MMA fighter kills weightlifter

[Tez3]

Unlikely in boxing, only because they're trained not to follow the person down

My point about boxing was not that they follow the opponent down but that the opponent in a bout is allowed up time and time again when they shouldn't be. MMA doesn't have a standing or lying count, you go down KO'd the fight is finished, no one continues fighting when they are unable to.

I've seen a boxer in a fight in a pub kick a man in the face he'd just dropped.

When ;overkill' happens in MMA which isn't as often as you'd think given the publicity, it's the refs job to stop it so often it's poor refereeing to blame as much as anything. An MMA fighter who allows himself to get carried away is not a good fighter and will, like an angry fighter, soon lose their fights and be out of the game. Promoters don't want that type, because others don't want to match with them, and they will soon be dropped.

 

[Headhunter]

There is s definitely ground and pound on unconscious opponents in MMA.

Agreed I can think of about 5 or 6 examples off my head right away

 

[Tez3]

Agreed I can think of about 5 or 6 examples off my head right away

Not saying it doesn't happen but it's not the purpose of ground and pound, it's down to the ref to be watching close enough to stop the fight the minute a fighter is out. It doesn't happen by design where a fighter goes into the cage with the intention of beating up an unconscious opponent.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So you base your opinion of MMA on a business rather than the sport. MMA is more than the UFC which is basically a circus for making money. Even in the UFC though a fighter isn't often struck while unconscious, and when it does happen there is a tremendous amount of criticism from MMA people, not the fanboys, of the poor refereeing that will have caused this.
I have watched thousands of fights, most live, and the times a fighter has been in danger of being beaten while unconscious have been very few and far between, I can also tell you that the other fighter has never been happy or pleased when it's happened. It's never a deliberate act. I think you fundamentally misunderstand what MMA fighters are actually like and misunderstand what MMA actually is. We've had a lot of discussion about style bashing recently, and your comments are an example of this.

Not sure how I'm style bashing when even in your post you admit that it sometimes happens. If I show a video of it actually happening would that be style bashing too?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Not saying it doesn't happen but it's not the purpose of ground and pound, it's down to the ref to be watching close enough to stop the fight the minute a fighter is out. It doesn't happen by design where a fighter goes into the cage with the intention of beating up an unconscious opponent.

But for many it's their intent and training to keep hitting until the referee stops the attack. Because of this the trigger to stop is the referee identifying a fighter who can't continue, who then interacts with the attacker to get the fighter to stop. So fighters for the most part wait for the referee to end the fight during the pounding.

 

[Tez3]

Not sure how I'm style bashing when even in your post you admit that it sometimes happens. If I show a video of it actually happening would that be style bashing too?

It's style bashing because you accuse MMA people of wanting to actually hit people while they are unconscious. It's not because it's happening it's because you accuse us of doing it deliberately.

But for many it's their intent and training to keep hitting until the referee stops the attack. Because of this the trigger to stop is the referee identifying a fighter who can't continue, who then interacts with the attacker to get the fighter to stop. So fighters for the most part wait for the referee to end the fight during the pounding.

Incorrect. KO's happen in boxing, kick boxing and MT all the time, the difference is everyone can tell when the fighter is unconscious, with MMA it's not actually as easy as that. I didn't say the fighters wait for the referee to stop the fight I said it's up to the referee to be aware enough that when the fighter has lost unconsciousness the fight is stopped. I can you decide what the intent is of fighters you don't know? It's not fighter's intent to batter an unconscious person but often what is happens they don't actually see the other fighter for a number of reasons there fore the onus is on the ref. However you have made your mind up and are on the side of those who consider MMA to be nothing more than dog fighting therefore beneath you and only fit for thugs so there's little point in trying to explain to you.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It's style bashing because you accuse MMA people of wanting to actually hit people while they are unconscious. It's not because it's happening it's because you accuse us of doing it deliberately.





Incorrect. KO's happen in boxing, kick boxing and MT all the time, the difference is everyone can tell when the fighter is unconscious, with MMA it's not actually as easy as that. I didn't say the fighters wait for the referee to stop the fight I said it's up to the referee to be aware enough that when the fighter has lost unconsciousness the fight is stopped. I can you decide what the intent is of fighters you don't know? It's not fighter's intent to batter an unconscious person but often what is happens they don't actually see the other fighter for a number of reasons there fore the onus is on the ref. However you have made your mind up and are on the side of those who consider MMA to be nothing more than dog fighting therefore beneath you and only fit for thugs so there's little point in trying to explain to you.

Go back and read my post original post and you'll see I said none of that. Second are you telling me that MMA fighters aren't intentionally striking?

 

[Tez3]

Not knowing that you (general) have won or even caring that you won so long as you get in some extra licks is really horrible. MMA has a bad reputation for that.

that's not style bashing? Er yeah it is.

Second are you telling me that MMA fighters aren't intentionally striking?

Are you being serious? I think you need to re-read everything.

 

[drop bear]

But for many it's their intent and training to keep hitting until the referee stops the attack. Because of this the trigger to stop is the referee identifying a fighter who can't continue, who then interacts with the attacker to get the fighter to stop. So fighters for the most part wait for the referee to end the fight during the pounding.

Yeah second one in

My coaches last fight he was ground and pounding the guy who wasn't out but wasn't defending and the ref wasn't really doing much. He actually had to tell the ref to end the fight.

 

[Tez3]

He actually had to tell the ref to end the fight.

All credit to him and the ref should be ashamed. It goes to show though that MMA fighters do not go into the cage to batter unconscious people, they do have a care for their opponents.

 

[drop bear]

All credit to him and the ref should be ashamed. It goes to show though that MMA fighters do not go into the cage to batter unconscious people, they do have a care for their opponents.

Everybody has their own motivation. My guess is that if you are engaging in street MMA you probably are not too concerned with safety.

But yeah it happens a bit off a head kick. They go unconscious and get beat up on rhe deck.

 

[Tez3]

Everybody has their own motivation. My guess is that if you are engaging in street MMA you probably are not too concerned with safety.

But yeah it happens a bit off a head kick. They go unconscious and get beat up on rhe deck.

However fighters don't train to beat up unconscious people, they don't think beating up an unconscious person is great or they've managed a great victory because they've hit someone who is already out. It's the opposite of macho, carry on beating up an unconscious opponent and people will think you're just a saddo.

 

[drop bear]

However fighters don't train to beat up unconscious people, they don't think beating up an unconscious person is great or they've managed a great victory because they've hit someone who is already out. It's the opposite of macho, carry on beating up an unconscious opponent and people will think you're just a saddo.

Some do some don't. I don't think following up with punches after a ko head kick is considered too extreme in a MMA setting.

So trained to do it? Yeah sorta.

 

[JP3]

Who is the more evolved specimen in this case?

According to Charles' thoughts, the MMA guy.

According to me/you/us... that is very debatable.

 

[punisher73]

Some do some don't. I don't think following up with punches after a ko head kick is considered too extreme in a MMA setting.

So trained to do it? Yeah sorta.

It's a fine line. Professional fighters (profession as in their ethics not necessarily their pay) don't train to purposely go out and injure their opponent. But, many times a guy can recover very quickly from a flash stun where it looks like he's out and that is why they follow up with punches. It is VERY important to have highly trained referees to keep both fighters safe and not stop it too soon if it is just a quick stun and not allow it to continue when the other fighter can't intelligently defend himself.

As with ANY contact sport, not just combat sports, you get "bullies" who do just want to hurt someone. It only takes a couple to give it a bad name. Especially when you have a large organization like the UFC promote idiots to fight for them that don't have a professional attitude.

 

[punisher73]

http://nypost.com/2017/08/22/mma-fi...legedly-killing-weightlifter-in-street-fight/

Thanks for the link. Working in law enforcement for 20 years, it used to be all the wanna be's would claim that they were kickboxers or some type of MA expert (not including all the "special forces" guys), now they all come in and claim that they are "mma" guys. So, it's a bias I have when I hear that term thrown around until I actually talk to someone about their training or see some kind of "proof".

 

[drop bear]

It's a fine line. Professional fighters (profession as in their ethics not necessarily their pay) don't train to purposely go out and injure their opponent. But, many times a guy can recover very quickly from a flash stun where it looks like he's out and that is why they follow up with punches. It is VERY important to have highly trained referees to keep both fighters safe and not stop it too soon if it is just a quick stun and not allow it to continue when the other fighter can't intelligently defend himself.

As with ANY contact sport, not just combat sports, you get "bullies" who do just want to hurt someone. It only takes a couple to give it a bad name. Especially when you have a large organization like the UFC promote idiots to fight for them that don't have a professional attitude.

Correct.

Young Sean here copping a KO and then just springing back up.

The ref we use is fantasic by the way.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yeah second one in

My coaches last fight he was ground and pounding the guy who wasn't out but wasn't defending and the ref wasn't really doing much. He actually had to tell the ref to end the fight.

I've seen similar cases. I think I've seen 2 total where the fighter was more aware than the referee that his opponent was out. I can't remember who was fighting but one was a submission and the other was a strike from the mount, which took 2 punches and the guy was out. It was one of those moments where the fighter looks at the referee as if ask "what are you waiting for? Are you going to call the fight?" while the referee is just waiting for an onslaught of punches.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Correct.

Young Sean here copping a KO and then just springing back up.

The ref we use is fantasic by the way.

wow. I'm not sure if it's my phone but it sounded as if bone broke. Was he ok after the knock down?

 

[drop bear]

wow. I'm not sure if it's my phone but it sounded as if bone broke. Was he ok after the knock down?

A bit upset he lost. Otherwise yeah.