Lone wing chun practitioners need help!!!

[mook jong man]

Just curious ... can you explain the reasoning behind your Tan Sao being at such extreme angle?

He's training to fight Kareem Abdul Jabbar. :lol:

 

[OzPaul]

Kareem could play ball... Sydney Kings suck balls...... Sorry Mook!

 

[mook jong man]

Kareem could play ball... Sydney Kings suck balls...... Sorry Mook!

I wouldn't know mate , I prefer to watch the netball . :wink:

 

[OzPaul]

I wouldn't know mate , I prefer to watch the netball . :wink:

Made my day/night!

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Just curious ... can you explain the reasoning behind your Tan Sao being at such extreme angle?

He's training to fight Kareem Abdul Jabbar. :lol:

hahaha , well sorta , i always imagine my opp to be taller than me and i haven't found any problems adjusting the opps height in my mind or physically , would there be a problem with a high tan?

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

I just watched your video , get that thumb tucked in mate or it's liable to get broken by the first punch that happens to come down your centreline.

Just in solo practice drive them out at about solar plexus height , but realise that in actual application depending on the height of the opponent you will probably have to do it higher.

But overall not too shabby for a bloke that's learning off videos , I've certainly seen worse , and they were in a school
The applications of Tan Sau are endless , I'm sure there's quite a few I haven't seen before.

In our lineage they are mainly used to redirect a straight punch , one example is we might intercept on the outside of his wrist with the pinky side of our Tan Sau and strike straight through with our fingers to his throat , or curl the fingers up and change it to a punch , or my favourite a spade hand palm strike to the neck.

But if the position of the incoming punch dictates then we can just as easily go up the inside and strike from there.

At the end of the day it is just a tool to redirect force and at the same time invade the space of the opponent , once it has done it's job you can put whatever strike on the end of it that your little heart desires.

Oh Don't overestimate me , i'm just a student who wants to learn , Thanks for the explanation Mr Mook truly when i thought about it, it was shocking how many things could be done with a tan sau.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Secondly the tan sau technique that Mr.Z mentioned Well i did the tan sau and i read up a little on applications , on how it can be used to intercept and then turned into an attack ...like a palm strike / punch / chop is there anything i'm missing about the tan sau? Also i made a video of it but i forgot to record while doing it on my mook jong... anyway here's the link.

Okay, let's fix a couple of things.

First, while doing the exercise, SLOW DOWN! Do not do it fast. The way you were doing it initially is okay. Speed is not the issue, correct execution of the hand position is the most important part. Speed comes later, after you have done thousands of repetitions of the movement and it is almost second nature.

Second, when performing tan sao, drive or push the motion with your elbow, not with your hand. The fingers should be straight, but not rigid, with the thumb up against the side of the hand.

Third, some lineages bend the wrist and lay the hand flat, like what you have illustrated. I (we) do not. There are several different reasons, but the main one is so the energy flowing from the elbow to the finger tips has a straight line of travel. That also allows you to push the position with your elbow and not pull it along with your hand. So straighten the wrist so the energy will flow down (up) the arm to the hand and has a straight path out the finger tips. However, the hand should be relaxed.

Fourth, once you have finished the hand position, with your fingers together but not forced, the centerline should run down through your middle finger, through the middle of your wrist, with it visually skimming along the edge of the elbow. If not, then you need to correct this. You can also check this by taking a stick, or any long, straight, object of about 3 feet long, place it on the center of your chest, making sure it travels straight forward and resting the other end on your middle finger. Looking down the stick, imagining it as your centerline, you should see that it covers your middle finger, the center of your wrist, and the inside edge of your elbow visually is in line with the centerline.

Fifth, the height of the tan sao hand should be as follows: looking at yourself face to face in a mirror, the finger tips should be no higher than your upper lip, the bottom of your elbow no further down than your diaphram (covering your diaphram to protect it), as you maintain the immoveable elbow position. So the tan sao (forearm with hand) should be angling upward towards your opponents face. When looking at your image in the mirror, your hand should block the view of your lips and chin. This is important, because when using it on an opponeent, it should do the same thing when face to face to them, block your view of their lips and chin. In that respect, the height of a tan sao adapts and changes with the height of your opponent.

So you should do this exercise in front of a mirror to make sure the movements are executed correctly, ie, correct height, angled upwards, fingers, hands, forearms in line with the center line.

Don't worry about using the tan or trying to apply it as of yet. It is important to push the movement with your elbow so when it actually makes contact with an opponent, the motion will continue as needed to the immoveable elbow position (but don jarn), instead of stopping with any contact.

Work on that, for a couple of days, then video it and submit it again and lets see how it goes.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Okay, let's fix a couple of things.

First, while doing the exercise, SLOW DOWN! Do not do it fast. The way you were doing it initially is okay. Speed is not the issue, correct execution of the hand position is the most important part. Speed comes later, after you have done thousands of repetitions of the movement and it is almost second nature.

Second, when performing tan sao, drive or push the motion with your elbow, not with your hand. The fingers should be straight, but not rigid, with the thumb up against the side of the hand.

Third, some lineages bend the wrist and lay the hand flat, like what you have illustrated. I (we) do not. There are several different reasons, but the main one is so the energy flowing from the elbow to the finger tips has a straight line of travel. That also allows you to push the position with your elbow and not pull it along with your hand. So straighten the wrist so the energy will flow down (up) the arm to the hand and has a straight path out the finger tips. However, the hand should be relaxed.

Fourth, once you have finished the hand position, with your fingers together but not forced, the centerline should run down through your middle finger, through the middle of your wrist, with it visually skimming along the edge of the elbow. If not, then you need to correct this. You can also check this by taking a stick, or any long, straight, object of about 3 feet long, place it on the center of your chest, making sure it travels straight forward and resting the other end on your middle finger. Looking down the stick, imagining it as your centerline, you should see that it covers your middle finger, the center of your wrist, and the inside edge of your elbow visually is in line with the centerline.

Fifth, the height of the tan sao hand should be as follows: looking at yourself face to face in a mirror, the finger tips should be no higher than your upper lip, the bottom of your elbow no further down than your diaphram (covering your diaphram to protect it), as you maintain the immoveable elbow position. So the tan sao (forearm with hand) should be angling upward towards your opponents face. When looking at your image in the mirror, your hand should block the view of your lips and chin. This is important, because when using it on an opponeent, it should do the same thing when face to face to them, block your view of their lips and chin. In that respect, the height of a tan sao adapts and changes with the height of your opponent.

So you should do this exercise in front of a mirror to make sure the movements are executed correctly, ie, correct height, angled upwards, fingers, hands, forearms in line with the center line.

Don't worry about using the tan or trying to apply it as of yet. It is important to push the movement with your elbow so when it actually makes contact with an opponent, the motion will continue as needed to the immoveable elbow position (but don jarn), instead of stopping with any contact.

Work on that, for a couple of days, then video it and submit it again and lets see how it goes.

Alright , well the video was made after a Long WC practice session and i guess i was already warmed up and got a little carried away in regards to the speed of the excercise , Alright Mr Z , got it , thanks for the valued insight gonna start working on it.

 

[mook jong man]

hahaha , well sorta , i always imagine my opp to be taller than me and i haven't found any problems adjusting the opps height in my mind or physically , would there be a problem with a high tan?

Not really but once it start's getting too high then I would prefer to use what we call a Chum kiu parry because it pulls the opponents head straight down into my strike.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Not really but once it start's getting too high then I would prefer to use what we call a Chum kiu parry because it pulls the opponents head straight down into my strike.

Oh i have a general idea of that chum kiu motion you are referring to but i'm guessin its alot like the tan , Guess i should keep it low.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Sorry for the double post... I can't make the stupid smileys work... and its frustrating ... need a double doobie to understnad this complex thing you people call smileys. . haha

 

[wtxs]

Zepeda, hope you don't mind me rearrange some of your important points.

When performing tan sao, drive or push the motion with your elbow, not with your hand. The fingers should be straight, but not rigid, with the thumb up against the side of the hand.

Some lineages bend the wrist and lay the hand flat, like what you have illustrated. I (we) do not. There are several different reasons, but the main one is so the energy flowing from the elbow to the finger tips has a straight line of travel. That also allows you to push the position with your elbow and not pull it along with your hand. So straighten the wrist so the energy will flow down (up) the arm to the hand and has a straight path out the finger tips. However, the hand should be relaxed.

The height of a tan sao adapts and changes with the height of your opponent. So you should do this exercise in front of a mirror to make sure the movements are executed correctly, ie, correct height, angled upwards, fingers, hands, forearms in line with the center line.

Also when performing tan sao, drive or push the motion with your elbow - some call it an DRILLING motion, or like an cork screw, it's the combination of the forward and rotational force that caused that slight angular deflection of the opposing arm.

As been pointed out many times, that unprotected thumb will get you.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Yeah the point about the thumb was really important ofcourse and a change has been duly made , while yesterday's practice went smoothly with the changes mentioned ... i've been succesful at driving with the elbow and keeping a straight relaxed wrist and yes i do notice a sort of drilling motion. Thankyou for the feedback wtxs.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Zepeda, hope you don't mind me rearrange some of your important points.

No, I don't mind you re-arranging some of the points.

Also when performing tan sao, drive or push the motion with your elbow - some call it an DRILLING motion, or like an cork screw, it's the combination of the forward and rotational force that caused that slight angular deflection of the opposing arm.

As been pointed out many times, that unprotected thumb will get you.

The way Lambo is doing the tan sao drill at this moment, the drilling motion is not being addressed for a reason. The idea here is to focus on the push with the elbow, not so much the drilling or corkscrewing. After I see he is pushing, then he will be requested to bring the returning hand into a wu sao position and then start the drilling. Thus, when he does tan sao in the form, he will be asked to focus on the corkscrewing and slight upward arc going forward when performing tan sao.

In tan sao, there are 3 motions involved. . . . forward push of the arm, twisting or corkscrewing of the arm, and a slight upward arc as the arm (tan) comes forward to disperse from the side chambered position. I like to break it down to all 3 motions separately and add them together in a specific order. When all 3 motions are taught at the same time, I find students tend to not get it correct, lose or forget one of the motions, or do not maintain the tan sao in the centerline position.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

No, I don't mind you re-arranging some of the points.



The way Lambo is doing the tan sao drill at this moment, the drilling motion is not being addressed for a reason. The idea here is to focus on the push with the elbow, not so much the drilling or corkscrewing. After I see he is pushing, then he will be requested to bring the returning hand into a wu sao position and then start the drilling. Thus, when he does tan sao in the form, he will be asked to focus on the corkscrewing and slight upward arc going forward when performing tan sao.

In tan sao, there are 3 motions involved. . . . forward push of the arm, twisting or corkscrewing of the arm, and a slight upward arc as the arm (tan) comes forward to disperse from the side chambered position. I like to break it down to all 3 motions separately and add them together in a specific order. When all 3 motions are taught at the same time, I find students tend to not get it correct, lose or forget one of the motions, or do not maintain the tan sao in the centerline position.

Thanks for that , i'm reading this from work and well i've seen busier days , anywho i've had quite a lot of spare time today so i'm doing the thing i enjoy most and there is a very convenient mirror here that i've been standing infront of implementing everything that you mentioned , so far i think i've made some progress regerding my tan sau , well it another four hours of work for me since it looks like things are getting busy again , going to make a video after my nightly WC session until then i have to find a shirt thats less wet haha ... See you guys tonight , Much respect. *Bow*

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

The tan sao second practice session, couldn't post a video last night so i recorded after my practice session in the morning today ... Well anyway here it is.

 

[bully]

In my novice opinion they look a little high and the angle of your forearm is too steep.

However, lineages do things in different ways so I will let the experts offer their advice.

I laughed when you sorted your hair out after taking your cap off:uhyeah:

Again kudos to you for posting vids on here, takes some balls to have it critiqued. I am far too shy at the mo but as I have said maybe in the future.

 

[zepedawingchun]

The tan sao second practice session, couldn't post a video last night so i recorded after my practice session in the morning today ... Well anyway here it is.

Okay Haris Lamboo Faisal, again do it a little bit slower. The speed your using would be for executing the tan, but you are trying to learn the proper position when executing first. Focus on the hand position first, learn it and understand it.

The tan sao is a bit too high, so drop it maybe a little bit. Of course, I think the height of the camera recording (held) may have a little bit to do with it too. Also, when replacing one tan sao with another, make the retracting hand slide completely UNDER the hand coming forward. Or put abother way, let the hand coming forward travel over the retracting hand. The returning hand is defending the space (blocking any entry from your opponent) below your tan sao. The hand (arm) coming forward always takes presidence (command) over the retracting hand. In the video, you're moving your hand side to side and it should be over one another. It follows the same motion you use when doing your punch . . . . straight line forward, semi circular motion retracting.

 

[mook jong man]

The tan sao second practice session, couldn't post a video last night so i recorded after my practice session in the morning today ... Well anyway here it is.

Yeah , they are too high mate.
Instead of driving your force out , you are driving your force up.
Think of it as a piercing movement , just pierce forward from the elbow.

 

[cwk]

Also, try to roll your shoulder back naturally in it's socket as you push from the elbow out. Doing this should help with correct alignment.