lok sau

[brocklee]

I would like to say that look-sau can't be a static drill because one has to move in order to roll. However, if you mean that we should practice look-sau in a 'stationary' position, then I feel this is very 'low level' thinking. Fighting is 'dynamic'. Even when we are standing, we are constantly adjusting, so why would our training be 'static'?

Without movement, we are losing the opportunity to adjust our footwork, our ability to shong-ma, tui-ma, juen-ma, etc., etc.

What a waste of opportunity.

But...each to their own.

Or, perhaps you could try practising look-sau with motion\footwork, and let me know how you get on. Your hands are so much more powerful with the body 'behind' it.

Right again. One thing that has to be remembered when on the forums is that everyone is at a different level. This should be respected because we've all been there.

 

[graychuan]

This is Chi Sao play from the our Louisville Kentucky seminar this past weekend.

 

[KamonGuy2]

I would like to say that look-sau can't be a static drill because one has to move in order to roll. However, if you mean that we should practice look-sau in a 'stationary' position, then I feel this is very 'low level' thinking. Fighting is 'dynamic'. Even when we are standing, we are constantly adjusting, so why would our training be 'static'?.

Oh my word....
Your quote of 'low level thinking' seems to have mirrored back on your self here. Static drills are ones that are designed to train basic movements in a repetitive fashion
There should be no deviation of the drill itself.
Chi sao is different because anything can happen (ie you can end up in muen sao to muen sao, or with underhooks)

If you are playing lok sao with various switches (ie attempting to hit your opponent through the fook sao guard) then it is no longer lok sao

It is like claiming that a punch that turns into a fut sao at the last second is still a punch

Traditional lok sao is done in a stationary position, but can be evolved to include wing chun footwork
Indeed at Kamon, we include a drill that includes switching between dan chi sao and lok sao

Without movement, we are losing the opportunity to adjust our footwork, our ability to shong-ma, tui-ma, juen-ma, etc., etc.

What a waste of opportunity.

But...each to their own.

Or, perhaps you could try practising look-sau with motion\footwork, and let me know how you get on. Your hands are so much more powerful with the body 'behind' it.

As stated before, we have done that

 

[KamonGuy2]

Kamon guy sez:

First off, I presume that you are not suggesting Poon sao and lok sao are the same thing. Your statement 'look sao or poon sao' seems to read that the drills are the same

csk: Perhaps you care to tell us the fundamental differences?

Don't you know???
Maybe you should have a look at youtube as there are countless videos showing the differences, both in movement and structure

Also, 'beating' a person in lok sao is a bad phrase to use
Look sao (lok sao) is a static drill, meaning that at basic level you are not looking to hit your opponent. You are merely developing shapes

csk: When I say 'beat' I mean to nullify the opponent's moves, to control his intentions. You don't need to hit anyone in order to control them.

That wasn't the point. It was the use of the word 'beat'. Do you seriously care whether you 'win' against your opponent
Chi sao should be a drill, where sometimes you get into positions of contriol and sometimes your opponent does. You will roll with students of all levels and it doesn't really matter if you beat them o rnot, as long as you are learning new techniques

Too many people think that chi sao is a fight or a realistic tool. It is not. It is building stick and sensitivity and the ability to mould round shapes. It does not matter to me that much if someone gets a hit through my shapes - in a fight, that will often happen. It is what you do about it afterwards

csk: If chisau isn't a realistic tool -- in the sense, you won't be using it -- then why train it at all? Are you saying bong, tan, fook, wu aren't realistic? You can't use those 'shapes' in combat?

I wasn't talking about the shapes I was talking about the drill
As stated you will use the elements of sensitivity and stick. You will of course use one of the shapes. But you will not roll hands with a person!!!

You train shapes otherways - doing them in drilled combinations with huen bo for example. Chi sao is there to help build sensitivity and stick.
You are not training a realsitic fight scenario

I expect like many, you hit a person in chi sao and think that is the end and 'reset' your shapes (ie start again) as opposed to carrying on

csk: Your expectation is presumptous. Besides, this topic is about look-sau, not 'gwoh-sau'

You turned the topic into chi sao and look sao
Chi sao includes free attack, or gwoh sao