encounter. The last place you ever want to be is on the ground!
It is fine when you are play-fighting in a contest, but extremely dangerous outside the safety of the ring or gym.

But what if your oppent want to take take you down. And he will succeed?
Or what if you will slip/stumble?

Mine last altercation "on da stretz" was about 2 moths ago when in small grocery shop one of the client (little bit drunk) was rude for clerks and generally was doing some damege to the good in the shelves.
I told him to stop or I will stop his, he said "try me".
Kosotogari, knee on the belly and he lost all of his "warrior attitude".

 

[Taiji Rebel]

But what if your oppent want to take take you down. And he will succeed?
Or what if you will slip/stumble?

Mine last altercation "on da stretz" was about 2 moths ago when in small grocery shop one of the client (little bit drunk) was rude for clerks and generally was doing some damege to the good in the shelves.
I told him to stop or I will stop his, he said "try me".
Kosotogari, knee on the belly and he lost all of his "warrior attitude".

How old are you?

I sometimes wonder how old all of you are here.

Is this a serious questions even?

Did you really have this kind of altercation in a shop?

 

[Cynik75]

How old are you?
I sometimes wonder how old all of you are here.

Is this a serious questions even?

Did you really have this kind of altercation in a shop?

47, and you?
My questions for you are serious.
Yes. And in many other places, because of;
- small issue with anger control
- lot of disrespect for assholes.

 

[marvin8]

Just saying if your sport is MMA then it will end up with most folk using the same basic techniques and skills.

As for preparation for unarmed combat - does any martial art really prepare you for such an event?

Have not watched all of the videos. Only the reference to the kung-fu fighters above. I was totally stunned watching those guys being Knocked Out. Those poor naïve martial artists who must have truly 100% believed in the hype of the fighting systems they trained in.

Oh my God!!!

You have got to be 100% deluded to think you can be out-of-shape and untrained against a trained athlete - it does not even matter if that super-fit and muscled athlete knows anything much about fighting either.

Imagine peddling that kind of junk in your martial arts school and sending your students out into everyday life with their magnificent, yet delusional, fighting abilities - you could get people killed teaching them junk like that

I am absolutely stunned to see those martial artists trying to use their Kung-Fu Panda skills against competition fighters of that calibre

The fight lasted 7 seconds. It's not about being "out-of-shape" nor "super-fit and muscled." It's about my answers to your questions and what I time stamped. Again martial arts that include "unarmed combat" (fighting) in their training, prepares oneself for "unarmed combat" (fighting).

At :41, "I don't mean to disparage people who practice kung fu. Rather to draw attention to what happens when we have a conceptual martial artist, who doesn't actually train to fight for real, against real live humans with real live resistance and a combat sports athlete who does exactly that. In a contest of reality, the reality based martial artist is going to win."