Martial arts for self defense

[Flying Crane]

I'd be more impressed if you could lick your eyebrows.

Oh I can, and it is most impressive and effective. Just ask around, people will tell you. Ahem.

However, that is a different thing from comparing dicks.

 

[FriedRice]

When did I say I havent? I also never said MMA training wasn't a good thing. I said training no matter how real can never reach the same level of reality since no matter how"tough" your school is they still have rules and safety measures in place

Getting knocked out is as real as it gets. You're incapacitated. Technically, your life is at the mercy of the guy who KO'ed you, if that was in a dark alley somewhere.

No one dies in regular training is because the guy who did the knocking out, stopped on his own or was stopped by the Ref.

If you can't stop some average, Amateur MMA fighter from knocking you out with giant pillows for Boxing gloves on, in a controlled environment.....then my point was, your ability to really defend yourself should be improved, AND, you're not as competent as you thought you were....like this cop:

We train with simunitions (basically realistic paintball guns) and guess what its still not real. It never reaches the same stress and Adrenalin and fear as doing it for real because if I screw up and get shot I don't really die it just stings a little

I remember getting shot at. It wasn't stressful at all, and felt surreal. Like I was in a trance and it wasn't really happening as I reacted. Then it was over, so quickly, as the thug ran out the store. While sparring hard against someone that I know who beats me 9 out of 10 times....is way more stressful.

 

[FriedRice]

Sparring hard and sparring to try to purposely Knock your partner "out cold" are two different things.

Incorrect. This depends on your gym's definition. Getting caught in the chin with most of these punches will knock most people out cold:

 

[ballen0351]

Incorrect. This depends on your gym's definition. Getting caught in the chin with most of these punches will knock most people out cold:

Yes accidentally knocking someone out when training hard happens and is expected. Purposely trying to hurt someone is reckless and unnecessary

 

[ballen0351]

Getting knocked out is as real as it gets. You're incapacitated. Technically, your life is at the mercy of the guy who KO'ed you, if that was in a dark alley somewhere.

No one dies in regular training is because the guy who did the knocking out, stopped on his own or was stopped by the Ref.

Correct rules like Ive been saying its not real

If you can't stop some average, Amateur MMA fighter from knocking you out with giant pillows for Boxing gloves on, in a controlled environment.....then my point was, your ability to really defend yourself should be improved, AND, you're not as competent as you thought you were....like this cop:

And just because you can stop some average, amateur MMA fighter in a ring with rules means little in the real world. Its better then nothing which is why we train but it really means nothing until your in the real thing. Ive seen trained SWAT officers freeze with the "paper targets"
are now real live men and shoot back at you

I remember getting shot at. It wasn't stressful at all, and felt surreal. Like I was in a trance and it wasn't really happening as I reacted. Then it was over, so quickly, as the thug ran out the store. While sparring hard against someone that I know who beats me 9 out of 10 times....is way more stressful.

Its not the getting shot at part that's stressful. Its knowing your going to get shot at when you go through that door and doing it anyway

 

[Tez3]

Oh I can, and it is most impressive and effective. Just ask around, people will tell you. Ahem.

However, that is a different thing from comparing dicks.

However no one is actually comparing dicks ( just as well otherwise I would lose before beginning), what we have is someone telling us that sparring in the gym and fighting in an MMA comp is the best thing you can do to learn self defence, we are pointing out that it's not, why it's not and how we know it's not. So what we have is youngster's ( in mind if not physical age) braggadocio compared to the world weary, rather cynical and definitely experienced police officers real life testimony, so not even a case of comparing dicks more like 'look son, I know you are excited about your MMA class but really, trust me when we say and MMA fight is not like the scuffles you had as a kid'.

 

[Flying Crane]

However no one is actually comparing dicks ( just as well otherwise I would lose before beginning), what we have is someone telling us that sparring in the gym and fighting in an MMA comp is the best thing you can do to learn self defence, we are pointing out that it's not, why it's not and how we know it's not. So what we have is youngster's ( in mind if not physical age) braggadocio compared to the world weary, rather cynical and definitely experienced police officers real life testimony, so not even a case of comparing dicks more like 'look son, I know you are excited about your MMA class but really, trust me when we say and MMA fight is not like the scuffles you had as a kid'.

oh yeah, i see it and I get it. But there was a fair bit of dick comparison going on as well. The young-uns can't help themselves.

 

[FriedRice]

Yes accidentally knocking someone out when training hard happens and is expected. Purposely trying to hurt someone is reckless and unnecessary

No. When I'm purposefully trying to punch my partner, flushed on the chin at 50-70% power (medium sparring), it's no accident if I knock him out. At 71-100% power during hard sparring, it's definitely not an accident as I'm trying to KO him.

And light sparring can at times, spike ot Medium or Hard sparring. It just depends on the gym.

 

[Tez3]

And light sparring can at times, spike ot Medium or Hard sparring. It just depends on the gym.

Gyms that are training professional fighters are very focussed on certain things, and sparring to KO each other isn't one of them for the reasons I've already given, frankly I'd leave them out of any discussion on self defence. They are doing one job and one job only to win in the ring/cage. Other gyms where the testosterone level is high and young people are out to prove a point may well go overboard on the sparring, won't hurt them much, perhaps pride but it's a safe place to try and bang each other out, again though it's not self defence training. They may be able to KO each other quite successfully but outside the gym, probably not so much, rush of blood to the head, and 'yay I do this in the gym' will get them into trouble, they may even be fighting when it's not necessary.
There's no doubt that many MMA fighters can defend themselves if attacked outside competition but and this is a very big but, they change tactics, they don't play to the rules and they may not be looking to KO the attacker but rather to disengage with the least damage to themselves. MMA people are martial artists who like other martial artists will defend themselves but MMA in itself and hard sparring in itself doesn't mean much, it's always techniques and 'headology' that works, not the ability to KO someone in a gym.

 

[FriedRice]

Correct rules like Ive been saying its not real

Incorrect. A KO is an incapacitation. You are now helpless on your own after being KO'ed, regardless of where it took place.

And just because you can stop some average, amateur MMA fighter in a ring with rules means little in the real world.

My point has always been that, the average cop/soldier with only their department's training will lose in H2H combat vs. most Amateur MMA Fighters, there size & weight.

A KO is much worse in the street as your head can crack on the way down, hitting the cement and you die. You are now at the mercy of your attacker who can head stomp
your unconscious self until brain oozes out. How is this not the real world? And who's going to be better at KO'ing people....you, who don't spar hard or some average
Ammy MMA Fighter who does? Now get into the Pro MMA fighters at merely the local level who's like ranked #300 or some crap, he's going to be much better than that Ammy fighter who
just dropped you....and he's not even close to anywhere near, UFC level yet.

Its better then nothing which is why we train but it really means nothing until your in the real thing. Ive seen trained SWAT officers freeze with the "paper targets"
are now real live men and shoot back at you

Shooting a gun is not the same. I probably shoot just as much or more at the range than the average cop. Most cops have never even been in a firefight, all the way to retirement.

Its not the getting shot at part that's stressful. Its knowing your going to get shot at when you go through that door and doing it anyway

Well I should hope that a cop would have better training doing this than an MMA fighter.

 

[FriedRice]

oh yeah, i see it and I get it. But there was a fair bit of dick comparison going on as well. The young-uns can't help themselves.

being closer to dying of old age, is hardly anything to brag about.

 

[ballen0351]

Incorrect. A KO is an incapacitation. You are now helpless on your own after being KO'ed, regardless of where it took place.

Yes but once your KO'ed its over. The ref o someone steps in and saves you. That doesnt always happen in the real world

My point has always been that, the average cop/soldier with only their department's training will lose in H2H combat vs. most Amateur MMA Fighters, there size & weight.

Nonsense. Each department has its own unique self defense programs. Some might loose some might win. BUT in the end The police or military will win because we dont fight fair.

A KO is much worse in the street as your head can crack on the way down, hitting the cement and you die. You are now at the mercy of your attacker who can head stomp
your unconscious self until brain oozes out. How is this not the real world?

That is real world fighting in a gym with padded floors and rules are not.

And who's going to be better at KO'ing people....you, who don't spar hard or some average
Ammy MMA Fighter who does?

I dont need to ever "spar" to be able to knock someone out so who knows who will be better? I personally have knocked people out so my lack of "hard" sparing means little

Now get into the Pro MMA fighters at merely the local level who's like ranked #300 or some crap, he's going to be much better than that Ammy fighter who
just dropped you....and he's not even close to anywhere near, UFC level yet.

Yeah if we are fighting within the rules of his sport. I said before I dont fight fair. I have OC Spray,Tasers, batons, and guns and lots of friends so...Good luck to him

Shooting a gun is not the same. I probably shoot just as much or more at the range than the average cop. Most cops have never even been in a firefight, all the way to retirement.

and? The point wasn't who shoots better. It was that when things get "REAL" you have no idea how you are going to react. NO amount of training simulates real life

 

[Buka]

I've been in about 15 street fights and my family used to own a grocery store in the 'hood where I had to deal with bums all day long at the cash register, then I owned a business where I had to deposit $2k plus, in cash, twice a day....some days, up to $5k in cash....

I know how difficult and dangerous running a store like that is. Sometimes it's scary. But you know what? When it gets over the top and you need help.....guys like ballen0351 show up and help you.

 

[FriedRice]

Gyms that are training professional fighters are very focussed on certain things, and sparring to KO each other isn't one of them for the reasons I've already given, frankly I'd leave them out of any discussion on self defence. They are doing one job and one job only to win in the ring/cage. Other gyms where the testosterone level is high and young people are out to prove a point may well go overboard on the sparring, won't hurt them much, perhaps pride but it's a safe place to try and bang each other out, again though it's not self defence training.

You make it sound like I said that sparring for KO's is everyday or something. Is your gym on the same level as America's Top Team or The Blackzilians? Many sparring sessions, if I didn't take a knee vs. their lower level Pro fighters, I was going to get KTFO.

[/QUOTE] They may be able to KO each other quite successfully but outside the gym, probably not so much, rush of blood to the head, and 'yay I do this in the gym' will get them into trouble, they may even be fighting when it's not necessary. [/QUOTE]

Incorrect. There are rarely any KO's in the gym. Even less head KO's. Most of my successful KO's while sparring in fighting gyms over a span of 10 years are from spinning back kicks to the liver. Only 1 to the head. The only streetfight involving an MMA trained adult at my gym, that I've ever heard of in this same 10 years was from a female....ONE, that's it. Who would want to go to jail and/or get sued?

There's no doubt that many MMA fighters can defend themselves if attacked outside competition but and this is a very big but, they change tactics, they don't play to the rules and they may not be looking to KO the attacker but rather to disengage with the least damage to themselves. MMA people are martial artists who like other martial artists will defend themselves but MMA in itself and hard sparring in itself doesn't mean much, it's always techniques and 'headology' that works, not the ability to KO someone in a gym.

ufc mma fighter vs street fighter

 

[ballen0351]

Oh Not another member of the Church of Youtube

 

[FriedRice]

Yes but once your KO'ed its over. The ref o someone steps in and saves you. That doesnt always happen in the real world

Who saves you in the street when you get KO'ed?

Nonsense. Each department has its own unique self defense programs. Some might loose some might win. BUT in the end The police or military will win because we dont fight fair.

Well no duh if you're going to pull a gun on someone in the street that's serving a beatdown to your face, and shoot them to win. Good for you.

How many cops got ambushed recently, while just sitting in their car? How many peasants in sandals w/AK's and hardly any training have managed to kill many US soldiers for the past 70+ years? They certainly didn't fight fair neither. So now what, all should train and carry AK-47's everywhere?

That is real world fighting in a gym with padded floors and rules are not.

I dont need to ever "spar" to be able to knock someone out so who knows who will be better? I personally have knocked people out so my lack of "hard" sparing means little

Yeah if we are fighting within the rules of his sport. I said before I dont fight fair. I have OC Spray,Tasers, batons, and guns and lots of friends so...Good luck to him

and? The point wasn't who shoots better. It was that when things get "REAL" you have no idea how you are going to react. NO amount of training simulates real life

If you were to tell me that you're near your golden years and can't risk your money-maker, that I'd accept as a good excuse.

 

[ballen0351]

Who saves you in the street when you get KO'ed?

ME

Well no duh if you're going to pull a gun on someone in the street that's serving a beatdown to your face, and shoot them to win. Good for you.

Well thats certainly a possibility since in the street there are no rules and no ref to stop the beat down to my face to the point I DIE so yeah good for me

How many cops got ambushed recently, while just sitting in their car? How many peasants in sandals w/AK's and hardly any training have managed to kill many US soldiers for the past 70+ years? They certainly didn't fight fair neither. So now what, all should train and carry AK-47's everywhere?

Well I do carry a gun everywhere for self defense so yeah but thats not the topic​

If you were to tell me that you're near your golden years and can't risk your money-maker, that I'd accept as a good excuse.

No Im telling you the street has no rules Ive pulled guns off 10 year old kids, blades off teen girls so weapons are one more thing you need to think about in the real world that you dont worry about in the ring where a ref checks you before entering

 

[drop bear]

Criminal are not skilled fighters. You do not need to defeat highly skilled MMA fighters in self defence. Muggers, rapists and other experienced criminals do not dedicate years of their life becoming highly skilled MMA fighters in order to get what they want from their victims.

They do not engage in sparring with their victims. You are confusing fighting with self defence, they are two different things.

Is there a whole list of this stuff what criminals are and what they do?

Why wouldnt a criminal train to fight?

 

[drop bear]

ME


Well thats certainly a possibility since in the street there are no rules and no ref to stop the beat down to my face to the point I DIE so yeah good for me

Well I do carry a gun everywhere for self defense so yeah but thats not the topic​

No Im telling you the street has no rules Ive pulled guns off 10 year old kids, blades off teen girls so weapons are one more thing you need to think about in the real world that you dont worry about in the ring where a ref checks you before entering

So are you advocating streetfighting as the best method to train self defence?

 

[drop bear]

ROFLMAO, I see you have never met British squaddies out of uniform and out on the town.

They are whiney generally. As a mate of mine once said. "you cant even invade our pub. How do you protect your country"