Mental illness and TKD

[ave_turuta]

To be honest, I've seen this statistic bandied about, but I've never seen it attached to a source, or seen it given any kind of a useful context. It's usually just used as a rallying cry vs evil western medicine.



Is Ritalin dangerous? Over perscribed yes, but what health problems does it introduce?

It's in the DSM. I can see why changing the definition of mental illness around so that actual mental disorders don't count would be both attractive and convienent to your argument, but in thas case, it's not a matter of perspective. It is a recognized mental disorder. It's not like a brain tumor. (Something with is not considerd a mental disorder.)

Depression cannot be cured. It can only be controlled. I've witnessed the effects of clinical depression firsthand, and this isn't something that's corrected with a little exercise and some paramillitaristic rules.

You mean things like, psychotherapy?

Then I won't point out the contradiction with that statement and the apparent wholesale endorsement and support of/for eastern mysticism.

That's not really an accurate description of what the phychological community typically tends to advocate.

1. THe statistic was recently published in a piece in the Washington Post. I can look up the reference if needed. I agree wholeheartedly that the inclusion of more and more disorders under the "mental illness" label is very disturbing and responds to particular interests of the medical/pharmaceutical industry complex with which I entirely disagree, but that is a different matter.

2. With regards to the dangers posed by antidepressants to youth, the news have been filled with stories recently about the FDA probing into the safety of these drugs for kids (not just those with ADD, but also with other illnesses). Again, can look refs. up if needed (little time now).

3. About depression or the convenience/inconvenience to my argument: either I do not explain myself clearly (obviously that seems to be the case) or you are not willing to read what I am actually writing. In my previous post I made reference to both the more physiological as well as the preventive side of my argument. Medical: doing exercise has been documented to have a positive effect on patients with depression. What I am arguing is: there is room for seeing (possibly through more clinical trials) whether people diagnosed with bipolar, for instance, do better practicing some type of martial art than those who do not). That's why I am writing a TKD essay for my test, not a Ph.D. dissertation or an article in American Scientist! (gosh it's not like I am going to reinvent the wheel!) There is room, I argue, to explore within the medical profession alternative routes to the simple administration of drugs as the only way of bringing depression of other MI under control. Yes, that includes psychotherapy, but as someone who has witnessed this firsthand (yes, me too) I am all too aware of the limitations of both medication and psychotherapy. There are deeper issues associated with the development of mental illness that the medical establishment very often discards or undervalues: a profession so linked to pharmaceutical interests, for instance, has a surprisingly low interest in discussing the effects of poverty in the development of mental illness, and in a country with so many people uninsured and underinsured, acquiring the proper medical care of you suffer from this type of ailment can be an impossible task (our insurance for instance only covers 90% of the first 5 visits to the therapist: after that, you're on your own and quite frankly, we don't have the money, so no therapy for anyone).

There are other, non-biological reasons why people may see their conditions exacerbated (poverty, stress, financial burdens, etc.) This is where the preventive aspect I was talking about can come in: I do sincerely believe the martial arts can provide a fantastic opportunity to become integrated into programs of mental health nationwide, both amongst and kids, and provide considerable relief to many people. Why the martial arts? Because (a) for the most part, they don't require a lot of special or expensive equipment at least at the level I am talkign about; (b) they can be practiced almost anywhere. Why not explore the possibilities of integrating the martial arts into these treatments? If we don't try, how do we know whether it works or not?

Finally: if my initial comment seemed as a blind endorsement of "Eastern mysticism," then I can only say I explain myself really badly. I am a secular humanist and an atheist. I don't "buy" into things because they are fancy or marketeable, and I certainly do not suscribe to the irrational beliefs espoused by the new-age proponents of very fanciful (and expensive!) "Eastern philosophies" that try to find a solution to the extreme emptiness and rigged individualism of Starbucks America today. However, I do think that in the past decade there have been interesting attempts at reconciling some of the principles of Western medicine and TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) that are resulting in an increasing awareness amongst practitioners of both disciplines of the benefits that the other tradition can have for their own. That, nothing else, is what I was talking about. If a particular practice brings certain benefits (for instance, accupuncture: this I know because I have tried it and in my case it brought significant relief to my ailment), then its integration into our healing practices should be considered, not out of a sense of rejection of "the West" in favor of a mystified "East" but out of common sense. If accupunture works better than a drug for certain people (and as I said, it does in my case) why shoudl I be forced by my insurance company to take the drug and dismiss an alternative treatment that is more beneficial and less invasive? As for this not being the approach that the medical profession takes towards mental illness, I don´t know what your experience has been. Unfortunately, my own experience has taught me to look at anyone who claims to have authority over my brain or the brain of others by virtue of having a medical degree with suspicion: I have found more careless practitioners who lack any type of compassion towards their patients and just care about the sweet bucks they're making from us than the opposite. But hey, maybe it's just been our luck!

As someone who has seen a lot of suffering caused by mental illness in her loved ones, I don't think the medical establishments has all the answers. Whatever alternative emerges that can complement the existing treatments and therapies, including alternative medical practices and/or the integration of specific martial arts such as Tai Chi or other arts into a holistic kind of treatment, will be welcome on my part. And if we as MAs can do something to help professionals in the medical profession to devise new treatments that alleviate people's suffering, then I don't see where the problem is. I guess my final point is: if a particular practice (whether a particular treatment, or the practice of a particular discipline) can in some way improve the quality of life of people diagnosed with mental illness, I think the topic deserves, at least, some examination. Unfortunately, the very reductionist and money-driven approach of the medical profession in this country makes it very difficult for any non-drug based or psychotherapy based complement to treatment to being included in the healing process: if it doesn't bring them any money, why include it?? In any case, thank you for engaging me

Respectfully,
AT

 

[ave_turuta]

Any Martial Arts training can never replace the advice of a professional.

Please re-read my message. Who is talking about "replacing" anything?

Thanks.

 

[ave_turuta]

Clinicial studies! I'd be curious to see the citations if it's no trouble. I may have the college's library request copies for me since it's so easy to do!

These are some of the studies I have foundI can try to dig up the rest (again little time today). You can probably obtain them through your library´s ILL service.

M. Weiser et al. “Psychotherapeutic aspects of the martial arts,” in American Journal of Psychotherapy 49:1 (1995): 118-127.

C. Husted et al. “Improving quality of life for people with chronic conditions: the example of T’ai chi and multiple sclerosis,” in Alternative Therapy Health Medicine 5:5 (1999): 70-74.

FC Seitz et al. “The martial arts and mental health: the challenge of managing energy,” in Percept Mot Skills 70:2 (1990):459-64


[font=&quot]G. Zivin et al. “An effective approach to violent prevention: traditional martial arts in middle school,” in Adolescence 36: 143 (2001): 443-59. [/font]

 

[ave_turuta]

I'm guessing, that much like the NAPMA assertion that MA traininh helps a kids grades' it will all be ancedotal quoates

Perhaps you are guessing wrong.

 

[arnisador]

Cool. I'll check those out!

 

[Marginal]

1. THe statistic was recently published in a piece in the Washington Post.

2. With regards to the dangers posed by antidepressants to youth.

3. About depression or the convenience/inconvenience to my argument: either I do not explain myself clearly (obviously that seems to be the case) or you are not willing to read what I am actually writing.

4. As someone who has seen a lot of suffering caused by mental illness in her loved ones, I don't think the medical establishments has all the answers. Whatever alternative emerges that can complement the existing treatments and therapies, including alternative medical practices and/or the integration of specific martial arts such as Tai Chi or other arts into a holistic kind of treatment, will be welcome on my part.

1. I would like to see the source of that. (Not because I think you're wrong or anything, I'm just curious what the stat actually means.) I think the stat could actually be useful in a sense. If 1 in 4 actually do have a mental illness and not just a bunch of neruosies, perhaps it'll help null the longstanding stigmas attached to people suffering from real mental illnesses. (Like clinical depression.) IMO, there's a nasty polarization going on here. If it comes down to people just exercising and they're no longer mentall ill,or "snapping out of it" then the longstanding stigma which stems largely from the perception that mental illness is self-inflicted is then validated.

2. True. Still, I get a sense of tossing the baby out with the bathwater. Antidepressants actually help a great number of people for example.

3. Well, you did say that it wasn't a psychological illness. Would imply that depression's not covered in the 1 in 4 stat then, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

4. I've been in the same place. The drugs definitely do help a lot from what I've seen. (At least in the case of people who have been properly diagnosed.) The counciling, exercise etc doesn't accomplish nearly as much. They may compliment such treatment, but it doesn't replace it.

 

[Yeti]

There is a kid who, with his father, comes to group class fairly regularly. I'm definitely not an expert, but from what I know of it, the child has a pretty bad case of ADHD (I have two nephews who have been diagnosed with ADHD so I do know something about it and how it manifests itself).

I can say that having him in a group class is very distracting. He constantly talks to himself, can't follow directions and frequently does his own thing (which can be very dangerous).

I've only been seeing him in class since April when I joined this school, so I can't comment on how far he's progressed from when he first started TKD to now, but I haven't seen much improvement at all in the 4 months I've trained with him.

So, to answer your original question, I think that any martial art could be a very good thing for people who suffer from ADD / ADHD, but I don't think it could always serve as a substitute "treatment" for the disease. I would think it would depend on the severity of the case at hand.

Just my $0.02 FWIW.

 

[Han-Mi]

ADHD is not that much of a hinderance to MA training.... give them the same rules as everyone else and they fall in linf eventually, that has been my experience. Make sure they are pushin when they do something they shouldn't be and make sure you say their name a little more often.

Anyway, I've always been a "pull yourself up by you bootstraps" sorta mind set. Never put much stock in the excessive classification of mental disorders myself, But I can understand needing someone to talk to(therapist) or not feling great when there isn't anyone there to talk you up. To each there own I suppose.

 

[Marginal]

Just to be clear on this.

Someone who is upset because for example, their mother died isn't mentally ill. They may benefit from counciling, but they're not being treated for a mental illness.

Stuff like that is bootstraps kinda stuff.

Many mental disorders that require drug intervention do not fall into this realm. (Like post-pardum depression for the sake of another example.)