Meeting force with force

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

The point is, if I as a grown man fight off another grown man and I don't use and weapons then I did meet force with the same level of force, in such a situation we're both grown men and we both aren't using any weapons.

But you can still get in plenty of legal issues. If I decide to get into a boxing match with some dude I hate on the street, we could both get arrested for that. And one of us could get seriously injured or killed, and the other guy is now in serious legal trouble.

 

[Dirty Dog]

But you can still get in plenty of legal issues. If I decide to get into a boxing match with some dude I hate on the street, we could both get arrested for that. And one of us could get seriously injured or killed, and the other guy is now in serious legal trouble.

And even then the legalities are sticky...

In Colorado, at least, we have a law about 'mutual combat' law, that basically says if you both agree to the fight, it's not an assault. At most, you can be charged with misdemeanor disorderly conduct. And according to the family cop, even that is unlikely unless you do it in a place that disrupts other people. If you just go off in an empty field and wallop on each other, nobody cares.
And it's easy to agree. If you say you're going to smack me upside the head, and I say "Go ahead and try, lunchmeat!" I can be considered to have agreed to the fight.
At least, that is my understanding, as a non-LEO, based on my experiences and conversations with cops.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

And even then the legalities are sticky...

In Colorado, at least, we have a law about 'mutual combat' law, that basically says if you both agree to the fight, it's not an assault. At most, you can be charged with misdemeanor disorderly conduct. And according to the family cop, even that is unlikely unless you do it in a place that disrupts other people. If you just go off in an empty field and wallop on each other, nobody cares.
And it's easy to agree. If you say you're going to smack me upside the head, and I say "Go ahead and try, lunchmeat!" I can be considered to have agreed to the fight.
At least, that is my understanding, as a non-LEO, based on my experiences and conversations with cops.

That goes with what my dad said. Except where he worked, which was a rich area, they would definitely be charged with disorderly conduct, and if the cop chose to, there were other laws they were probably breaking that he could add on top of it.

That's also assuming that other people witnessed the agreement. I could ask someone to fight me, without anyone hearing, he agrees. Then he beats me up, and when the cops come to break us up, I say he assaulted me. It sounds out there, but from what I've been told that's something people around here do somewhat often. The only difference is they're not expecting to get beat up, but when they do they get pissed and press legal charges.

 

[Dirty Dog]

That goes with what my dad said. Except where he worked, which was a rich area, they would definitely be charged with disorderly conduct, and if the cop chose to, there were other laws they were probably breaking that he could add on top of it.

There are always more laws that can be piled on, if the officer wants to.
Our cop kid wrote a woman a ticket for disorderly conduct, because she's the neighborhood loon and is always causing a fuss.
She signed the ticket, then stepped back inside her house, closed the screen door, and refused to return his pen.
So he got another pen and wrote her a ticket for misdemeanor theft. Which she signed with the stolen pen.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There are always more laws that can be piled on, if the officer wants to.
Our cop kid wrote a woman a ticket for disorderly conduct, because she's the neighborhood loon and is always causing a fuss.
She signed the ticket, then stepped back inside her house, closed the screen door, and refused to return his pen.
So he got another pen and wrote her a ticket for misdemeanor theft. Which she signed with the stolen pen.

Sounds about right. Either way, dont steal pens from cops, and don't fight people in public. I feel like that's sensible advice for just about anyone

 

[Dirty Dog]

Sounds about right. Either way, dont steal pens from cops, and don't fight people in public. I feel like that's sensible advice for just about anyone

I don't not agree. (Wrong thread?)

 

[Tez3]

Talking of meeting force with force...……..
SAS hero who stormed Kenya hotel alone 'was out shopping as terrorists attacked'

 

[drop bear]

And even then the legalities are sticky...

In Colorado, at least, we have a law about 'mutual combat' law, that basically says if you both agree to the fight, it's not an assault. At most, you can be charged with misdemeanor disorderly conduct. And according to the family cop, even that is unlikely unless you do it in a place that disrupts other people. If you just go off in an empty field and wallop on each other, nobody cares.
And it's easy to agree. If you say you're going to smack me upside the head, and I say "Go ahead and try, lunchmeat!" I can be considered to have agreed to the fight.
At least, that is my understanding, as a non-LEO, based on my experiences and conversations with cops.

On every statement I did there was this bit where i say i did not give permission to fight me.

 

[PhotonGuy]

But you can still get in plenty of legal issues. If I decide to get into a boxing match with some dude I hate on the street, we could both get arrested for that. And one of us could get seriously injured or killed, and the other guy is now in serious legal trouble.

If you decide to get into a boxing match that means you willingly chose to get into a fight which could get you in trouble. Im talking about a situation where I don't plan or choose to get into a fight but where somebody attacks me and I fight back.

 

[PhotonGuy]

1. Don't go to places that you might get into a fight.

I agree you shouldn't go to places where you might get into a fight because you're looking for a fight but sometimes you might choose to go to a "rough" area for other reasons. For instance, you might choose to go to college not because you want to get into fights but because you want to get a higher education.

 

[jobo]

If you decide to get into a boxing match that means you willingly chose to get into a fight which could get you in trouble. Im talking about a situation where I don't plan or choose to get into a fight but where somebody attacks me and I fight back.

this debate has been done many times before, the problem is there are multiple jurisdiction s represented here with a many different interpretations of self defence, but I'm not aware of any that doesn't allow defence if someone attacks you, rather that what constitutes an attacker and how much force you can use seems to very

 

[PhotonGuy]

this debate has been done many times before, the problem is there are multiple jurisdiction s represented here with a many different interpretations of self defence, but I'm not aware of any that doesn't allow defence if someone attacks you, rather that what constitutes an attacker and how much force you can use seems to very

You're from Manchester. I don't know how it is in Manchester but in the USA you're allowed to defend yourself.

 

[jobo]

You're from Manchester. I don't know how it is in Manchester but in the USA you're allowed to defend yourself.

I just said that, your allowed to defend yourself almost any where

it's only when and how much that differ from place to place, in the UK you can defend if you feel threaten and you don't have to try and retreat or wait for them to throw the first punch,

but then nether does the other guy, if he feels an imminent threat of violence from you, it all gets pretty messy sorting out who is the aggressor.

we train fighting from a neutral or surrender stance, no going in to " gaurd" just so witnesses and particularly CCTV gets a clear picture of who started it, even if your running your mouth off, to prevoke the attack, as soon as they get in range, you can wack them

running ten yards and doing a flying kick is a bit harder to justify as self defence

 

[Tez3]

You're from Manchester. I don't know how it is in Manchester but in the USA you're allowed to defend yourself.

Of course we are allowed to defend ourselves why would you think we aren't, we are even allowed to do so with any weapon we have to had. It has to be reasonable force though, we can strike first if in fear of our lives what we can't do is knock someone down and then kick them in the head or shoot them in the back as they are running away.

 

[dvcochran]

You aren't required to meet force with the same force.

If you or someone is at risk of losing life or sustaining great bodily injury you are justified to use reasonable force to stop the threat.

If it is reasonable that you needed to use a weapon to stop the threat you are justified regardless if the attacker is armed or not.

I agree that is the legal party line, but who determines what is "reasonable"? The law makers left it intentionally vague so if there is any blowback from the altercation you better lawyer up. Sad but true. If I were ever attacked, regardless of the outcome, I would be the first person to file and get the story navigating the way I want it to. Because I am going to do my very best to make sure the attacker is the one who ends up on the ground, not me or my loved one. In other words, I am going to err on the side of certain safety for myself and my family. Then try my best to steer the consequences in my favor. Hopefully that simply means telling the truth regarding the attack. Careful wording can go a looong way.

 

[Flying Crane]

What if you get bashed but your loved one is amazing, takes down the attacker, incapacitates them with reasonable force, does first aid on you, calls the police, directs the traffic including helping old man across the road and doesn't even mess her hair up?

That’s how I know she is a keeper.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I just said that, your allowed to defend yourself almost any where

it's only when and how much that differ from place to place, in the UK you can defend if you feel threaten and you don't have to try and retreat or wait for them to throw the first punch,

but then nether does the other guy, if he feels an imminent threat of violence from you, it all gets pretty messy sorting out who is the aggressor.

we train fighting from a neutral or surrender stance, no going in to " gaurd" just so witnesses and particularly CCTV gets a clear picture of who started it, even if your running your mouth off, to prevoke the attack, as soon as they get in range, you can wack them

running ten yards and doing a flying kick is a bit harder to justify as self defence

If that's how you say it is in Manchester than I will take your word for it since that's where you're from. Im not from Manchester so as I said I wouldn't know. As for other places, that I also wouldn't know, I only know that in the USA the law says you can defend yourself. I know that not everybody on this forum is from the USA so for people from other countries, I will take their word for what they say about the legality of being able to defend yourself in their countries.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Of course we are allowed to defend ourselves why would you think we aren't, we are even allowed to do so with any weapon we have to had. It has to be reasonable force though, we can strike first if in fear of our lives what we can't do is knock someone down and then kick them in the head or shoot them in the back as they are running away.

As for being able to defend yourself in your country see my above post.

Now, if you do kick somebody in the head who is down or shoot somebody in the back who is running, that is clearly not self defense as they are not coming at you and not a threat in those cases.

 

[PhotonGuy]

So anyway, in regards to defending yourself and the reasonable use of force, I've even heard some people say that the scene where Mr. Miyagi took out the Cobra Kai, if that happened in real life that Mr. Miyagi could face assault charges, even though the Cobra Kai attacked him first. The way I see it Mr. Miyagi should not be charged if that was in real life since it was self defense, the Cobra Kai attacked first.

 

[jobo]

So anyway, in regards to defending yourself and the reasonable use of force, I've even heard some people say that the scene where Mr. Miyagi took out the Cobra Kai, if that happened in real life that Mr. Miyagi could face assault charges, even though the Cobra Kai attacked him first. The way I see it Mr. Miyagi should not be charged if that was in real life since it was self defense, the Cobra Kai attacked first.

it seems unlikely that in real life an elderly gentleman would take out a whole karate club so seems unlikely to ever be tested in court