Martial arts for self defense

[ballen0351]

So are you advocating streetfighting as the best method to train self defence?

no not at all. Im not advocating anything. I'm simply saying the cage and the class are not the same as real life and to think otherwise is foolish

 

[Hanzou]

While the cage and class isn't the same as "real life", to pretend that abilities learned in the cage or class aren't applicable to "da streetz" is utter and complete nonsense.

If you're not learning to hit, or take a hit in class, its pretty doubtful that you'll be able to pull it off when your life depends on it.

 

[Tez3]

Incorrect. There are rarely any KO's in the gym. Even less head KO's. Most of my successful KO's while sparring in fighting gyms over a span of 10 years are from spinning back kicks to the liver. Only 1 to the head. The only streetfight involving an MMA trained adult at my gym, that I've ever heard of in this same 10 years was from a female....ONE, that's it. Who would want to go to jail and/or get sued?

How can it be incorrect when I said 'they may'?
Spinning back kicks to the liver? Really? As you are an adherent of the Church of Video you must a video of that because I would really really like to see that. In over 17 years in MMA and 40 in TMA I've see a lot of KO's and TKOs, never seen a 'spinning back kick' do one.

 

[Steve]

Criminal are not skilled fighters. You do not need to defeat highly skilled MMA fighters in self defence. Muggers, rapists and other experienced criminals do not dedicate years of their life becoming highly skilled MMA fighters in order to get what they want from their victims.

They do not engage in sparring with their victims. You are confusing fighting with self defence, they are two different things.

Unfortunately, I can think of many high level martial artist who were rapists and experienced criminals. I think you have a skewed impression of how most women are rped and by whom. It's usually people they know and trust. Like their bjj coach.

Many is subjective. I can think of several cases I've read about over the last few years.

 

[ballen0351]

While the cage and class isn't the same as "real life", to pretend that abilities learned in the cage or class aren't applicable to "da streetz" is utter and complete nonsense.

If you're not learning to hit, or take a hit in class, its pretty doubtful that you'll be able to pull it off when your life depends on it.

and to pretend because you can do it in the cage you can do it in real life is equally nonsense.

 

[Steve]

However no one is actually comparing dicks ( just as well otherwise I would lose before beginning), what we have is someone telling us that sparring in the gym and fighting in an MMA comp is the best thing you can do to learn self defence, we are pointing out that it's not, why it's not and how we know it's not. So what we have is youngster's ( in mind if not physical age) braggadocio compared to the world weary, rather cynical and definitely experienced police officers real life testimony, so not even a case of comparing dicks more like 'look son, I know you are excited about your MMA class but really, trust me when we say and MMA fight is not like the scuffles you had as a kid'.

The lesson here is that the best self defense training is to work as a cop. I can buy that, although it might not be practical for everyone.

 

[Hanzou]

and to pretend because you can do it in the cage you can do it in real life is equally nonsense.

Not equally, no. I learned and used the guard in class, and I used it effectively in a self defense situation as well. We've posted examples of women surviving rape attempts via the Triangle Choke, which they no doubt learned in class or the cage.

 

[ballen0351]

Not equally, no. I learned and used the guard in class, and I used it effectively in a self defense situation as well. We've posted examples of women surviving rape attempts via the Triangle Choke, which they no doubt learned in class or the cage.

and? i didn't say it never works. I said it's not the same. I've seen very highly trained people,freeze when the bullets fly for real. I've seen people freeze the first time a bad dude attacks them, why because it's real this,time. So while any training is better then no training just because you train doesn't mean it will work in the real world like it did in class. Like I asked have you ever tried to punch, or in your case arm,bar a guy high on PCP?

 

[Hanzou]

and? i didn't say it never works. I said it's not the same. I've seen very highly trained people,freeze when the bullets fly for real. I've seen people freeze the first time a bad dude attacks them, why because it's real this,time. So while any training is better then no training just because you train doesn't mean it will work in the real world like it did in class. Like I asked have you ever tried to punch, or in your case arm,bar a guy high on PCP?

So essentially you're arguing nothing here because no one is saying what you're arguing against. What DB and Fried are saying is that MMA style training is effective for self defense and self protection because it teaches you how to fight off trained people of various sizes. If you can fight off trained people, you have a better chance of being able to fight off less trained people. As you said, being trained is better than not being trained.

As for the guy high on PCP, I'd choke him out. Fortunately I know a nice variety of chokes and how to apply them from years of MMA style training.

 

[drop bear]

The lesson here is that the best self defense training is to work as a cop. I can buy that, although it might not be practical for everyone.

Well only if you want to be a cop. If you were afraid of being mugged. You probably should just walk wads of cash through bad neighborhoods.

 

[ballen0351]

The lesson here is that the best self defense training is to work as a cop. I can buy that, although it might not be practical for everyone.

no the best self defense training is experience actually defending yourself but that's not practical for most people.

 

[Steve]

Well only if you want to be a cop. If you were afraid of being mugged. You probably should just walk wads of cash through bad neighborhoods.

just trying to figure out what tez and ballen are going on about. It's either that you really need to be a cop, or you need to be British, to learn self defense. Not sure for tez, but I think ballen is in the cop camp. Could that be considered a cop out?

Of course, this all changes from thread to thread. It's a fluid kind of logic that focuses on flaws in a competitive training model without really applying the same lens to non-competitive training. Some times, it's just anything but MMA is good for self defense. Sometimes it's anti sport. I think mostly, it's just anti-hanzou. Sorry, hanzou!

 

[ballen0351]

So essentially you're arguing nothing here because no one is saying what you're arguing against. What DB and Fried are saying is that MMA style training is effective for self defense and self protection because it teaches you how to fight off trained people of various sizes. If you can fight off trained people, you have a better chance of being able to fight off less trained people. As you said, being trained is better than not being trained.

I'm not arguing anything. Im saying just because you can do it in practice doesn't mean you can do it when your life is in danger.

As for the guy high on PCP, I'd choke him out. Fortunately I know a nice variety of chokes and how to apply them from years of MMA style training.

good luck lol

 

[ballen0351]

just trying to figure out what tez and ballen are going on about. It's either that you really need to be a cop, or you need to be British, to learn self defense. Not sure for tez, but I think ballen is in the cop camp. Could that be considered a cop out?

Of course, this all changes from thread to thread. It's a fluid kind of logic that focuses on flaws in a competitive training model without really applying the same lens to non-competitive training. Some times, it's just anything but MMA is good for self defense. Sometimes it's anti sport. I think mostly, it's just anti-hanzou. Sorry, hanzou!

Well hanzou wasn't here when we started this topic so there goes that but nice try being the instigator that seems to be you MO anyway so carry on.....as for the rest I've said several times all training to include non-competative is just not real

 

[Steve]

no the best self defense training is experience actually defending yourself but that's not practical for most people.

So then it's pointless, really... For most people. Right? or maybe, given this, MMA is better than playing bingo at the senior hall. You are so slick. Must be your interviewing techniques training. What is it... Wicklander zulowski?

 

[drop bear]

no not at all. Im not advocating anything. I'm simply saying the cage and the class are not the same as real life and to think otherwise is foolish

No. It is the wrong way of looking at it. So today we had a ripping hot boxer try kickboxing sparring. Now he has had no technical training in kickboxing. But his boxing has given him these meta conceps of movement physicality timing and so on that he could use to adopt the tactics of kickboxing.

Now not only is the street different to the cage. The street is different to the street. You have to adapt as the situation adapts and to do that your basic skill set needs to be trained and then situational tactics aplied to that.

So sparring resisted training and competition is where you find your ability to apply these basic methods.

 

[ballen0351]

So then it's pointless, really... For most people. Right?

Well in reality it is pointless since most people will never use MMA or TMA or any other MA to actually defend themselves.

or maybe, given this, MMA is better than playing bingo at the senior hall. You are so slick. Must be your interviewing techniques training. What is it... Wicklander zulowski?

again try following along you showed up late I've never argued MMA was bad so cool your jets I said because you are king of the ring means little in the real world because it's just not the same.

 

[ballen0351]

So sparring resisted training and competition is where you find your ability to apply these basic methods.

perhaps and all that goes out the window when you add factors that are against the rules and not trained for in sport

 

[drop bear]

So essentially you're arguing nothing here because no one is saying what you're arguing against. What DB and Fried are saying is that MMA style training is effective for self defense and self protection because it teaches you how to fight off trained people of various sizes. If you can fight off trained people, you have a better chance of being able to fight off less trained people. As you said, being trained is better than not being trained.

As for the guy high on PCP, I'd choke him out. Fortunately I know a nice variety of chokes and how to apply them from years of MMA style training.

Crush their throat. It seems to reset their brains a bit.

Now this becomes my point. I dont have to teach hanzaou a whole toolset to get that crush on. He already has the positional basics.

 

[Hanzou]

I'm not arguing anything. Im saying just because you can do it in practice doesn't mean you can do it when your life is in danger.

But on the other hand we have countless examples of people being able to perform techniques on bad guys because of their training in the gym/cage.

good luck lol

Well it's true, someone completely tripped out on drugs is pretty resilient to pain, but they still need air to breathe and oxygen for their brains. Further, their level of hyper-activity will cause the choke to effect them faster than normal.