Looking at opening a school

[KOKarate]

Starting a school is never easy and very rarely a lucrative deal. I started mine about 10 years ago because I used to be an assistant instructor at a club when I was a third dan and this other guy was a begginer. Anyway years later we’d both left the school for different reasons (no bad feelings from anyone I just moved on as for him he got busy with work) anyway bumped into him years later he asked if I was teaching I said no because I wasn’t active in karate at the time he asked if I could teach him a bit. I said sure because I had nothing better to do so I trained him outside twice a week for months I didn’t charge because frankly I didn’t see the point as I wasn’t paying for anything and any money he’d give wouldn’t do much for me anyway so I figured why bother. Eventually he asked if I could teach his daughter I said sure did that. Winter came around he suggested we rent out a hall. I found one and decided I may as well see if I can get some people in to help with the rent. I can say with certainty I have made no profit from teaching and sometimes I’m lucky to break even but I got a good real job that pays well as does my wife and my kids have moved out so I can afford it. But it’s not an easy job

 

[JowGaWolf]

There's a doctor who explains this well. On a death certificate, there's the cause of death and the things that kill someone. A car crash is never the thing that they die from - it's internal hemmorhage, heart failure, etc. Same goes with COVID. If they die from something that would not have killed them at that time without COVID, then COVID is ruled to be the cause of death. So if someone with asthma dies because COVID makes their asthma deadly, COVID is the cause of that death. This is the same process as is used in cancer deaths (cancer is never the thing that finally kills them - it's some failure caused by the cancer), so is nothing unusual.

I'd be more than a little surprised if there were incidents of accidental death (like car accidents) being labeld COVID. I'd have to see actual evidence to believe that's happening.

I'm glad you said this. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for many people to understand. Asking a simple question could clear it up. "Would the person had died, today, if they didn't have Covid?" if the answer is no, then it's clear that Covid-19 is the deciding factor here. It's the only factor that has changed. If a person has lived 40 years with Asthma and was never in a situation of dying from Asthma then what changed? Being infected with Covid-19 is the new factor that made things worse. If people didn't have Covid-19 then things would have gotten worse, in the manner that it did.

I know this will open a can of worms, but for me it's like saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Replace a gun with a nerf sword and we couldn't produce the same results, even if we were trying to kill someone in self-defense. Which is why we fight wards with things that kill and not with nerf swords.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I can say with certainty I have made no profit from teaching and sometimes I’m lucky to break even but I got a good real job that pays well as does my wife and my kids have moved out so I can afford it. But it’s not an easy job

Martial artists often don't make the best business person. For example, I would teach a martial arts system to someone who didn't have enough money to pay for class. That's a horrible decision if you are trying to make money. If I wanted to make a lot of money with martial arts then I would rather have someone else run the business other than me. When I taught martial arts, the school made profit. I had plans ready to make more profit, but that rubbed the other instructor the wrong way.

The instructor that I partnered with believed that he shouldn't have "chase after students" by doing call backs and follow ups. He felt that if someone really wanted to take Jow Ga Kung fu, then they would show up on on their knees begging. For me I was happy to call people back and follow up. If you email me asking about the school, I would contact you next day and share with you some of the things that went on in the class that day. I would try to give you a sense of how students are treated even though you aren't officially a student yet. The other instructor didn't like that at all.

 

[Flying Crane]

Martial artists often don't make the best business person. For example, I would teach a martial arts system to someone who didn't have enough money to pay for class. That's a horrible decision if you are trying to make money. If I wanted to make a lot of money with martial arts then I would rather have someone else run the business other than me. When I taught martial arts, the school made profit. I had plans ready to make more profit, but that rubbed the other instructor the wrong way.

The instructor that I partnered with believed that he shouldn't have "chase after students" by doing call backs and follow ups. He felt that if someone really wanted to take Jow Ga Kung fu, then they would show up on on their knees begging. For me I was happy to call people back and follow up. If you email me asking about the school, I would contact you next day and share with you some of the things that went on in the class that day. I would try to give you a sense of how students are treated even though you aren't officially a student yet. The other instructor didn't like that at all.

Interesting. What you describe is very very basic courtesy. It isn’t even marketing. I cannot fathom why someone could object to that.

 

[geezer]

Interesting. What you describe is very very basic courtesy. It isn’t even marketing. I cannot fathom why someone could object to that.

Old school Chinese thinking. The student seeks out the instructor. For the instructor to chase the student would be undignified.

....on the other hand, if his students pimped his school to the masses, He could scold them (wink,wink) and save face while still marketing his school. I think that's the compromise I've seen with some of the older Chinese instructors.

 

[Flying Crane]

Old school Chinese thinking. The student seeks out the instructor. For the instructor to chase the student would be undignified.

....on the other hand, if his students pimped his school to the masses, He could scold them (wink,wink) and save face while still marketing his school. I think that's the compromise I've seen with some of the older Chinese instructors.

Ok, but not returning a telephone call or an email, where someone asked for information? That is just shooting yourself in the foot, if you actually want to teach. If you don’t care, and you view having students as an unwelcome obligation, then it’s a viable strategy.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Interesting. What you describe is very very basic courtesy. It isn’t even marketing. I cannot fathom why someone could object to that.

You'll be surprised at how many people get that wrong. Sometimes that authority as an instructor or a teacher goes to people's head. Then that's when their warped sense of how people should come to you and not the other way around. I was gearing the school up to become a big part of the community by doing volunteer work for the community. The goal was to build a strong relationship with the community so that the community would feel good about supporting the school through membership. Real simple, be a value to the community and we'll always have a home. He didn't like that either., but I've known other people who didn't see the value of it as well.

I got the school in a position where we could offer Kung Fu classes through the country Recreation Department. The county would do all of the advertising and would send Kung Fu fliers to all of county's schools. Basically, all we had to do is provide the information and then show up to teach. The owner of the kung fu school was late getting the information to Recreation Department which meant the advertising for us went out late. Then no one signed up, so the owner of the school decided to cancel the class without letting me know (I'm the one who got the Recreation Department interested in our school). So on the last day for registration, people started to call in because they wanted to take the class. Had he just seen it through for better or worse, he would have gotten 10 students at the last minute. But more important. Recreation Departments don't want to work with anyone who doesn't see things through. If you offer something then you show up even if no one else does. This shows them that you are reliable and are willing to stick it out even with things don't look as if they will turn out great. Because he "quit" and didn't see it through. It got the school black listed for the County.

Again. Great kung fu teacher, but horrible business sense. I hope they forget my face and name in the future so I can try to rebuild that bridge.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ok, but not returning a telephone call or an email, where someone asked for information? That is just shooting yourself in the foot, if you actually want to teach. If you don’t care, and you view having students as an unwelcome obligation, then it’s a viable strategy.

The other instructor was just like that. His words. "If they don't show up at the school, then they aren't serious, so I'm not going to reach back out to them." He also didn't like when I got the return calls, where they wanted to speak with me. The only reason I got the return calls is because I responded to their emails lol. Every email that I got he also got, every email that I sent, was also sent to him. He wanted a personal call from people who wanted to learn. Then after the call, he felt that the person should come to the school and not that the instructor should invite them.

90% of the new students that join the school was because my wife an I did outreach. Oh and the sparring videos on the website helped as well. They weren't looking for professional fighter skills. They wanted a school that actually spent time doing sparring that that doesn't look like the point sparring that is was so popular before MMA started whooping up on "Kung Fu Masters".

 

[Poppity]

Thank you everyone for your insights and explanations. I think it's clear that this a going to be a bit of a non profit venture, but it will be doing something I enjoy and can afford so that will be cool.

Out of all ma, wing chun seems to be a hard sell at the moment.


There seems to be a lot of passionate hate towards wing chun, mainly because people go in with unrealistic expectations they'll learn to beat 10 karate guys without taking a single hit.

I am hoping my school might help dispel some of the myths that unmodified wing chun is too deadly for sports (which is why all the people die doing chi sau) or that it is not effective against an MMA fighter (because anyone who has walked through an MMA gym is a world class fighter).

I would like to help reaffirm it's an
effective and broad fighting system.

 

[dvcochran]

Thank you everyone for your insights and explanations. I think it's clear that this a going to be a bit of a non profit venture, but it will be doing something I enjoy and can afford so that will be cool.

Out of all ma, wing chun seems to be a hard sell at the moment.


There seems to be a lot of passionate hate towards wing chun, mainly because people go in with unrealistic expectations they'll learn to beat 10 karate guys without taking a single hit.

I am hoping my school might help dispel some of the myths that unmodified wing chun is too deadly for sports (which is why all the people die doing chi sau) or that it is not effective against an MMA fighter (because anyone who has walked through an MMA gym is a world class fighter).

I would like to help reaffirm it's an
effective and broad fighting system.

Brother, with that attitude I think you are going to do great. All my best with your venture.

 

[JowGaWolf]

There seems to be a lot of passionate hate towards wing chun, mainly because people go in with unrealistic expectations they'll learn to beat 10 karate guys without taking a single hit.

I think you'll be fine as long as you are honest with your potential students. Don't oversell it by making it more than what it is. Keep it down to earth and be honest, and let them know that Movie Kung Fu is not the same a real Kung Fu.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I am hoping my school might help dispel some of the myths that unmodified wing chun is too deadly for sports (which is why all the people die doing chi sau) or that it is not effective against an MMA fighter (because anyone who has walked through an MMA gym is a world class fighter).

I think this is a worthy goal. I know I'm probably bias because I have a similar goal with Jow Ga. For me, the goal helps me keep focus on the important stuff and not to get wrapped up in a lot of the performance or martial arts for health markets.

 

[JKDJade]

Could you meet with small groups in a nearby park where you could have proper distancing between people and not pay rent? Build a body of students that way in an outdoor situation where it is safer.

This is probably your best bet at the moment.

 

[hunschuld]

I admire anyone that can teach for a living. When I taught I did it in my garage at home.

To make it profitable You need a well equipped location, teach afternoon children's classes and offer private and semi private lessons for business people and other arts unless you are teaching BJJ/MMA those schools do well on their own. Morning classes and kick boxing style workout class should also be included. If I were to open a school I would do a wing chun kickboxing workout class using simple movements

 

[Poppity]

I admire anyone that can teach for a living. When I taught I did it in my garage at home.

To make it profitable You need a well equipped location, teach afternoon children's classes and offer private and semi private lessons for business people and other arts unless you are teaching BJJ/MMA those schools do well on their own. Morning classes and kick boxing style workout class should also be included. If I were to open a school I would do a wing chun kickboxing workout class using simple movements

Thank you so much for the advice. Still in the process of drawing up the business plan and potential marketing avenues.

It's funny the swells and wanes of fashions in the martial world, in the 60s karate, 70s Kung Fu, 80s ninjitsu, 90s kick boxing in the 2000s bjj and from 2010 the nebulous term MMA.

Pretty daft to be opening a non fashionable school but hey, better to have tried and something, something.. cheers though.