mma is a made up martial art.

[K-man]

I remember reading about Funakoshi's training and he had a class of kicks that included using an object to jump off from to kick an opponent. I think it was called a trinity kick, or something along those lines. Specific might be different, but I remember doing the same stuff as a kid playing around.

There are a couple of jumping kicks in Goju Kata (Sanseru and Suparenpei), that could be used as a 'climbing' kick.

 

[K-man]

but this is not a combination. It is a Frankenstein half round half front kick.

If you say so. Now, if you will excuse me, I have better things to do.

 

[drop bear]

As always, there is nothing new under the sun. From historical records, we know that man has had some sort of combat sport pretty much since he organized himself into cities.

As far as "mixed martial arts". For most people, in the US, it is synonymous with the UFC. Brazil had it's Vale Tudo competitions, but they were not widespread. There were probably others as well all over the place. The first few UFC's were very much a "style vs. style" approach. As it gained in popularity, fighters started to cross train to win fights and fill the holes in their approach. One of the first "big name" UFC fighters to gain popularity with this idea was Marco Ruas. He called it "Ruas Vale Tudo" and gained immediate fan support for the first TKO of a fighter just using his Muay Thai roundhouse kick over and over to Paul Varlenes (sp?). Fighters started to add BJJ to their mix and started to win, next phase was the wrestler with his ground and pound approach. Then you had strikers who had great takedown defense and could keep it standing (Chuck Liddell) and brought back the striker as champions.

There were other competitions as well. The other big giant known to viewers in the US was PrideFC in Japan. You saw a different set of techniques being used there in comparision to the UFC because of a different rule set and a different fighting venue (boxing ring vs. caged octagon). Fighters going from one to the other weren't always successful due to these reasons.

All of this is to say that the UFC has "mainstreamed" the rules used by most competitions now along with the overseeing athletic commissions to make it legal in the US. Yes, there are still other ones out there, but none that have the pull and popularity in the US. So, what we see as "mixed martial arts" is a combination of techniques and tactics that have shown a high percentage of effectiveness in the UFC rule set for the way Americans think about it. For other competitions, you may see a different mix of things based on those rules and what arts are popular where those competitions take place.

I have not seen anything in any of the "MMA" competitions that can't be found in a traditional art somewhere.

there is but it is subtle. The wall tactics are probably new. Or at least more developed than a martial arts has looked at before.
i don't know anyone else who does that.

there is a guard passing strike series that is tactics i haven't encountered either.

but i don't know if i completely agree with the idea that there is nothing new under the sun. I doubt we would consider tkd as Korean karate. Karate as Japanese kung fu.

a martial art is generally more than the sum of its parts.

 

[Buka]

Maybe William Shakespeare's line, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" is true, and applicable today.

Who knew?

 

[drop bear]

This is a very strange thread. So for example, when I go back to Wing Chun and probably in six months or so, if I added a knee practising Chi Sau, would that be in affect be making things up. Sorry I just fail to see that, surely the knee is a add on and has no tangible affect on Wing Chun? Surely if MMA was making things up as it goes along, where is the coherence in that. Someone tries a new move been made up, a kick to the neck for example would likely paralyse. Sorry, I just don't get it.

A Martial Art is based on coherence honed by generations, making something up on the fly is all well and good, but has to based on coherence of whatever art you do. The sandbox is simply not that vast. Is MMA not made up of Boxers, Wrestlers and Grappler's, what new move made up could possibly be safe on the fly. Rambling over, going to go and be confused.com elsewhere.

concepts. A good fighter understands the principles and can apply that. (not all the time mind you)

so i may not know an arm bar from a position but i know which way it bends and so can make up an arm bar to suit.

i train with a guy who is notorious for just making stuff up. Sometimes it even works.

 

[drop bear]

Maybe William Shakespeare's line, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" is true, and applicable today.

Who knew?

yes.

same thing in hip hop form.

i just like the song.

 

[Transk53]

concepts. A good fighter understands the principles and can apply that. (not all the time mind you)

so i may not know an arm bar from a position but i know which way it bends and so can make up an arm bar to suit.

i train with a guy who is notorious for just making stuff up. Sometimes it even works.

Suppose it would be 50/50 on whether something made up works or not. The again at some point, all MA would have been considered made up in its infancy.

 

[drop bear]

Suppose it would be 50/50 on whether something made up works or not. The again at some point, all MA would have been considered made up in its infancy.

not so much 50/50 if the guy making it up knows the structure he is playing around with.

like jazz

 

[RTKDCMB]

And who in the hell is 'Lord Sugar'?
View attachment 19120

?????

And who the hell cares?

 

[Transk53]

not so much 50/50 if the guy making it up knows the structure he is playing around with.

like jazz

Dangerous though. I saw a vid yesterday through Facebook. The Jiu Jitsu society posted a bout where one of the fighters refused to submit. He had his arm broken. In this case, it was on him. But I imagine some nasty injuries resulting from a personal structure though. A certain move perhaps may have a higher percentage of working, I bet though that would diminish if untested outside of the cage.

 

[Transk53]

And who the hell cares?

A very annoying person. Hosts the TV show "The Apprentice" He also started "Amstrad" back in the day.

 

[Transk53]

yes.

same thing in hip hop form.

i just like the song.

Cool choonage man

 

[Tez3]

And who the hell cares?

All the children in the Great Ormand Street Hospital do because he pours money into it. And because he believes actions speak louder than words so how about drop bear posts up videos of his MMA fights as well as those of him training. At the very least he should post up his pro fight record.

 

[Transk53]

Great Ormand Street Hospital

That is good then. Was my second home once.

 

[punisher73]

there is but it is subtle. The wall tactics are probably new. Or at least more developed than a martial arts has looked at before.
i don't know anyone else who does that.

there is a guard passing strike series that is tactics i haven't encountered either.

but i don't know if i completely agree with the idea that there is nothing new under the sun. I doubt we would consider tkd as Korean karate. Karate as Japanese kung fu.

a martial art is generally more than the sum of its parts.

Again, you state that it is things YOU haven't encountered before.

When we were kids, we jumped off things and kicked at each other playing "karate". I'm sure many many others before have done the same thing. If someone taught that kick in a "traditional karate school" everyone would have said how unrealistic it was and how you couldn't use that in MMA or a "real fight".

As to the subtle differences between styles. There are only so many ways that the body can move. A right cross from boxing is the same idea as the reverse punch from karate and kung fu, only minor differences in expression.

Yes, things are added or refined but they are variations on a theme and not something brand new. There are only so many ways to choke/twist/crank/lock/throw/strike a body.

 

[drop bear]

Dangerous though. I saw a vid yesterday through Facebook. The Jiu Jitsu society posted a bout where one of the fighters refused to submit. He had his arm broken. In this case, it was on him. But I imagine some nasty injuries resulting from a personal structure though. A certain move perhaps may have a higher percentage of working, I bet though that would diminish if untested outside of the cage.

don't start getting all sport on me. You will never be cool that way.

 

[drop bear]

Again, you state that it is things YOU haven't encountered before.

When we were kids, we jumped off things and kicked at each other playing "karate". I'm sure many many others before have done the same thing. If someone taught that kick in a "traditional karate school" everyone would have said how unrealistic it was and how you couldn't use that in MMA or a "real fight".

As to the subtle differences between styles. There are only so many ways that the body can move. A right cross from boxing is the same idea as the reverse punch from karate and kung fu, only minor differences in expression.

Yes, things are added or refined but they are variations on a theme and not something brand new. There are only so many ways to choke/twist/crank/lock/throw/strike a body.

so you would be able to find another style that has comprehensive tactics for pinning someone against a cage.

 

[drop bear]

All the children in the Great Ormand Street Hospital do because he pours money into it. And because he believes actions speak louder than words so how about drop bear posts up videos of his MMA fights as well as those of him training. At the very least he should post up his pro fight record.

lol.

i do mma for the street. And like everybody else who does street i don't need videos.

i am sure this has already been discussed. There is a thing called anecdotal proof and being your own external source.

 

[Tez3]

MMA 'for the street' oh my days, now I've heard everything.

 

[Steve]

For my money, MMA plus situational awareness and a good attitude is a pretty solid combination for self defense.


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