Mindless rambling about where FMA's are going

[Tgace]

Originally posted by arnisador
The biggest influences of Bando and Kenpo on the WMAA's curriculum have been semantic and organizational. It's the idea of naming techniques and principles more than the techniques themselves, which overwhelmingly are the Professor's techniques or natural innovations thereof. These are pedagogical, not technical, issues.

Not really clear on the logic of that decision...if (maybe its not) the goal is to give Modern Arnis a clear identity as its own style and not just a hodge podge of techniques, why muddy the waters with terminology from other styles??

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Tgace

Originally posted by arnisador
The biggest influences of Bando and Kenpo on the WMAA's curriculum have been semantic and organizational. It's the idea of naming techniques and principles more than the techniques themselves, which overwhelmingly are the Professor's techniques or natural innovations thereof. These are pedagogical, not technical, issues.

Not really clear on the logic of that decision...if (maybe its not) the goal is to give Modern Arnis a clear identity as its own style and not just a hodge podge of techniques, why muddy the waters with terminology from other styles??

(Emphasis added.) The goal is to have a well-structured curriculum so as to be able to present and teach the art well. It's the idea of how things are named/structured/organized that is principally being taken from these other systems. They are models. I think the only exception that is made is in the presets, which use Modern Arnis techniques but don't have names provided by the Prof. because he did not organize the techniques in this way. Of course, because of the presence of Shotokan kata and SCJJ in Modern Arnis, using Modern Arnis techniques leaves a wide range of possibilities for foriming a technique.

The Professor's seminar-style system of teaching and ever-evolving art needs some organization to make it appropriate for a school's curriculum and an organization's curriculum. A well-defined, specific curriculum is needed. This is what Dr. Gyi, at the Professor's urging to help the Professor's students, has been stressing to us.

 

[loki09789]

Okay,

Arnisador stressed the idea that RP's system of teaching was primarily seminar and that in needs some organization...

but... then who is teaching MA? If RP didn't really systemize his art to make it school friendly, who out there can say that their particular curriculum is 'the truest'? I think this is the root of the problem. RP left a very loose structure that made it open to criticism/interpretation by other artists, and even from those within the art. Not every black belt met the same criteria (This is NOT an attack on the quality, just an observation that without a set curriculum, each of you demonstrated your skill based on different checklists) so this could lead to some confusion about what is 'the best' way to demonstrate skill at each level.

How can there be rank without structure?

Who has the right to claim the name Modern Arnis on their school, when what they are doing is imposing their own structure on someone elses creation? There are many of you out there who have enough time in MA to do this with educated, legitimate ability, but if RP didn't put a systemizing 'stamp' on it, does that mean that, like JKD, MA is more a concept/philosophy and if you know the key ideas, you could be teaching shotokan techniques and still be teaching MA, or maybe an entire art without a stick and still call it MA? If MA is so much more about the idea of the technique and not the actual technique that may also be why it is appealing to practicing artists and not so much for the beginner.

I know it is touchy to say, but I think RP did a disservice to himself by not at least establishing/publishing a framework of somekind that his inheritors could build off of. If this does exist, I take it back, but from what I have read on this and other lists, he didn't.


Paul Martin

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Tgace
True,but lets be realistic, many FMArtists are no "better prepared" to engage in "real combat" than any other art. Just because you train with sticks, knives, disarms etc dosent mean you are mentally prepared to use them on another person. IMHO arts that do a lot of sparring have the edge in regards to knowing what taking and giving real blows actually feels like. I remember working out with a Thi Boxing Chief Warrant Officer when I was in the service and trying to use block/check/counters against even 1/2 speed jabs and crosses(and kicks,knees,elbows..ouch).....lets just say that all FMA students could gain some insight by incoroprating some freestyle fighting.

There are some FMA's that do incorporate sparring, and most of the time, the are using a stick while doing so. Look at the Dog Brothers. Those guys are more intense than many other MA's that I know. I've talked to some guys that train in Kenpo, and they've even said that they wouldn't have the guts to do what they are doing.

Many of those guys are fighting with minimal gear, and they are using real sticks, not padded ones. I've seen clips of guys getting their knees busted, as well as their heads, hands, and fingers.

They also incorporate close in skills, such as knees, elbows and grappling.

IMO, that is alot more than I've seen many of the traditional arts doing!

Mike

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by loki09789
. . .

but... then who is teaching MA?
Paul Martin

I and others are Teaching Modern Arnis.

Originally posted by loki09789
. . .
If RP didn't really systemize his art to make it school friendly, who out there can say that their particular curriculum is 'the truest'?

I think this is the root of the problem. RP left a very loose structure that made it open to criticism/interpretation by other artists, and even from those within the art. Not every black belt met the same criteria (This is NOT an attack on the quality, just an observation that without a set curriculum, each of you demonstrated your skill based on different checklists) so this could lead to some confusion about what is 'the best' way to demonstrate skill at each level.
Paul Martin

Yes, the Curriculum we use in our club is the truest. It was approved by GM Remy Presas back in 1977/78 time frame.

Yet, other clubs were approved also, so I do not claim to be alone or any such nonsense.

Remy took our requirements numerous times to other places around the country and then the other local people would either recommend their own or re-write it. Now this happened to other people as well, so not a unique event.

More in a few.

Originally posted by loki09789
. . .
How can there be rank without structure?
Paul Martin

Rank can exist simply because Remy Gave it. A very subjective point of view, and without any real sense of structure.

Originally posted by loki09789
. . .
Who has the right to claim the name Modern Arnis on their school, when what they are doing is imposing their own structure on someone elses creation? There are many of you out there who have enough time in MA to do this with educated, legitimate ability, but if RP didn't put a systemizing 'stamp' on it, does that mean that, like JKD, MA is more a concept/philosophy and if you know the key ideas, you could be teaching shotokan techniques and still be teaching MA, or maybe an entire art without a stick and still call it MA? If MA is so much more about the idea of the technique and not the actual technique that may also be why it is appealing to practicing artists and not so much for the beginner.

I know it is touchy to say, but I think RP did a disservice to himself by not at least establishing/publishing a framework of somekind that his inheritors could build off of. If this does exist, I take it back, but from what I have read on this and other lists, he didn't.


Paul Martin

Those schools that Remy approved of their Curriculum, can and have put their structure on to the art.

Now, a little history, and Uncle Rock can correct me if I am wrong.

RP had an organization(s) in the PI and he ended up loosing control of them to the government and to other people when he was not around all the time. I think this lead to his regional at best structure. He would not allow any one person to gain that much control. (* Except near the end, and that is a totally different discussion *) He was afraid he would loose his sytem yet again to someone else.


And Paul, it is not a diss-service to RP to discuss this if you wouldhave or did discuss these issues with him when he was alive. It only becomes a disservice, if you had the chance to do this and did not for some reason, and now years after, you start to bad mouth or insult, which I think you have not here. A simple discussion is not a disservice.

:asian:

 

[Tgace]

Originally posted by MJS
There are some FMA's that do incorporate sparring, and most of the time, the are using a stick while doing so. Look at the Dog Brothers. Those guys are more intense than many other MA's that I know. I've talked to some guys that train in Kenpo, and they've even said that they wouldn't have the guts to do what they are doing.

Many of those guys are fighting with minimal gear, and they are using real sticks, not padded ones. I've seen clips of guys getting their knees busted, as well as their heads, hands, and fingers.

They also incorporate close in skills, such as knees, elbows and grappling.

IMO, that is alot more than I've seen many of the traditional arts doing!

Mike

All very true, but the Dog Brothers are IMHO an exception (in more ways than one ) rather than the rule. And Im not saying that those sorts of extremes are ideal either. Knocking yourself out of training with constant injury isnt good. But in my experience, many MA groups seem content to stay in the comfort zone of drill,drill,drill and feed and response training.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by loki09789
If RP didn't really systemize his art to make it school friendly, who out there can say that their particular curriculum is 'the truest'?

Indeed. The people in the Philippines have a version; there are versions from different eras here in the U.S.; the German version is slightly different too, as I udnerstand it. People trained at different times stress different aspects. We've discussed this before--is the core of Modern Arnis tapi-tapi, the flow, connecting the systems, art within your (he)art, etc.?

The WMAA uses the curriculum implemented by Mr. Hartman, who made up the black belt tests used at the Michigan and some other camps and of course approved by the Professor. That could be one sense in which the WMAA could claim to be accurate. But, frankly, different people have different impressions of what Modern Arnis is and to my mind, that's OK. I have no interest in trying to claim the WMAA's version is the truest--I think there are others that could make as good a case for their curricula anyway. I wouldn't get involved in such an argument, I think.

But, certainly I wish we had been left a better-defined curriculum and a more cohesive and better-explained organization.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by loki09789
1. Arnisador stressed the idea that RP's system of teaching was primarily seminar and that in needs some organization...
but... then who is teaching MA?

2. If RP didn't really systemize his art to make it school friendly, who out there can say that their particular curriculum is 'the truest'?

3. How can there be rank without structure?

4. Who has the right to claim the name Modern Arnis on their school, when what they are doing is imposing their own structure on someone elses creation?

5...but if RP didn't put a systemizing 'stamp' on it, does that mean that, like JKD, MA is more a concept/philosophy and if you know the key ideas, you could be teaching shotokan techniques and still be teaching MA, or maybe an entire art without a stick and still call it MA?
6. I know it is touchy to say, but I think RP did a disservice to himself by not at least establishing/publishing a framework of somekind that his inheritors could build off of. If this does exist, I take it back, but from what I have read on this and other lists, he didn't.

Paul Martin

Hi Paul,

1. We all are.

2. Ahhh, the truest. The truest in anything is going to be a matter of viewpoint and quite often contention. We all teach MA from our individual point of view but not one of us are the truest. The truest left us two years ago.

3. Well, RP did it with the barest of structure as evidenced at the camps. In the rest of our schools it is up to the instructor.

4. The right? The interesting thing is that systematic structure has been imposed on the number of techniques that were taught by RP. So in that case, again, we all do.

5. Interesting question. I don't think so in that although there was the addition of shotokan punches/kicks as well as small circle jujutsu modifications in his locking, the majority of RP's actions were based on his FMA training so I'd say no to that question. On the other hand, one can't deny the karate and judo/jujutsu influence on Modern Arnis and I'd even say that those of us who trained in those arts prior to MA have a jump start on those who started in "MA proper."

6. To have set up one framework that superceded all others (i.e. ranking structure based upon set skills) was something that many of us worked on him for years and to no avail. Then again, if you look at him as the Father of Modern Arnis, then, the kids are out of the house and dad's passed away and we have to fend for ourselves and raise our own families, eh.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Tgace]

So to go back to the original question...where are things going? Or where would you like to see things go? Do any of you "powers that be" in MA have any long term goals? Or is it just going to be a "lets just all do our thing" and what ever the art evolves to it evolves to? If there are no plans for the future of MA than what is the purpose of all these organizations that keep popping up?

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by Tgace
1. So to go back to the original question...where are things going?
2. Or where would you like to see things go?
3. Do any of you "powers that be" in MA have any long term goals?
4. Or is it just going to be a "lets just all do our thing" and what ever the art evolves to it evolves to?
5. If there are no plans for the future of MA than what is the purpose of all these organizations that keep popping up?

Tgace,
I can only answer from my point of view but...

1. Things are finally in a mode of settling down. Tim, Dieter, Kelly, Jeff, Randi, Remy Jr. and I all have our own wheels in motion. I think the common ground we all share for the future is the propagation of the art. We all have different ways of doing it. Currently, mine is through publications.
2. I'd love to see us all in joint ventures from time to time.
3. Speaking for myself, my motto is, "If he (RP) could do it, anyone can." My long term goal is to get the information out on how to reach RP's skill, at least through understanding of the principles upon which Modern Arnis is based. Then it's up to each individual to get there.
4. Could be. I can't speak for anyone else. I do know that with the passing of time there will be influences to each of our techniques and styles, though.
5. If the assumption of no plans is true (and I don't think is is) then the reasons for all these organizations to pop up would be the same as any other organizations - money, prestige, self promotion, etc.

I do think each organization has it's own purpose for Modern Arnis and I don't think it's for the splintering of the art. Each person who is heading his/her organization is strong willed and is following a purpose. This point is a good one for the other leaders to speak on.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Tgace
All very true, but the Dog Brothers are IMHO an exception (in more ways than one ) rather than the rule. And Im not saying that those sorts of extremes are ideal either. Knocking yourself out of training with constant injury isnt good. But in my experience, many MA groups seem content to stay in the comfort zone of drill,drill,drill and feed and response training.

Oh, I agree. Getting hit by a stick, being swung full power is definately not something for everybody. I agree that many people are content with the usual drilling, but if they never practice against any kind of resistance or power, they will be in for a big surprise. I've done some stick sparring like the Dog Bros. do. The only exception being, is that it was with padded sticks. Of course, padding or not, you still feel it when you get hit, but it definately opens your eyes to the way someone is really going to be swinging that stick.

Mike

 

[Tgace]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson
Tgace,
I can only answer from my point of view but...

1. Things are finally in a mode of settling down. Tim, Dieter, Kelly, Jeff, Randi, Remy Jr. and I all have our own wheels in motion. I think the common ground we all share for the future is the propagation of the art. We all have different ways of doing it. Currently, mine is through publications.
2. I'd love to see us all in joint ventures from time to time.
3. Speaking for myself, my motto is, "If he (RP) could do it, anyone can." My long term goal is to get the information out on how to reach RP's skill, at least through understanding of the principles upon which Modern Arnis is based. Then it's up to each individual to get there.
4. Could be. I can't speak for anyone else. I do know that with the passing of time there will be influences to each of our techniques and styles, though.
5. If the assumption of no plans is true (and I don't think is is) then the reasons for all these organizations to pop up would be the same as any other organizations - money, prestige, self promotion, etc.

I do think each organization has it's own purpose for Modern Arnis and I don't think it's for the splintering of the art. Each person who is heading his/her organization is strong willed and is following a purpose. This point is a good one for the other leaders to speak on.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Thank you Mr. Anderson for the honest response. With all the politics, infighting and BS going on in MA these days, I think that all the major players should make honest statements of their intentions and try to find some common ground. Unless, they are more interested in money, prestige and self-promotion than they are in the art.

And to elaborate on #4...if each club takes their own path in developing their art at what point will it become something other than MA? Was MA-80 developed because you saw that your interpretation of MA was taking on such a different characteristic from MA that you needed to re-classify? Should there be some form of standardization within MA? Is it even possible?

 

[arnisador]

WMAA Mission Statement

 

[Tgace]

"Our first goal is to further the growth of Arnis in the world. Secondly, our wish is to establish standards, set forth by Grandmaster Remy A. Presas, throughout the Arnis community."

-WMAA Mission Statement

Fair enough...However I think that getting everybody in the MA community to accept your standards as "The Standard" and submitting to your registration program will be a pretty big hurdle. But it is a goal and an attempt to standardize.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Tgace
"Our first goal is to further the growth of Arnis in the world. Secondly, our wish is to establish standards, set forth by Grandmaster Remy A. Presas, throughout the Arnis community."

-WMAA Mission Statement

Fair enough...However I think that getting everybody in the MA community to accept your standards as "The Standard" and submitting to your registration program will be a pretty big hurdle. But it is a goal and an attempt to standardize.

At one time the world was flat. Everyone who knew anything knew this. It took some people to go for it to Prove otherwise. (* No one believed the mathematicians and physicists. *)

At one time no one could fly.

At one time no could travel in space let alone go to the moon.

At one time there were no computers or microwaves or cell phones, .... , .

It took people trying to move forward, right, wrong or indifferent. This is part of the reason of teh dysporia or fracture of Modern Arnis. Not everyone agrees to what is Right or Wrong. So, you have some groups and some independants all looking to see and do what they can do to promote Modern Arnis and FMA in general.

Enjoy Training! is what I say.

 

[arnisador]

I think the sense is to establish widely respected standards for the benefit of the community of arnis practitioners, not to necessarily supplant other Modern Arnis groups' standards. The WMAA has no beef with any group that's promoting the Professor's art in good faith!

Still, why not shoot for the moon, eh?

 

[Rocky]

I look at it like this it is going where ever it goes!!! No one person is going to unite Modern Arnis, and who would really want to, I sure wouldn't.

I think Rich said something about Remy losing control once back in the Philipines, this was very true. I also think it had something to do with why Remy would sometimes turn his back on his students that reached a certain level. Bowden Sween, Mike morton, Brian Jankowski, Steve Osaras, Mike mitchel, Rick Mitchell and yours truely, were all hard core stick fighters back in the day, we use to roll with the Pt guys, here in Michigan you had Miguel Balboa, Ray Jay Jankins, Dave Robetson, Dominic W. and a few guys who trained under Tuhon Erwin Ballarta a ledgend in the full contact ring. His and Tom Bisio's fights at the Play boy club are legendary, anyways, the first group I mentioned were all 3rd and 4th degrees Except me back in the early to mid 80s. They all took Modern Arnis to the next step, by playing with other FMA'ers, Remy would often show us how to work against others and even encourage us to work with and against other FMA styles. But it seems like when you reached a certain level and especially if others took notice and asked Remy about working with you he would always say oh "Don't entertain them" or "You have it already", so one by one Brian, Bowden, Mike and I left, we all ( I think) had falling outs with the old man. Now when I look back at it what Rich said makes a lot of sence, I beleave Remy was a little bit paranoid about his control. Which I now look back on and can somewhat under stand. I place more blame on his guys who never took the initative(sp) to dig deeper into Modern Arnis's background. I all but begged people to train in Balintawak with me as far back as 1985, but no one would listen but when Remy 10 years latter makes it public knowledge about Balitawak then they wanna train, go figure! Of course he would never recommend anyone to train with me.

Note: to Rich back when Master Power first started with GM Buot Gm Presas did his best to try to get Master Power to bi-pass me and train directly to Gm Buot, when GM Buot sent Master Power to me first for the fundementals it was a great day for me I know it may sound childish but it was a real feather in my cap, when GM Buot did that without even realizing what he did ( at least I don't think he did) it sent a message home to GM Presas.

Anyways, the ideal that Modern Arnis is a hodge podge of arts, is true I challenge anyone to show me an art that isn't.

I will agree with Paul Martin that it is true that GM Presas did not teach alot of the Crossada type of striking which is his real base for emptyhand striking, you can see it in his liniar movement and vertical punching with a slouched should position that he often did. It is also evident in his body connection with his delivery on his center line drive punching.

As far as his overall fighting ability of his students goes lets not forget that the true purpuse of his art is for basic self defense.

As with all arts you have roughly 3 groups, the Pretty technique types, the self defense types and the fighters, and Modern Arnis has them all. I offerd this to you before Paul I am only a few hours from Buffalo, I have afew guys that love to play very hard core, if that is what you are looking for we are here!! Just bring a good stick, a good attitude, and a few bucks to go out and play afterwords.

For the guy that tried block check counter on a Tai Boxer, what the hell were you thinking!! Block check counter is a drill primarilly to absorb, suck in and trap primarlly horizontal swining attacks. Sorry but you should know that in the first belt or two!!

As far as Remy's rank structure, in 1983 when I was 17 and Remy sent me by myself to Sweaden to teach I didn't know exacticaly what to do so we sat down and basically went over the requirements that he approved up in Flint for Master Demott back in 1976. Its what I had given to me at a seminat in 1977 from Remy, we sat down and revised a few things and thats what I tought there. I added a lot of things to it over the years becuase Remy and I had a different training regiment thatn others, but that doesn't make it more or less the truest requirements.

As far as at what point does what a certain organizations teaching become something other than Modern Arnis, I say when that group stops calling it Modern Arnis. Look Remy's art is a self defense art/concept if you will. Look in the computer world we had windows 3.1 or what ever now we have Windows XP, at the core of all the versions it is still windows, it just looks a little differnent from time to time. Modern Arnis is like a good computer program it is designed to blend with many different arts and practioners. What the practioner needs to figure out is which version of Modern Arnis best fits them. Of course my personal preference is the way I teach, Tims is the way he teaches, and master Anderson and so on. Nothing is going to change in modern Arnis eventually there will be a half of dozen little groups and a few larger ones and thats that. The great thing about Martial arts is the guys behind the groups have to let there product speak for them via the quality of their students, this is what will weed some people out over the years in fact it already has a little bit. Of course you are always going to have poor practioners teaching poor quality, its America its a price we pay for being free.

All I intend to do is teach Modern Arnis the way I see fit and with more of the core eliments that Remy gave to me. I don't really care about getting a real big group going I strive for good quality students that will Rock and Roll in any way you want to. All though the Progressive Modern Arnis maybe a little more hard core than most, it is not near as hard core as Cuentada De Mano. because like I said Modern Arnis's primary function is self defense first.



Sorry so long guys.

Rocky

 

[bloodwood]

Many of the clubs and organizations in the PI were confrontational and rivals. That is how Anciong's Balintawak got started, due to a disagreement among the leaders of Doce Pares. Maybe we are no different from those in the homeland. I believe the FMA are more confrontational than other art forms, so maybe we are just following many years of tradition. It could be that Remy did not have a rigid structure for his organization because he was not used to that from his past.
For this reason I don't think there will ever be a unified Modern Arnis. It's just the nature of the beast.
As for what Rocky said about Professor abandoning some people, just remember that Professor was the main attraction and unless you were helping him cover some of his obligations he was not about to share the seminar and camp pie while he was still active. That was his business and he was protecting it. If people were looking for part of the action he would not support it, rather he would squelch any interest. He was protecting his turf and he was good at it. The only problem with this was that it left no room for life after Remy.

bloodwood

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by DoxN4cer
1. Yes you may teach punching kicking and throws, but where did those methods in your school curriculum come from?

2. I remember back in the late 80's you used to make fun of other instructors calling their arnis "Kenpo with a stick"

3. now you have a big connection to Kenpo and Bando.

4. The belt ranking requirements on your web site even lists a number of Kenpo techniques.

5. Is it a coincidence that you happened to use the same name Ed Parker and Al Tracy used for a different technique, or is it that you weren't creative enough to at least change the name for the technique that you "borrowed"?

6. You even commute to Michigan to train in Balintawak. If your Modern Arnis training was so complete then why go to such lengths to diversify in such a way?

7. I apologize for sounding argumentative,

8. but it sounds like you're telling everybody here that you have something nobody in Modern Arnis has, and that is simply not true.

9. Much of the empty handed modern arnis has roots elsewhere, and vary from school to school.

10. Modern Arnis joint locks reflect GM Wally Jay's Small Circle Jujitsu influence. Tapi- Tapi tastes a lot like Balintawak, but not quite. Even the modern arnis Anyos are heavily flavored with Shotokan karate. You can't deny that.

Tim Kashino

I would like to respond to Mr. Kashino’s post:

1. Mostly from Remy. I’ve added certain strikes through the years, but the majority came from my time in Modern Arnis.

2. If this were said it would have been a statement on certain individuals and not on the masses. I think we can ALL say that we’ve seen people cross train into other systems and they look like they’re still doing their base system and not what they are trying to do.

3. No, I have a big connection with Kenpo and Bando practitioners. There is a big difference.

4. You don’t know what you’re talking about. There is no Kenpo or Bando in my curriculum. Of course you don’t have the ability to make an educated comment on this point seeing that you haven’t been my student since about 1988.

5. Yes, it is coincidence that the names are similar. Once again there are NO BORROWED Kenpo techniques.

6. My Modern Arnis is very complete, more so than most. If I want to know more about the roots on the system I need to do research on what Modern Arnis is composed of. After starting my training in Balintawak (which Remy himself opened the door for me with Manong Buot) I see why Remy did certain things. One needs to know about the past to plan for the future. This is the heart of what drives me and my organization.

7. No you’re not. You’ve been this way as long as I’ve known you. You always seem to be looking for a fight. Personally I feel that all your posts about me are personal attacks Lamont, I mean Tim.

8. I think we all have something that the others don’t have. Remy trained us all differently. I don’t want to sound like a snob, but I’m part of a very small group (outside the P.I.) of people that started in Modern Arnis and didn’t cross train into it. Because of this fact I have a very unique perspective on the art. Here is some simple math for you. In 1991 I started teaching at Powerhouse Gym. I would teach and train an approximate total of 12 hours a week. In a month I would log 48-60 hours per month. This would total up to 624 hrs a year. The average Modern Arnis school has Arnis classes twice a week. Classes usually run about an hour in length. Let’s throw in an extra hour for personal training. This ads up to 3 hrs per week, 12-15 hrs per month, 156 hrs per year. With this amount of extra training I had over the average modern arnis practitioner, it would allow me to pick up new material from Remy earlier and give me more time to work it. So as a full time modern arnis person, yes I do feel that I have things that some of the others don’t have. I feel the same goes for others like me that have started in modern arnis and do it as a full time system.

9. Remy did cross train, but when I got this material, it had already been incorporated by him into the system. As far as I am concerned, it is modern arnis.

10. Like I said in my last point, Remy incorporated these things into the system prior to my training. As far as I am concerned, it is modern arnis. If you look at Remy’s earlier books, you will see that he was teaching joint controls long before he ever met Wally Jay.

I never once said modern arnis didn’t have outside influences. In a post on another thread, I have explained some of my training over the years to better understand where things came from and why Remy might have added it to the system. As I stated earlier in this thread Modern Arnis has quite a bit of open hand techniques.

 

[Cruentus]

What gives?

I'm noticing a trend here. Hartman says something that is not intended to spark an arguement of any kind, and you jump all over it and attack him. I see that he was your instructor at one time, also.

So what's your problem? Why the "mad at daddy" syndrome?:vu:

:idunno: