MIT student at Logan
- Thread starter Mark L
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The silly putty was paint, "putty" just sounds more threatening.
OP
OP
Mark L
Brown Belt
She was arrested because the authorities at Logan thought she had a bomb strapped to her body. When first questioned about what she was up to, she simply walked away. The second confrontation resulted in her arrest at gunpoint.
The fact that there are some fairly obvious ways to better get a device into the airport is irrelevant. The fact that you think she didn't intend it to look like a bomb, maybe she didn't intend it either (though I doubt it), or that you don't think it looked like a bomb is also irrelevant. Security personnel at an international airport thought it could be a bomb, and acted appropriately, IMO.
How do you know what a bomb looks like? What does a trigger circuit for plastic explosives look like? Are you sure it couldn't fit on that 3" x 8" proto board? How about if you were at the airport with your family, would you just blow it off? Or some seniors who have no knowledge of the nature of her stunt? One old lady panicking, resulting in a fall or heart attack, for the sake of a stunt? This episode could easily have ended badly, and not just for Ms. Simpson.
I think your analogy to LED equipped shoes is absurd. Equating the footwear of a 7 year old to an adult displaying what could be a trigger and a handful of explosives in a friggin' airport? Please.
She's been charged with possessing a hoax device, I hope it costs her. I'd prefer that she be charged with being an idiot, but that's not illegal here in MA (you can verify that by simply looking at our Senatorial and Congressional delegations).
redfang
Purple Belt
I'm surprised the same people who are crying about the police infringing upon free speech rights in the taser incident at the Kerry event aren't saying the same here. It was her art after all. By arresting her, they have infringed upon her freedom of expression.:barf
Before anyone hollers at me for not understanding the seriousness of security issues, note the sarcasm in my voice. . . hear it?)
Before anyone hollers at me for not understanding the seriousness of security issues, note the sarcasm in my voice. . . hear it?)To me it just seems odd to arrest a person and state that they could have very easily been killed for a harmless homemade leectronic device.
I have no objection to them questioning her, finding out what it is, but after that is should have been a simple "Sorry for bothering you, please carry on. However in the future this shirt might not be a good choice for a high security area"
"Hoax device" is getting tossed around quite easily, the light brights in Boston where classified as the same. Yet clearly the intention was not as a fake bomb, but as advertising.
Truth is that any homemade electronic device, and a good number of purchased ones, especially if you take some casing off could easily get that label, if the authorities wanted to apply it. This is a very bad precident IMO, for something to fall under "Hoax device" it should, in my mind, be intended as such.
Bbut when electronics becomes a back room, never take it out in public sort of activity, everybody better not start wondering why all there electronic devices say "made in _____", the blank being anywhere but the Western world, and when they break they need to go over seas to be repaired.
From everything I've seen she did nothing to indicate it was a bomb or she was looking to blow herself up. People with guns simply did not know what it was, and reacted with aggression out of fear.
This constant fear needs to go, I'd rather trust my community and take the risk that one day, one of them might try and kill me rather then living in fear of every unknown thing that flashes or suspicious looking person I see. 9/11 was 6 years ago, and in that time far more people have died of countless other causes. How many other Terrorist attacks have actually occured on American soil? Terrorist attack is really rather low on the list of things that might kill you, at least in North America anyways. Fear of fast food french fries and Soft drinks would do us much more good then this.
I have no objection to them questioning her, finding out what it is, but after that is should have been a simple "Sorry for bothering you, please carry on. However in the future this shirt might not be a good choice for a high security area"
"Hoax device" is getting tossed around quite easily, the light brights in Boston where classified as the same. Yet clearly the intention was not as a fake bomb, but as advertising.
Truth is that any homemade electronic device, and a good number of purchased ones, especially if you take some casing off could easily get that label, if the authorities wanted to apply it. This is a very bad precident IMO, for something to fall under "Hoax device" it should, in my mind, be intended as such.
Bbut when electronics becomes a back room, never take it out in public sort of activity, everybody better not start wondering why all there electronic devices say "made in _____", the blank being anywhere but the Western world, and when they break they need to go over seas to be repaired.
From everything I've seen she did nothing to indicate it was a bomb or she was looking to blow herself up. People with guns simply did not know what it was, and reacted with aggression out of fear.
This constant fear needs to go, I'd rather trust my community and take the risk that one day, one of them might try and kill me rather then living in fear of every unknown thing that flashes or suspicious looking person I see. 9/11 was 6 years ago, and in that time far more people have died of countless other causes. How many other Terrorist attacks have actually occured on American soil? Terrorist attack is really rather low on the list of things that might kill you, at least in North America anyways. Fear of fast food french fries and Soft drinks would do us much more good then this.
Sober and salient insights, Andrew.
Of course, she could've been running an elaborate double-bluff in creating a device that looks nothing like a bomb and was simply testing the security waters for a later, more insidious incursion (need a smiley for 'not being serious' here).
I don't think such even entered her head but I wasn't there and I do think simply walking off when questioned about the device was a bit dim.
The 'third hand' in this game of 'terrorist paranoic whispers' is that the media age makes it all too easy for people to get amped up about incidents - especially if they are not accurately reported in the first place. "Silly student arrested for wearing a flashing shirt" is not as good 'copy' as the scare-mongering alternative.
Chaps and chappesses, one thing we learned during a few decades of bombings in the UK is that if there's a random chance that you're going to get blown up by a hidden device then there's no point being scared about it; you'd never leave the house otherwise.
Terrorist attacks tend to be shrouded until the sudden, bloody, denouement and if you're in harms way then that's that. Don't die every day through fear.
Of course, she could've been running an elaborate double-bluff in creating a device that looks nothing like a bomb and was simply testing the security waters for a later, more insidious incursion (need a smiley for 'not being serious' here).
I don't think such even entered her head but I wasn't there and I do think simply walking off when questioned about the device was a bit dim.
The 'third hand' in this game of 'terrorist paranoic whispers' is that the media age makes it all too easy for people to get amped up about incidents - especially if they are not accurately reported in the first place. "Silly student arrested for wearing a flashing shirt" is not as good 'copy' as the scare-mongering alternative.
Chaps and chappesses, one thing we learned during a few decades of bombings in the UK is that if there's a random chance that you're going to get blown up by a hidden device then there's no point being scared about it; you'd never leave the house otherwise.
Terrorist attacks tend to be shrouded until the sudden, bloody, denouement and if you're in harms way then that's that. Don't die every day through fear.
In all honesty, this is no different than waving a fake gun at someone while you're driving. The cops pull you over, take you out at gun point, determine that its a fake and let you go. Not likely to happen at all. Most likely you will have some charges brought against you. No different here with this girl. Fake or not, facat of the matter is, is that if she was allowed to continue on her way, still with this things on her, you don't think for one minute it'll still cause chaos?
In light of 9/11, IMO, I think people like the one in question, should smarten up just a bit, dont ya think? I mean, its amazing how many people still try to bring on banned items, talk about bombs, etc. A little common sense goes a long way, unfortunately, some don't exercise it much IMO.
Mike
OP
OP
Mark L
Brown Belt
Your first point isn't accurate. The light bright were not obviously or clearly an advertising ploy. I was there, there was quite a bit of uncertainty as to what was going on (I'm looking out my window right now at the bridge across the Charles River (which I traverse to and from work every day), where some of those devices were planted). I couldn't easily get home that day because of that "hoax".
The people with guns did their jobs, they are paid to worry about security, to be maybe a little bit paranoid and over-protective, to treat a questionable scenario as a threat until proven otherwise. To what aggression are you referring? The police confronted Ms. Simpson and she immediately acquiesced, no aggression.
As to living in fear, I do not. Perhaps that is due to the fact that a terrorist attack has not occurred in six years, owing in large part to the vigilance of security forces, including those that patrol Logan Airport.
Likewise, I don't walk around thinking the sky is falling either. Since 9/11, I've traveled by plane, train and boat. We need to get on with our lives. If we don't me may as well live in a bubble and never leave the house. Car crashes happen all the time, yet I still get in my car.
For myself, I haven't done anything different. I'm still aware of whats going on around me, but I'm not looking up at the sky every 5 min either. However, you can bet that if I saw something that didn't seem right, I'm probably going to go with the gut feeling and have someone check into it.
For myself, I haven't done anything different. I'm still aware of whats going on around me, but I'm not looking up at the sky every 5 min either. However, you can bet that if I saw something that didn't seem right, I'm probably going to go with the gut feeling and have someone check into it.
Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
An electronic device strapped to a persons chest in an airport and the security forces are just supposed to walk up and ask "hey is that a bomb"??
And I love the whole "living in fear" line as a covert shot at political security decisions that people dont agree with. Whos "living in fear"? I dont walk through some areas of the City am I "living in fear"? I dont get drunk in bars and flash large sums of cash around, am I "living in fear"?
It's being over used.
And I love the whole "living in fear" line as a covert shot at political security decisions that people dont agree with. Whos "living in fear"? I dont walk through some areas of the City am I "living in fear"? I dont get drunk in bars and flash large sums of cash around, am I "living in fear"?
It's being over used.
I don't live in fear ... but there's common sense and a certain level of decorum to be valued.
A LiteBrite board ... a tennis shoe ... which one looks more like it could be connected to an explosive device? We know about the tennis shoe incident and, I'm sorry, but if my job were to secure from potential bomb threats I would *not* hesitate to admonish a person wearing a litebrite board.
A LiteBrite board ... a tennis shoe ... which one looks more like it could be connected to an explosive device? We know about the tennis shoe incident and, I'm sorry, but if my job were to secure from potential bomb threats I would *not* hesitate to admonish a person wearing a litebrite board.
rutherford
Master Black Belt
Here's a picture.
I'm with Andrew, and I think the OP mis characterized the incident with his whole "performance piece" bit. If some hypothetical person decided it would be fun to pretend to be a bomber at an airport, that would be some bad-wrong fun, and maybe being charged with a crime would be a good lesson learned for them. However, I don't think that's at all what happened here.
I'm with Andrew, and I think the OP mis characterized the incident with his whole "performance piece" bit. If some hypothetical person decided it would be fun to pretend to be a bomber at an airport, that would be some bad-wrong fun, and maybe being charged with a crime would be a good lesson learned for them. However, I don't think that's at all what happened here.
We've been unbelievably fortunate and lucky that there have not been more terrorist events in the US, and that many have not been recognized as such. Issue-based terrorism is actually prety common; think about the actions of groups like EarthFirst, ALF, anti-abortion bombings, and more.
But that's really beside the point. It only takes ONE success. And if someone wears something that might be a bomb, might be a threat, or might be dangerous -- they can expect to be treated as if it IS a bomb. Because the alternative kind of sucks just a wee bit.
The idiot girl in this incident was confronted by the cops; she obeyed, and lived to learn from the stupid act. She was charged in part as an object lesson that being stupid like that in an airport isn't acceptable. My guess? She'll end up with either a plea to a lesser offense, or the case continued for dismissal, pending good behavior. Because she is "just" a college kid... Though I have many problems with the extent of behavior that gets justified with that BS excuse.
Too many people don't get that it only takes ONE success for a terrorist victory...
Given that picture, I'd definitely have been concerned.
Both alternatives suck. Once something is clearly established as "not a bomb" it should end. Unless she was threatening to blow herself up with a fake bomb, or telling people it was a bomb, there should be no issue.
If unsure check it, once its established as harmless, nothing more needs done.
I think it is a very bad precedent to be able to arrest and charge a person for possession of a harmless and fully legal item based solely on someone else thinking it "might" be something dangerous.
I really don't want to argue much more, I just want to say here's a picture of a real bomb which was really intercepted in a real bomb scare. With that, hypervigilance is more than understandable - even expected perhaps.
Big Don
Sr. Grandmaster
She is an MIT student! She doesn't attend Podunk School for the Partially Retarded! When there are people in the world who literally strap on vests filled with explosives and blow themselves to pieces, you DO NOT go to the airport with amateur electronics attached to your clothing! Especially when people flying out of that airport hijacked planes and flew them into buildings! Are we really supposed to believe that she is that ignorant? At the VERY LEAST, she should pay a LARGE fine, spend a few days in jail and be placed on the Federal No Fly List permanently. When you make stupid choices, you deserve the consequences.
Yah. Let me introduce you to a little incident that happened in So. Cal some 15-20 years ago:
An up-and-coming actor held a Halloween costume party (adults, now) inside his home. The neighbors complained to the police about the lateness of the middle-of-the-week party, even though the party was contained to the inside of the house and all doors and windows were shut. They responded and, upon initially ascertaining that the party appeared to be within ordinance and reason, they decided to check the entire property starting with the exterior.
One officer went down the side of the property and looked through a window where he saw a man in a cowboy costume pull a gun out of his hip holster and point it at another person in costume who obligingly put his/her hands up. The officer drew his pistol and fired through the window twice, striking the cowboy (our up-and-coming actor) and killing him.
The gun was a toy gun. It was a costume party. They were playing.
This incident along with many robberies performed with toy guns inspired the law in California (I have no idea if it's still in effect) that any and all toy guns must not be black, dark in color or silver or grey and must be OBVIOUSLY fake; further that any toy guns or their bearers that appeared real would be treated as real and confiscated.
Now ... while I can see the value in the law, especially with the countless robberies and threats made with fake guns, this venue, in particular, *should* have been obvious. It was a party, there were costumes, all adults, there was no disturbance ... it was a reflex reaction by the officer and, like referees, cops make bad calls too.
But in the incident of our MIT student, this was no costume party, this was no rave, no club, no bonfire. This was an airport. THE Airport.
If our actor wore his costume to the store and pulled the toy gun on the cashier and said, "Stick 'em up! *giggle* *giggle* JUST KIDDING!!" He shoud have his *** arrested and prosecuted ... for being an idiot? YES.
Hence, I feel this ... student ... needs a new lesson.
OP
OP
Mark L
Brown Belt
From Mass. State Police Major Pare:
"She said that it was a piece of art and she wanted to stand out on career day," Pare said at a news conference. "She claims that it was just art, and that she was proud of the art and she wanted to display it."
If you don't like my characterization as a performance piece, what would you call it given Ms. Simpson own words?
I'm still confused as to why she said she was wearing that in the first place?
If it was "performance art", then she was playing the part of something/ someone. It appears she was "performing" as a bomber.
If it wasn't "performance art", why did she have the thing attached to her in the first place? I mean, it's not like she was showing off her brilliance in being able to make lights flash from a 9V battery? Come on, I did that in high school! She's an MIT electronics student! That would be like Bill Gates showing off his ability to write a BASIC "Pong" game.
I do some woodwork - should I take a half-finished piece of wood, pin to a baseball cap and parade it around as "art?" I think she just wanted to cause a stir, get some attention, then write it of as "art".
If it was "performance art", then she was playing the part of something/ someone. It appears she was "performing" as a bomber.
If it wasn't "performance art", why did she have the thing attached to her in the first place? I mean, it's not like she was showing off her brilliance in being able to make lights flash from a 9V battery? Come on, I did that in high school! She's an MIT electronics student! That would be like Bill Gates showing off his ability to write a BASIC "Pong" game.
I do some woodwork - should I take a half-finished piece of wood, pin to a baseball cap and parade it around as "art?" I think she just wanted to cause a stir, get some attention, then write it of as "art".
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