Marine Corps Martial Arts Program

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by budopunjabi
I have trained with them.

How many years?

Originally posted by budopunjabi
I have trained extensively in Okinawa.

With whom and how long?

Originally posted by budopunjabi
I have many collegues in the Armed Forces

That's not what I said.
WHEN YOU HAVE SEEN FIRST HAND OR ACTUALLY TRAINED WITH A MEMBER OF THE U.S. MARINE CORPS' MA PROGRAM THEN,AND ONLY THEN WILL I RESPECT YOUR COMMENTS ON THE SUBJECT.

Did I come in loud and clear?

 

[budopunjabi]

You seem v. sure of your abilities and seem to be in love with the marine corps training programm.


I havnt told you an ounce of what I know or have done, and in response to you, I dont think your knowledge burries mine, but instead wouldnt scratch the surface.

In Budo

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by budopunjabi
You seem v. sure of your abilities and seem to be in love with the marine corps training programm.

Not in love with it.
But I have seen it and feel I am qualified to have an opinion about what I saw..............where yours is based on WHAT?

Originally posted by budopunjabi
I havnt told you an ounce of what I know or have done, and in response to you, I dont think your knowledge burries mine, but instead wouldnt scratch the surface.

Yeah right........all I and others have to do is look at the posts you have made here and can tell the depth and scope of your knowledge on the subjects I mentioned.
Anytime you think you know more just step up to the plate.

 

[DKI Girl]

budopunjabi

Some friendly advice....RyuShiKan thinks he is correct on any topic concerning martial arts....and that no one elses opinion matters. So it's just not worth it to get into an argument with him over opinions or your training versus his training....it's a dead end and will get you no where.

From the first day I posted on this forum he has done nothing but attack my credibility and my insructor. So if you just ignore him like I do then you will find some good people on this forum that you can talk with and learn from.

dki girl

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by DKI Girl
budopunjabi

Some friendly advice....RyuShiKan thinks he is correct on any topic concerning martial arts....and that no one elses opinion matters.

That couldn’t be rather from the truth.
I am always glad to hear other opinions as long as they have some basis in reality or are backed by examples of actually experience instead of “well I heard it from a guy who knew a guy that read a book that saw a photo of something, something.”

You got some facts to support what you say.......I am all ears.

Originally posted by DKI Girl
So it's just not worth it to get into an argument with him over opinions or your training versus his training....it's a dead end and will get you no where.
dki girl

In your case DkiGirl……..it is.
Especially since I started training when you were in diapers.
And started training in tutie and kyusho long before your teacher.

Originally posted by DKI Girl
From the first day I posted on this forum he has done nothing but attack my credibility and my insructor. So if you just ignore him like I do then you will find some good people on this forum that you can talk with and learn from.

That’s correct however I wouldn't call it an “attack”.
You were posting some outright nonsense about kyusho on here.
You swore up and down how you knew certain things about kyusho and I merely asked you for clarification on more than a few matters and you snuck away without answering………and to date still haven’t.
I think you’re still just peeved because you met someone that is actually licensed in TCM and knows what the hell they are talking and pretty much told you that you didn’t have a clue.

You will find I cannot stand BS artists in the martial art.


It would seem budopunjabi and you are on the same wave length since you both seem to avoid my questions about what you base your opinions on.

I’ll ask again.

Budopunjabi,

You claim you trained in Okinawa.

You say you trained with “them”.

How long and with whom did you train in Okinawa?

When you say “them” whom are you referring to?


DKIGirl,

Your question still stands from a few months ago.........feel free to go back to thread and answer it.



So do either of you, Budopunjabi & DKIGirl, have any first hand experience with topic at hand?…….the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program in case you forgot.
By first hand I mean have you been present for a demonstration of it or actually tried it?
If you have I am all ears and would welcome you educated input…………

 

[arnisador]

Please, keep the discussion polite and respectful.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[Matt Stone]

It seems to me that DKI Girl struck the first blow this round...

Budopunjabi -

I have trained with RyuShiKan. He is a good friend of mine, perhaps one of the best ones I have ever had. But that came after I met him to train with him.

He is one of Taika Seiyu Oyata's personal students and is ranked at yondan under him. He is extremely knowledgeable, and while it may not come across on this forum, he is actually not quite as brusque as he may seem.

DKI Girl and RyuShiKan got into a fight over some issues related to George Dillman and his training under Taika Oyata. DKI Girl made some comments regarding her training in kyusho under Dillman, and RyuShiKan (who is licensed in traditional Chinese medicine, as well as having trained under Oyata - the man who gave Dillman the bulk of what knowledge he has regarding the subject ) countered with questions that DKI Girl either could not or would not reply to.

Bear that in mind when deciding on whether to take her advice or not.

Bottom line, if you (or anyone) claims a certain thing, they simply need to be prepared to back up their claims with valid sources.

You said to RyuShiKan -

You seem v. sure of your abilities and seem to be in love with the marine corps training programm.

I havnt told you an ounce of what I know or have done, and in response to you, I dont think your knowledge burries mine, but instead wouldnt scratch the surface.

That was quite a presumptious post. Your profile says little about your background... Care to share?

You also said -

I have trained with them.

I have trained extensively in Okinawa.

I have many collegues in the Armed Forces

I assume by "them" you meant the Marines. When did you train with them?

If you trained extensively in Okinawa, I know I would enjoy hearing from another source what such training was like. While I trained in Japan, I have yet to have the opportunity to train in Okinawa... Perhaps some day.

What do your colleagues in the Armed Forces do? I am in the US Army, have been for 11 years. I have been in the Infantry, the Cavalry and now work in the JAG Corps. I would be curious to know what your military friends do for training, and how they maintain their skills with the hectic pace of military life.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1

I assume by "them" you meant the Marines. When did you train with them?

I thought he might have been talking about Mr. Miyazato as I doubt he is old enough to have trained with Miyagi.
But then again......budopunjabi wasn't really clear on that point as well as others.
Of course if he were to supply us with his name and the name of the person he supposedly studied with in Okinawa I could make a quick phone call and find out………but I doubt any of that info will be forth coming.


I don’t mind other opinions as long as they are supported by some sort of qualifying agent ……..however, I do hate BS artists and have no qualms about exposing them.

 

[budopunjabi]

Well, i will just leave it here. It seems you are very agitated person and cant stand any other opinion other than your own. Im not gonna get into any more arguments over this, and I certainly dont have to prove my skills or who I have trained to a person I have never met in my life. I dont think you understand the essence of respect for other people's opinions. your friend who posted another reply seems much nicer and i will gladly continue talks with him regarding martial arts. Your talk of my instructor is better than yours, ive been learning longer than you, is all nonsense and from that I can tell your maturity in the martial arts. Your very good at pointing at other people who you dont even know, thats not what i think people aim to learn through martial arts. Im proud of my instructor, and chances are if you knew who he was you wouldnt be making these kind of comments.
In Budo

 

[RyuShiKan]

There is a funny pattern I have noticed on these threads.
Every time someone disagrees with me they accuse me of not wanting to hear others opinions but then won't support theirs with anything. Sounds like a cop out to me.

Originally posted by budopunjabi
Well, i will just leave it here. It seems you are very agitated person and cant stand any other opinion other than your own.

You can cry “foul” all you want and play the “victim” but like I have said at least 2 times in this post……….I don’t mind others opinions as long as they have some tangible basis for it. Several of the folks that made comments about the training are either present US Military or former.
Since you have never actually seen the Marine Corps MA training in person nor have you never done it I really wonder what you base your opinion on.
I have seen it done 3 feet in front of me and while I don’t “love it” as you misquoted me or took what I said out of context I do think it's not bad. Why don’t you show some maturity and qualify your comments/opinions with some reasons.
Give us some detailed examples of techniques used in the Marine Corps MA training that you think should be improved.........or are you just going to trash talk something you have never seen or done?

Originally posted by budopunjabi
I certainly dont have to prove my skills or who I have trained to a person I have never met in my life.

You’re the one that brought up the subject of your “extensive training in Okinawa and with “them” (?)” but now you won’t say who…………that’s kind of odd.

Originally posted by budopunjabi
Im proud of my instructor, and chances are if you knew who he was you wouldnt be making these kind of comments.
In Budo

Enlighten me.



From
Phil's Field Guide to Trolls
An Analysis of Forum Fauna

-- Contrarian Troll Warning Sign Number Two: Constant references to the forum membership as monolithic. "You guys are all just [descriptor]." "You're a lynch mob." "You all just want to ridicule anyone who disagrees with you."

-- Contrarian Troll Warning Sign Number Three: Intellectual dishonesty. This is only a mild indicator that is not limited to trolls, but Contrarians display it to a high degree. They will lie about things they've said, pull posts out of context in a manner that changes their meanings significantly, and generally ignore any points for which they have no ready answers.

-- Contrarian Warning Sign Number Five: Attempts to condescend. Pursued by Troll Bashers (see Natural Predators below), the Contrarian will seek refuge in condescending remarks that repeatedly scorn his or her critics as beneath notice -- all the while continuing to respond to them.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Budopunjabi,

Your profile says YKKF which I believe stands for Yudansha KobuJitsu Karate Do……at least that is what I came up with on an internet search.

http://www.ykkfindia.org/index.htm

It shows your affiliated to R. Yamanaka which I am guessing is the one and only Ron Yamanaka.
Anyone that wants the scoop on Ron Yamanaka should email Patrick McCarthy. Patrick relayed several “lovely” stories about him to me years ago. I wouldn’t want to repeat them since I might not do as good a job as Patrick can.

Oddly enough in your “Book” section you only have “Best Karate” by Nakayama (someone that I also met several times) which is a Shotokan book.

From your website:

History of Martial Arts:
Karate is a product of 20th century,
( is it? Gee I thought it was much older than that, but I guess my knowledge doesn’t “scratch the surface of yours”) *snipped*……………………

Chinese families emigrated to Okinawa, introducing Kempo to the Ryukyu Islands. In 1609, the Ryukyu islands were conquered by Japanese warlord Shimazu. Because the Okinawans had refused to help shimazu, he issued strict law prohibiting all weapons and martial arts practice.

(as I stated before….the weapons ban was in place 100 years before the Japanese got there, which has been recorded in Okinawan law books of the time)

Just a little gift for you from my own research:
Relations between Toyotomi Hideyoshi,
the Shimazu Clan and the Ryukyu Kingdom
The Age of Great Trade for the Ryukyu Kingdom came to an end in the 16th century; however, trade with China still remained active. It became economically vital for the Shimazu to allow the Ryukyu Kingdom to continue to exist in name as an independent nation.During this period in Japan, Toyotomi Hideyoshi (one of Japan's three greatest military leaders) unified the whole country and issued an edict requiring other areas of Japan to pay a portion of the military burden. This edict was extended to the then independent nation of the Ryukyu Kingdom via the Shimazu Clan of Satsuma. The demand combined the military burden of the Ryukyus with Satsuma and included the dispatch of an army of 15,000 troops. However, since the Ryukyu Kingdom had no experience in battle, it was exempted from the demand for the troop dispatch and instead was to deliver provisions of rice for 7,000 troops for a period of ten months. Coinciding with this development was the enthronement of a new king in the Ryukyus, King Sho Nei. This increased the economic difficulty of the kingdom due to the requirement they had to welcome the Chinese investiture envoys. The suzerain relationship the Ryukyu Kingdom had with Ming China had been the most important relation for them. The Ryukyu worried that if they acceded to the Japanese demands it would negatively affect their relations with China. They heatedly debated this within the court. Finally, fearful of an impending attack from the Shimazu should the demands be rejected, they agreed to pay half the amount of the military burden.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Well, I have seen Krav Maga and know someone who taught it in the Israeli Army and can tell you it is pretty much crap. I know it has gotten a lot of hype and become the new "buzz word" in the MA world because certain movie stars go off and train with the Israeli Army for a couple of weeks and come back and make a movie but it is still over rated.

That is not a fair statement. KM has its niche as a simple and yet effective self defence skill. It does not equip you to go buttheading with a MA expert, nor to win at Lumpinee Stadium. The majority of the population will never become a first class martial art expert. If KM equips them to at least try to defend themselves on the rare occassion when they need to, it serves its purpose.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by budopunjabi
I havnt told you an ounce of what I know or have done, and in response to you, I dont think your knowledge burries mine, but instead wouldnt scratch the surface.

In Budo

Please do enlighten us

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
That is not a fair statement. KM has its niche as a simple and yet effective self defence skill. It does not equip you to go buttheading with a MA expert, nor to win at Lumpinee Stadium. The majority of the population will never become a first class martial art expert. If KM equips them to at least try to defend themselves on the rare occassion when they need to, it serves its purpose.

I think it is totally fair.
Especially given it’s press coverage as being such a hot sxxt martial art.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by DKI Girl
budopunjabi

Some friendly advice....RyuShiKan thinks he is correct on any topic concerning martial arts....and that no one elses opinion matters. So it's just not worth it to get into an argument with him over opinions or your training versus his training....it's a dead end and will get you no where.

From the first day I posted on this forum he has done nothing but attack my credibility and my insructor. So if you just ignore him like I do then you will find some good people on this forum that you can talk with and learn from.

dki girl

This is not accurate. RyuShiKan is one of many who does not buy into NTKO. It is unfortunate that you get caught in the middle of this NTKO mess. Your instructor puts his credibility at risk himself. From reading the posts, most people wish you would distance yourself from the mess. I don't think people here view you negatively.

RyuShiKan can be "in your face" but he does not cut corner when it comes to factual info.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
This is not accurate. RyuShiKan is one of many who does not buy into NTKO. It is unfortunate that you get caught in the middle of this NTKO mess. Your instructor puts his credibility at risk himself. From reading the posts, most people wish you would distance yourself from the mess. I don't think people here view you negatively.

RyuShiKan can be "in your face" but he does not cut corner when it comes to factual info.

I will be the first one to applaud DKIGirl’s enthusiasm for training.
However, I would caution anyone putting faith in frivolous claims in the Martial Arts and people that can’t/won’t put them to a litmus test of some sort.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

I would say RyuShiKan spares no effort when it comes to battling frivolous claims in the Martial Arts. :asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
I would say RyuShiKan spares no effort when it comes to battling frivolous claims in the Martial Arts. :asian:

I think I actually waste too much time doing it.

 

[chufeng]

Although I've been training for a little while, I think I know too little...

I am frequently amazed at the people (sometimes with "high rank" in other systems) who somehow find me to glean some knowledge of the arts...and am repeatedly disappointed when they leave because what I teach is the basics, over and over and over...and they can't SEE that the art really is THAT simple...

They look for the "incredible" and I only offer the mundane...

They hear of incredible feats...and get confused when I say that the application came from our first form...I don't know if they think I'm pulling the wool over their eyes, or if they thought there was something more to all of this...

I am no different from anyone on this board...I simply train...the secret of the martial arts is to train hard...and be humble...don't look for something "out there." Don't look for the "double-secret technique." Simply look inside...and trust that what you've been given IS enough...what is right in front of you is ALL there is...

...and there ain't no such thing as a "GrandMaster." The few that really deserved that distinction were the most humble of men and the title didn't stick until they were dead...

IMHO
:asian:
chufeng

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by chufeng
Although I've been training for a little while, I think I know too little...

I am frequently amazed at the people (sometimes with "high rank" in other systems) who somehow find me to glean some knowledge of the arts...and am repeatedly disappointed when they leave because what I teach is the basics, over and over and over...and they can't SEE that the art really is THAT simple...

They look for the "incredible" and I only offer the mundane...

Less is more............