Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

OK. I just read the entire thread. Wow, just wow.
Arrogance leads to getting your *** kicked, physically, verbally, or, like we've seen here, textually.
IMHO, your biggest problem, Zenjael, is the arrogance in your posts. Arrogance, especially that which can't be backed up, gets on my nerves like nothing else.
At my school, there are two guys who compete in tournaments, the rest of us, we just beat the sh** out of each other. Sparring isn't about learning to throw a punch and a kick, sparring is about learning to TAKE a punch or a kick. If you can't suck it up after a hard shot, you're a goner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MJS
Can you do us a favor please? Please learn to use the quote feature. It'll make it so much easier for us to reply to your posts. Reading this is rather difficult, as it seems you're copy/pasting, and its hard to figure out who exactly you're replying to. I gave you instructions on how to do this. If you still can figure it out, let me know, and I'll be happy to go over it with you again. :)

Now, before I comment on a few things you said below, I'd like to say a few other things.

1) You say that you're open to comments, both good and bad, yet it seems that you're not happy with what you hear.

2) Perhaps you should understand that there're people on here, such as myself, among many others, that've been training longer than you've been alive. That said, perhaps you should humble yourself a bit, accept the fact that you don't know it all, and be a bit more open to what others have to say.


You put too much assumption behind words like this. I have been flipped many a time from lingering my leg out in a way that would allow it to be manipulated as such. If a short front-kick wouldnt release me, trust me, the twist into a side-kick will. I have been flipped, swept and thrown doing this, and I worked on the kicks until the problem became one which is advantageous. I did not drop my leg either, notice the refold and step. If you would like to think, that in Alec's situation you would executed the sweep and knocked me down, that is fine. I do not think you would, and I think you would regret trying to grab my leg.



Should you get to flip me. If you were to try, it is simple to refold your leg. My leg can be raised up to my shoulder before I am forced to lose my balance, and I assure you I would have rotated to the side to avoid being swept. The majority of leg grabs occur at the ankle, and require both hands to secure the leg. As you noticed in the video, tug as he might, he could not drop that leg. If you were to grab my quick, I assure you it would most likely be because I wanted you to, and the second you have your arm preoccupied supporting me leg, supporting it, I will fold in, and start pummeling.

There are some people who will not let themself be swept, and it isnt a hard type of technique to avoid. The trick is in keeping a fine tune on your center of gravity and balance. Chances are just as like that if you grabbed my leg I would just roundhouse with the other to the head. Wouldn't have a reason not to- your head is exposed at that point.

Maybe, if you charged me while holding my leg. But you'll find then I'd just hop back, while still kicking, over and over. But if you charged, it's a simple matter of just stick one's palm out. The nice thing about being small is that it can gift the body with great speed. Additionally, in Tae Kwon Do there are numerous quicks which use the individual as a launch point. You flipping me, for all you know, could result to a knee strike or kick as I move up. Hence why if I grabbed someone, I would use the time to strike their leg or groin. Why the heck sweep when you can just put them out.

Ohh...so, in other words, what you're saying is, is that you're sooo good, that you can't be flipped, swept, knocked down, etc. Just an FYI...there are numerous ways in the FMAs, to capture the leg, which does not involve the ankle. I've had people attempt to push/pull their leg, hop, toss out strikes....doesn't work. Even if you manage to pull off a palm strike, the odds of it having much power, is slim. Yes, a good grappler is willing to take a half assed shot, in order to get what they're looking for.


In the end this just turns into an "Im better than you" mindset. If you want to keep beating your chest over the matter, fine, but I grow weary of it. What if's don't help save as speculation. You told me how I am vulnerable when he grabs my leg, and then admitted you did not understand why he did not do what you would. I gave you the answer- he couldn't, that should probably convey to you that when somebody who specializes in grappling, through judo, aikido, hapkido, krav maga, and jiujitsu couldn't do it, chances are it isn't worth the effort. Let alone the amount of time put in discussing it.

No, what it turns into, is people, once again, who've trained much longer than you, attempting to seperate fact from fiction, and you making yourself out to be Superman. Trust me, you're not.





Then review the video and look closer. If you cannot see where a technique would have struck, but was obviously restrained so as to not do so... I question your ability to see any strike coming at you, let alone your ability to react to it. There are very clear examples, throughout it. Hell, every technique which gets in



And I agree. There were no points to score here. There are different types of sparring, and this is what we call continuous.

LOL! No strikes reached their target, because all the strikes were slaps. I prefer continuous sparring, and do it on a regular basis, with contact.



Yeah, no. Padding only does so much. Us sparring like this is about refinding our degree of control. You notice that his control is superb- he lands two hook kicks, clearly, and neither resulted in injury. Gear will not stop you from getting hurt, and in the long run, especially in sports with blows to the head, can lead to brain damaging.

Why risk it? Wear pads until you are conditioned enough to take blows, learn how to effectively block, channel blows, and evade. Martial arts I believe is a sport which carries the highest likelihood of injury, with on average two occuring to a martial artist in a year, I've read. Perhaps those pads dont do as much good as people espouse.

Don't get me wrong, padding has its great uses... but when you see somebody's groin get torn because of the cup, when they would have been fine without, you begin to question the actual safety it offers. When a glove permanently keeps you maintaining a tight grip (thickly curved foam gloves) you risk boxer's fracture immensely.

The stock you put into pads was the response to Americas love of suing. If you look at how most people trained in the arts in history... you don't see sparring gear till the art picked up in the states, and people realized there was money to be made.

In kendo, gear is needed, and certain other martial arts. But if you're a black belt and still wear a chest protector, a shin or forearm guard, than I do not think the person with the physical durability deserving of that denotation of rank. Frankly all you need by the time you hit your first dan is a mouth guard. If you are making full contact sparring to result in injury, while not wearing sparring padding, you need to work onyour degree of control and philosophy of how you train with others.

I strive to never hurt those I train with, no matter how much people may want to simulate realism.

To be honest, I think that you're afraid to get hit, you're afraid of getting hurt, and I don't think that you've ever trained in a school that had contact, or much of it. Back in the early days, people didn't wear gear, mainly due to no fear of lawsuits or people afraid of contact. As I said, we spar all the time in Kyokushin. We wear minimal gear. Lots of hard contact, and little to no injury. The gear allows you that protection, but no, of course you're still risking some injury. Again, better to learn in the dojo, than on the street, when you get whacked, and wonder what the hell happened, because you've never been hit hard before. Dude, I've been training for 26, going on 27yrs. My worst injuries: a knee injury while grappling, due to some careless **** with no control, and a few bloody nose incidents. Thats it. Been tagged in the balls many times, both wearing a cup, and without. I'm still here...lol.

Dude, keep in mind...just because I talk about hard sparring, doesnt mean that is all I do. Alot depends on what my focus is on that day. Furthermore, just because people spar hard, which I do alot, we're not trying to kill each other..lol. Like I said dude, we're all friends at the end of the day.
 
OK. I just read the entire thread. Wow, just wow.
Arrogance leads to getting your *** kicked, physically, verbally, or, like we've seen here, textually.
IMHO, your biggest problem, Zenjael, is the arrogance in your posts. Arrogance, especially that which can't be backed up, gets on my nerves like nothing else.
At my school, there are two guys who compete in tournaments, the rest of us, we just beat the sh** out of each other. Sparring isn't about learning to throw a punch and a kick, sparring is about learning to TAKE a punch or a kick. If you can't suck it up after a hard shot, you're a goner.

QFT!!!! My God! There is SO much truth in this post, its not even funny!!
 
two babies slap fighting.

oh, and i want that nine minutes of my life back please......




Despite the title, while there is MMA utilized in the video, there are also different kinds of mixed martial arts, rather than the normative sole TKD/Muai-Thai/Judo combination.

The person in the black is my good training partner, and friend, Alec Emery. I've had the honor of attending several martial art schools with him, and he is a very good fighter. He holds a 3rd Dan in Chung Do Kwan TKD, and I am equally ranked in WTF Tae Kwon Do, Moo Duk Kwan.

To give a size reference I'm about 5'4", 5'5", and am wearing the black shirt, and gray sweater in beginning.

I hope you guys enjoy the video, find valuable insights for possible improvement and critique, and can find things to use yourself from this video.

The Martial Art Styles, altogether used in this video (elements from each style we have respectively learned) are; Chung Do Kwan, Jidokwan, Moo Duk Kwan, World Trade Federation Tae Kwon Do, International Tae Kwon Do Federation, Shotokan, Isshin-Ryu, Okinawan Karate, Muai-Thai, Aikido, Hapkido, Jiujitsu, Krav Maga, Acujutsu, Shishi Baguazhang, Yin-Style Baguazhang, Wing-Chun, and American Kenpo.

I am hoping the diversity will allow the video to appeal to many, especially as an example of the benefits of cross-style training.

Again, I hope you all enjoy, and sorry for the Dup-step. I'm clearly pandering to a wider audience there.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: MJS
Many martial arts recognize centerline theory without realizing it, or having a name for the principle. As I said before, he used an element of the judo technique. However, I still give credit where it is due, and try to respect styles. You asked me to find a movement, I have. He's over, and I confirmed with him if that was what he was trying to do, and he said yes.

No - Many Martial Arts cant help but notice that theres a whole bunch of vulnerable things in the middle of Your body. Wing Chun wasnt the first and it wont be the last. And even if it wasnt, the middle of the body is easier to hit than the sides with straight punches, much like the head. The biggest difference is that Wing Chun surrounds it with Theory.

two babies slap fighting.

oh, and i want that nine minutes of my life back please......

You actually watched it all?
 
So when you are doing Shaolin Kenpo, are you also doing Hapkido and san soo and tai chi and wrestling? Or just elements from the other arts? Or is it just a technique that appears in many arts ? I need to expand my martial arts resume, but I wouldn't want to seem over the top with my claims.

Really, all you need is Sinanju.

Of those listed I have only done Shaolin kempo, dux-ryu, wrestling, kung fu San Soo, and some tag chi.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
 
it has irked me for 20 years that two kenpo arts, 180 degrees out from each other sound just alike....the ussd is what it is, but i love castro's shaolin keNpo
 
What does the thigh have to do with kouchi-gari? You are seriously grasping at straws to claim that stepping in qualifies as even an attempt at a throw. By your definition, any step or movement that someone makes is an element of a martial arts technique, therefore they are doing that martial art. Newsflash, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, sometimes a step is just a step.

You are right, in a video where there are no throws, you have asked me to identify a specific technique. Since this video is not about throwing, or any art in particular, or any technique, with people hailing from different, and multiple stylistic backgrounds, it is difficult to answer your demands.

The credence of styles in the end of credits is out of respect to the arts. Both Alec and myself have taken what elements we have found worked for ourselves from the respective styles we have taught, and we have done so from each. To not acknowledge our background, in at least having experience with them, would in a sense be disrespectful not only to those who taught us, but the art himself.

You asked me to identify a technique, I told you I could not, but showed you aspects of techniques. It is the most I can do, however, when I make a video about throwing, grappling, and the like, I will be happy to demonstrate any technique you ask. Perhaps that is a better request to make.

two babies slap fighting. .

When two people have fought for a time, and have fought each other on that level of heavy contact, one does not always need to. Both of us feel comfortable hitting others with control, neither of us felt interested in potentially increasing the level of contact to a point either of us could get hurt. Where we came from, when contact was made, we checked gloves for the sake of recognizing that control was integral in retaining a respectful connection with another. People who hit too hard were humiliated in front of the school, while those who fought well praised in the same manner. We were taught that you should be able to put a person down with one punch, and if you couldn't, should feel that you had not trained hard enough, with too few push-ups.

I don't feel heavy contact is necessary in training at a point. When one knows they can take a blow, anyone, they should not feel the need to prove it. This video was not about breaking a stick over someone's stomach, or a stone with a chop.

Ohh...so, in other words, what you're saying is, is that you're sooo good, that you can't be flipped, swept, knocked down, etc. Just an FYI...there are numerous ways in the FMAs, to capture the leg, which does not involve the ankle. I've had people attempt to push/pull their leg, hop, toss out strikes....doesn't work. Even if you manage to pull off a palm strike, the odds of it having much power, is slim. Yes, a good grappler is willing to take a half assed shot, in order to get what they're looking for.

Quite the opposite, I am quite frankly stating that one only needs to be hit so often in the face to learn not to get hit. I am also saying that once one has learned how not to get hit, when they do offer the opportunity, it might serve another purpose, and be a deliberate trap.

I do not think any skilled fighter will take any shot to a vital, at any time, unless the other is more skilled, or that they have fallen for the bait, or defenses broken.

I have found against people of equal experience sparring, fighting takes on a different feeling. In a way it is like being able to read each other's thoughts, expressed through movement, and reaction. I have had conversations like this, in particular with a taijiquan practioner and teacher in the area. It is very enjoyable, and I hope others have experienced the poetry of this.

There is fighting for survival, and enjoying the art, and each other's. If someone pulled a knife, chances are I'm not going to turn a spin using Bagua; not because I am uncomfortable with a certain skill, but because there are times for art, and times to get the point across efficiently. In that case, today, I find myself returning to Krav Maga most, for tactical, and pragmatic self-defense.
 
You'll notice also that Judo, and Aikido were mentioned as used, but the only time this occurred was in about two places where we used stances from the style to avoid tripping each other.

This is your statement. I asked you where judo was used and what stance in judo is used to avoid sweeps, again from your own words. I did not ask you to point out a throw, because I could probably recognize one of those. This is were you attempted to explain that stepping to centerline qualifies as kouchi-gari. Again, no judo in this video, fairly obvious.
 
When two people have fought for a time, and have fought each other on that level of heavy contact, one does not always need to. Both of us feel comfortable hitting others with control, neither of us felt interested in potentially increasing the level of contact to a point either of us could get hurt. Where we came from, when contact was made, we checked gloves for the sake of recognizing that control was integral in retaining a respectful connection with another. People who hit too hard were humiliated in front of the school, while those who fought well praised in the same manner. We were taught that you should be able to put a person down with one punch, and if you couldn't, should feel that you had not trained hard enough, with too few push-ups.

I don't feel heavy contact is necessary in training at a point. When one knows they can take a blow, anyone, they should not feel the need to prove it. This video was not about breaking a stick over someone's stomach, or a stone with a chop.

Seems with your negative outlook at contact, I, as well as others, are wondering whether or not you've actually been hit by anyone with any skill. Furthermore, as I've said numerous times, it seems that you're assuming contact means injury. Not the case at all. Contact is a necessary part of the martial arts.

As far as the one shot thing goes....so going on what you're saying here, you're saying that a pro mma fighter, who doesnt KO his opponent with 1 shot, isn't any good? And pushups have nothing to do with making the 1 shot any more effective.



Quite the opposite, I am quite frankly stating that one only needs to be hit so often in the face to learn not to get hit. I am also saying that once one has learned how not to get hit, when they do offer the opportunity, it might serve another purpose, and be a deliberate trap.
Careful...you're ego is getting the better of you here. One minute you're claiming you dont say stuff like that, and then we have posts like this! So, what are you saying here? That you're so good that you dont get hit?

I do not think any skilled fighter will take any shot to a vital, at any time, unless the other is more skilled, or that they have fallen for the bait, or defenses broken.

Gee, thats funny, because I've seen many mma guys, take a shot, as they're going in for the clinch/takedown. Its happened to Royce Gracie many times.

I have found against people of equal experience sparring, fighting takes on a different feeling. In a way it is like being able to read each other's thoughts, expressed through movement, and reaction. I have had conversations like this, in particular with a taijiquan practioner and teacher in the area. It is very enjoyable, and I hope others have experienced the poetry of this.

Have you ever fought anyone with more skill than you?

There is fighting for survival, and enjoying the art, and each other's.

You're preaching to the choir here.


If someone pulled a knife, chances are I'm not going to turn a spin using Bagua; not because I am uncomfortable with a certain skill, but because there are times for art, and times to get the point across efficiently. In that case, today, I find myself returning to Krav Maga most, for tactical, and pragmatic self-defense.

Have you given any thought to spending some quality time, ie: many years, actually learning an art, rather than jumping from one thing to the next?
 
You asked me to identify a technique, I told you I could not, but showed you aspects of techniques. It is the most I can do, however, when I make a video about throwing, grappling, and the like, I will be happy to demonstrate any technique you ask. Perhaps that is a better request to make.

In that case, may I request a combination technique? Maybe an entrance to Uchi mata, a failed throw(an actual effort at the throw) transitioning to ko uchi gari? Maybe with a breakdown of how the thigh is used in kouchi gari?
 
Seems with your negative outlook at contact, I, as well as others, are wondering whether or not you've actually been hit by anyone with any skill. Furthermore, as I've said numerous times, it seems that you're assuming contact means injury. Not the case at all. Contact is a necessary part of the martial arts.

As far as the one shot thing goes....so going on what you're saying here, you're saying that a pro mma fighter, who doesnt KO his opponent with 1 shot, isn't any good? And pushups have nothing to do with making the 1 shot any more effective.

Perhaps it is ego which makes me say I stop my hand rather than strike, but perhaps there is also reason for it. I can take a shot I assure, but there are also shots I cannot take, and physics is the master of that. I am a small person, and prefer to avoid strikes rather than receive them. But I also understand that a time will come when a strike will land, because there are times where circumstances occur beyond one's control occur.

At times I think, when joining the military, if ever involved in a war, for all my training, if ordered to charge a trench, there's so much one can do to survive, and one is fortune. And I'm not someone who necessarily believe in luck.


Careful...you're ego is getting the better of you here. One minute you're claiming you dont say stuff like that, and then we have posts like this! So, what are you saying here? That you're so good that you don't get hit?

I wish I never got hit. There are many times I have. But there are also times I have, when sparring offered openings to be taken, so I could re-act pre-emptively to strike, There have also been times I have given techniques to be blocked, so I could gauge the other, if they are someone I feel the need to gauge their ability. You would be surprised at how often, when training with college students, this occurs. Hormones make people feel the need to prove themself, even when it is not necessary.

Gee, thats funny, because I've seen many mma guys, take a shot, as they're going in for the clinch/takedown. Its happened to Royce Gracie many times.

If an experienced MMA fighter has taken a shot to the larynx, or fully received a knee to the sternum, I do not believe it was deliberate. When I create an opening, I opt to achieve the illusion for an opening of a vital. When in a neutral stance for bagua, moving my warding arm 6 inches to the left creates the appearance of an opening, while at the same time giving me the distance I need to produce proper torque to redirect even a kick, let alone a strike to the arm. I am not saying it is always successful, just offering a strategy I find works.

Have you ever fought anyone with more skill than you?

Of course. I am fortune that I live in NOVA, for there are MANY skilled practioners here, which I would expect where so many styles are located within a relatively small area.

Sparring with those better than you feels a bit like being in a cage with a tiger, before you finally feel the tiger swing. It is exhilerating, but it is also an experience to relish. When you give everything you have, and are not only met, but find your better, you cannot help but not bow out of ritual, but true respect. This is another to learn from, who can offer you improvement. To not ask, even a passing thought for how one can improve oneself, would be to disrespect them in the fact they are better.

I am nervous before I trade with anyone I perceive to be better than me, but it never keeps me from actually doing so. I do not mind getting clocked in the face, if they truly surpassed a guard I felt could not be blocked. I bow even deeper if I get a blow in, for when you do improve with someone better than you, it is because of them you are better. And all the more reason to bow.

Have you given any thought to spending some quality time, ie: many years, actually learning an art, rather than jumping from one thing to the next?

Yes, until I realized that so long as I did not blur in my mind where one style ended, and another began, it would not inhibit the techniques themselves. I respect when I do a high block, that there is a certain movement to one's arm, that will render the high block respective toward being of say Ishiin-Ryu, Shotokan, or TKD. And even in TKD, there are 9 different ways to perform the block supposedly, when there's really only 3 different positionings. Repsecting the uniqueness of each style is imperative to improving in that style, otherwise you are forging something different, using inspirations of it, so I have found.

When I practice Moo Duk Kwan, I attempt to remain cognizant when and where I do, and where the situations occur practically occur. When I practice Ba gua, I am cognizant that when practicing Aikido, that though the movements are similar, even if I utilize aspects, they are different, and respective. I treat a style as a form of thought, just as I treat philosophy. How a Christian views the world is not the same as a Buddhists, and neither are necessarily right or wrong. But if I want to learn to think like them, I actually have to learn how they think, rather than what I think they do. And this is a difficult thing to do, but what I hope to succeed in not only in helping others bridge their differences, but martial arts as well.


This is your statement. I asked you where judo was used and what stance in judo is used to avoid sweeps, again from your own words. I did not ask you to point out a throw, because I could probably recognize one of those. This is were you attempted to explain that stepping to centerline qualifies as kouchi-gari. Again, no judo in this video, fairly obvious.

If Judo has taught me to be aware of the subtleties of how one shifts their weight, I will attempt to give credit where do. The credits give less credit to techniques employed (since this is a doctored video in the sense it does not convey ALL that we know and can do, merely what is presented) and moreso to our background. I did not want to post a video where people would watch and gestulate at what they saw. I gave a guide to the range of what can be seen. You asked for specifics, and I attempted to answer, no more. I did not tell you how to execute the technique, only that having learned it, allowed insight to counter a person attempting certain movements.

If the only thing you learned from boxing was how to punch with speed, you'd better give credit to where you learned the speed employed, even when using it in a different style such as tae kwon do, or bagua.

It's not about saying BAM! here's a sidekick, but about honoring who taught you, and more importantly, what was taught. I could give a list of my teachers, or Alec's, or I can give the style we learned, and how our own uniqueness of individuals has interpreted it.

Which would YOU prefer, the perfectly executed block in a kata or form, or the block which actually saves your life. The latter is usually found to be sloppy, even if it's effective. You'd be amazed at how often in krav maga there is a lack of technique which is easily overcome by level of agression, and intent in one's action.

You are right that at times a step is a step, and a throw a throw. But sometimes a step is made because of having learned a throw. sometimes opening present which cannot be exploited by a full technique, and might be from a variation of it.

Mastery I have been told is knowing when to use one's technique, and when to change it for the circumstance.

I will ask again, what does the thigh have to do with kouchi-gari?

Would you like my response, or would you like to just give your refutation? I do not mind either way, but I am sure any practioner can see that thigh use is not something common to grappling styles. From how I learned kouchi-gari, the proper sweep is executed not only with just the sweep, but if possible to reinforce it, with the knee, and even thigh to better control the center of gravity. Who we learned from was a great advocate of aikido, and impressed great importance in taking care of your attacker, in keeping them from harm.

Had I fallen, and like everytime Alec has swept, thrown, or grabbed me, it has been in a manner where I could fall correctly, or where he kept me from completely falling.

Hence why the video does not show throws; there were two times where he could have put me on the ground, but also kept me from falling, with such control it looks like a stumble. Why would I post what I do not think others will see, and construe as just being bad technique, when in fact he withheld the technique, knowing he could have?

Had he thrown me, our sparring would have escalated to grappling, which you'll notice there is not footage of.

You ask how the thigh is relevant? It is absolutely when executing kouchi gari, because while harder to do, because it requires exposing oneself more, when done properly it also allows one to protect the person it is being executed on upon better. The point emphasized is control; not just for winning, but for keeping oneself and the other from harm, if you so chose.

Just like how one should kick to the groin, but if one wants to not hurt their training partner, they raise their knee first, before kicking (unless executing a specifically stylized swinging kick).

In that case, may I request a combination technique? Maybe an entrance to Uchi mata, a failed throw(an actual effort at the throw)

In a video like this, with respect to the art of throwing, when it comes to applying one's training, is in how one can redirect the opponents strikes to manipulate an opening which will allow one to deflect the strike. What you ask is how would someone in judo would fight TKD, or Ba gua. The answer will very from technique to technique.

I have combed through this video so many times this weekend to supply requests for people asking for examples, I hope you will excuse that for one day I take a break. That being said, later in the week I will be happy to submit footage, if I can find any from the stock available, for what you ask. Otherwise I would recommend youtube if you would like to learn them.

Unless you are asking me to prove myself, in which case I would say you should tone down your own skepticism. If you're going to be critical don't do a half-shod job of exploring the issue. But at that point I'm saying you should come join us in practice if you really would like an answer. In the end, when viewing another, it is not correct to make a value judgement of ability, or insight, until you have worked with them. I recall witnessing in Aikido a master who with the turn and lowering of a wrist totally control the opponent. Should you look at the movement, it would be almost sloppy, in the sense of chin na grabs, yet it is incredibly effective.

I have answered with what I can. If you ever utilize your experience in throwing or pulling, pushing or turning to striking in combat (instead of its traditional grabs or throws), you will see how there are aspects of every style which can improve other styles, and remain respectful toward it, and not obfuscate the lines which differentiate those styles.

For me, it has been important to do so, especially when making the transition from having practiced hapkido, to practicing judo. Or from practicing Moo Duk Kwan, to Chung Do Kwan. To ignore their differences, ignores the opportunity to choose how to react. And even how to create.
 
Last edited:
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? A question with no definite answer. Where is there judo in Alex's video? Apparently the same kind of question, as we get to bounce around some pretty simple questions, with answers that provide more feints and distractions than the video itself. Alex, YOU make a statement that you utilized a judo stance to avoid a sweep. When questioned about it, and where to see it in the video, YOU say to check out around the 5 min mark with Alec is attempting what YOU call a kouchigari, (NOT a judo stance, but an actual technique, except no such technique is being attempted). When asked for clarification, You say Alec stepped to centerline, so that is ko uchi gari, (no hands for upper body control, no kuzushi, no hooking of the foot, no directing of the throw), somehow the mere act of stepping can only be a judo technique. When I question you on this, You say there are no throws, so you cant show them, but only an element(ie someone took a step) of the technique, then go off on some tangent that you only know of throws involving the thigh in several other arts. Fascinating as the thigh has nothing to do with kouchigari, which oddly enough, has nothing to do with the purported "judo stance" you use to avoid sweeps.

Alex, if YOU cant point out the "judo stance" that you state was utilised in this video, can only make the extremely weak connection between stepping to centerline(and nothing else) as an example of ko uchi, and someone such as myself, who has been doing Judo and Judo based arts since before you were born(NOT THAT THAT MAKES ME AN EXPERT)cannot see any judo in the video, how is anyone supposed to believe there is any judo in this video?
 
Perhaps it is ego which makes me say I stop my hand rather than strike, but perhaps there is also reason for it. I can take a shot I assure, but there are also shots I cannot take, and physics is the master of that. I am a small person, and prefer to avoid strikes rather than receive them. But I also understand that a time will come when a strike will land, because there are times where circumstances occur beyond one's control occur.

At times I think, when joining the military, if ever involved in a war, for all my training, if ordered to charge a trench, there's so much one can do to survive, and one is fortune. And I'm not someone who necessarily believe in luck.

Just so we're both on the same page here, I think you're talking about shots to areas such as the throat, eyes, etc. I'm not talking about that. I mentioned that I personally have, as well as seen others, hit in the groin. Those shots, fortunately, did not drop me, however, at a recent belt test, I did see someone dropped by one. But no, all kidding aside, accidents do happen. Those shots were not intentional. I'm talking about hard contact shots to the body.




I wish I never got hit.

LOL,, yeah, don't we all!


There are many times I have. But there are also times I have, when sparring offered openings to be taken, so I could re-act pre-emptively to strike, There have also been times I have given techniques to be blocked, so I could gauge the other, if they are someone I feel the need to gauge their ability. You would be surprised at how often, when training with college students, this occurs. Hormones make people feel the need to prove themself, even when it is not necessary.

Ok.



If an experienced MMA fighter has taken a shot to the larynx, or fully received a knee to the sternum, I do not believe it was deliberate. When I create an opening, I opt to achieve the illusion for an opening of a vital. When in a neutral stance for bagua, moving my warding arm 6 inches to the left creates the appearance of an opening, while at the same time giving me the distance I need to produce proper torque to redirect even a kick, let alone a strike to the arm. I am not saying it is always successful, just offering a strategy I find works.

Again, I think we're not on the same page here. Oh and speaking of throat shots....during one sparring match a few months ago, I did take one of those. Completely accidental, as it hit my chest first, then slid up. Hurt like a *****, but I kept going. No Alex, I'm simply saying that despite what you think, I've seen first hand, people take a shot, in order to give one or to get a clinch, takedown, etc.



Of course. I am fortune that I live in NOVA, for there are MANY skilled practioners here, which I would expect where so many styles are located within a relatively small area.

Sparring with those better than you feels a bit like being in a cage with a tiger, before you finally feel the tiger swing. It is exhilerating, but it is also an experience to relish. When you give everything you have, and are not only met, but find your better, you cannot help but not bow out of ritual, but true respect. This is another to learn from, who can offer you improvement. To not ask, even a passing thought for how one can improve oneself, would be to disrespect them in the fact they are better.

I am nervous before I trade with anyone I perceive to be better than me, but it never keeps me from actually doing so. I do not mind getting clocked in the face, if they truly surpassed a guard I felt could not be blocked. I bow even deeper if I get a blow in, for when you do improve with someone better than you, it is because of them you are better. And all the more reason to bow.

Hmm...ok. OTOH, I'm thinking that perhaps my version of better and your version are 2 different things. I ask this, because it seems, judging from your past posts, that a) you're afraid to get hit, b) that you're too good to get hit, c) that you don't like contact. And yes, I'd be happy to point out those posts.



Yes, until I realized that so long as I did not blur in my mind where one style ended, and another began, it would not inhibit the techniques themselves. I respect when I do a high block, that there is a certain movement to one's arm, that will render the high block respective toward being of say Ishiin-Ryu, Shotokan, or TKD. And even in TKD, there are 9 different ways to perform the block supposedly, when there's really only 3 different positionings. Repsecting the uniqueness of each style is imperative to improving in that style, otherwise you are forging something different, using inspirations of it, so I have found.

When I practice Moo Duk Kwan, I attempt to remain cognizant when and where I do, and where the situations occur practically occur. When I practice Ba gua, I am cognizant that when practicing Aikido, that though the movements are similar, even if I utilize aspects, they are different, and respective. I treat a style as a form of thought, just as I treat philosophy. How a Christian views the world is not the same as a Buddhists, and neither are necessarily right or wrong. But if I want to learn to think like them, I actually have to learn how they think, rather than what I think they do. And this is a difficult thing to do, but what I hope to succeed in not only in helping others bridge their differences, but martial arts as well.

Umm...ok....but I think you're missing the point. I another post, which I'd be happy to point out to you, you made it seem like spending any more than a year was pointless. It seems that you've done alot of jumping around from one art to the next. Judging by the laundry list of things you've claimed you've trained in, thats why I asked that question. Could you clarify?
 
Alex, YOU make a statement that you utilized a judo stance to avoid a sweep.

Ah, excuse me, Alec uses an aspect of Kouchi Gari, not me. I used a reverse front-stance from Tang Soo Do to counter it so he wouldn't break my knee.

If you review the sequence you will note that as Alec lands his 'step' it is in a hooking motion as he uses his thigh to attempt my center of gravity. Like it or not, it is an aspect of the technique, though not it completely.

somehow the mere act of stepping can only be a judo technique.

As a Bagua practioner, I'd say stepping is only related to circle walking, ever. I'm sorry, sarcasm isn't expressed well online. Of course stepping isn't relative to one style, or even any, but if there' s a reason for stepping a particular way, then there is. Do you not want me to defend the answer you asked me to give?

Alex, if YOU cant point out the "judo stance" that you state was utilised in this video, can only make the extremely weak connection between stepping to centerline(and nothing else) as an example of ko uchi, and someone such as myself, who has been doing Judo and Judo based arts since before you were born(NOT THAT THAT MAKES ME AN EXPERT)cannot see any judo in the video, how is anyone supposed to believe there is any judo in this video?

It doesn't matter if people believe there is Judo in the video to me or not- it is more important for me to respect the people who have taught me. What you do not see, is that in my eyes, to not credit the style is to be disrespectful to my teachers, who might one day look me up, and see that I did not give them, or their style the honor it is due.

Im sorry there aren't defined Judo techniques in the video? It does not mean it does not show how Judo techniques can be utilized in different styles, which as a martial artist you might think I would advocate...

And I'm happy you've practiced longer than I've been alive. I hope you continue to. This doesn't mean you are worse or better than me, or that, that even matters. But it also doesn't mean I'm going to do what the ultimate goal of your posts is to do, and remove judo as a style listed being utilized in this video. It is, because I know from firsthand experience why Alec postured himself in that fashion, even if you disagree with it. Of course, I am putting words in your mouth in saying you would like Judo removed, but I would think a practioner of Judo would prefer the style acknowledged, rather than ignored, when a person employs a tactic of it cross-style. For a technique to be adapted outside of its respective style, with another, is to give it respect that the technique itself is superb, and further honor the style itself.

To me, this entire discussion has been less about understanding Judo, and moreso for you to tell me to stop bowing to it. That's what I've gleaned from it, in addition that you feel Judo is 'ONLY' used in stances 100% as they are defined in picturesque form. For me, that presents a problem in using that technique, in a fashion relative to each situation. You can't ONLY block one way, you'll someday find a technique which the block was designed to protect against, and doesn't. There is a counter to everything; sometimes it occurs in a style you have never seen- probably in a style you have never seen, I would venture.

Hmm...ok. OTOH, I'm thinking that perhaps my version of better and your version are 2 different things. I ask this, because it seems, judging from your past posts, that a) you're afraid to get hit, b) that you're too good to get hit, c) that you don't like contact. And yes, I'd be happy to point out those posts.

Fear is not the only reason to avoid a blow. Protecting oneself is also. One of the primary tenets of Bagua is to not be there. To do otherwise is to betray a style which I happen to agree with. You can't get stabbed if you don't put yourself, or leave yourself there to be stabbed. When sparring, I treat every point at the end of the limb as if it's a blade. I've doneso since a friend in high school showed me a boot they had bought with a switch-blade that came out, as in the movies. Since then, combined with tactical knife training, I've come to find it just more condusive toward respective attacks in terms of evasion to treat every part of the body which can make contact as if it were a blade, while respective of course what it actually is (if you're going to pretend an elbow strike has the lethality of say a gun, don't forget what the strike, and elbow actually does)

You NEVER know what the crazy person attacking you will pull on you. Yes, movies are movies, but I thought the same until two people on PCP tried to mug me, and I learned the hard way that in the movies when they say they are unstoppable, it has a grain of truth. When a punch to the throat, hard enough to knock them over is not enough to stop a person, im dipping. And while I might say a lack of force is the problem, flicking the larynx with your finger lightly can cause it to seize and choke another.

Umm...ok....but I think you're missing the point. I another post, which I'd be happy to point out to you, you made it seem like spending any more than a year was pointless. It seems that you've done alot of jumping around from one art to the next. Judging by the laundry list of things you've claimed you've trained in, thats why I asked that question. Could you clarify?

I would advise never giving up any martial ever learned. I practice every style I have been taught. When I find err in my technique, and cannot find a way to self-rectify it, I communicate with my teacher on how to. When others point out what I am doing wrong, I first ask them how to do it, and then my teacher. I have yet to find a teacher who has disagreed with what the other recommended, though pointing out at the same time its own shortcomings, and how it conflicts stylistically with how 'we' would do things.

Old joke; how many martial artists would it take to change a light bulb?

Answer? 10. 1 to screw it in, another 9 to say 'We do it like this in our style...'

You learn a technique. You never stop learning the style and art.
 
Last edited:
Would you like my response, or would you like to just give your refutation? I do not mind either way, but I am sure any practioner can see that thigh use is not something common to grappling styles. From how I learned kouchi-gari, the proper sweep is executed not only with just the sweep, but if possible to reinforce it, with the knee, and even thigh to better control the center of gravity. Who we learned from was a great advocate of aikido, and impressed great importance in taking care of your attacker, in keeping them from harm.

Kouchi is a small inside clip. You hook the back of your opponent's foot with the bottom of your foot, and sweep outwards. Unless you are doing it from a bearhug type grab, I cannot envision how you can have your thigh involved. You are not seeking to control the center of gravity, but to disrupt the Uke's base

Had I fallen, and like everytime Alec has swept, thrown, or grabbed me, it has been in a manner where I could fall correctly, or where he kept me from completely falling.

Oddly enough, in judo, there are techniques we practice to fall correctly. They are called breakfalls. They seem to work for the millions of people who do judo



You ask how the thigh is relevant? It is absolutely when executing kouchi gari, because while harder to do, because it requires exposing oneself more, when done properly it also allows one to protect the person it is being executed on upon better. The point emphasized is control; not just for winning, but for keeping oneself and the other from harm, if you so chose.

You learned this from someone who does Aikido, correct? What style of Aikido? Yes, it makes a difference. I have trained with a direct student of Gozo Shioda, as well as several high ranking Yosinkan budo.



Just like how one should kick to the groin, but if one wants to not hurt their training partner, they raise their knee first, before kicking (unless executing a specifically stylized swinging kick). I wasn't aware that you chamber a kick so as to not hurt your partner, perhaps training with a 23 time world champion kickboxer and his trainers has left me with a poor understanding of body mechanics

In that case, may I request a combination technique? Maybe an entrance to Uchi mata, a failed throw(an actual effort at the throw)

In a video like this, with respect to the art of throwing, when it comes to applying one's training, is in how one can redirect the opponents strikes to manipulate an opening which will allow one to deflect the strike. What you ask is how would someone in judo would fight TKD, or Ba gua. The answer will very from technique to technique.

Actually, what I have asked for is what a judoka would do when fighting another judoka, it is a fairly standard combination within judo. You offered to do a video of you throwing, this is my request. It has nothing to do with how someone would fight Bagua with TKD, nor does it vary from technique to technique. It is a request for a throw combination, as you generously offered to video yourself doing such, is that not correct?

I have combed through this video so many times this weekend to supply requests for people asking for examples, I hope you will excuse that for one day I take a break. That being said, later in the week I will be happy to submit footage, if I can find any from the stock available, for what you ask. Otherwise I would recommend youtube if you would like to learn them.
Oddly enough, as a judoka, I know how to do most of the throws in my chosen system
If you're going to be critical don't do a half-shod job of exploring the issue. But at that point I'm saying you should come join us in practice if you really would like an answer.
You asked for people's opinions, and what they thought of the techniques shown in your video. You would do better to stay with one system and work with it. Stop deluding yourself that you have developed a side kick that would be fatal if applied. Based on what I have seen, why would I drive 10 hours to pracice with you?

I have answered with what I can. If you ever utilize your experience in throwing or pulling, pushing or turning to striking in combat (instead of its traditional grabs or throws), you will see how there are aspects of every style which can improve other styles, and remain respectful toward it, and not obfuscate the lines which differentiate those styles.

For me, it has been important to do so, especially when making the transition from having practiced hapkido, to practicing judo. Or from practicing Moo Duk Kwan, to Chung Do Kwan. To ignore their differences, ignores the opportunity to choose how to react. And even how to create.

Making a transition from one art to another is a common enough occurence. Many people train multiple arts throughout their training. Not all arts combine effectively with others. Don't attempt to delude others(or yourself) with this "an element" of a technique crap.
 

Latest Discussions

Back
Top