Lessons to learn...

[jks9199]

The Zimmerman trial is over; the verdict is in.

Brian Vancise pointed out that there are some very important lessons to learn; let's take some time and look at, from a self-defense point of view. For the moment, let's leave the race issue out of it.

You're out and about, and as you return home, you observe someone in your neighborhood. You don't recognize them, and they seem, by dress and actions, not to fit into the neighborhood. What should you do?

Now let's add a wrinkle -- you're out on foot, maybe because you walked to the market, maybe just out for an after-dinner perambulation... same scenario, otherwise. You see someone whose behavior doesn't fit the community. Again -- what do you do?

Last wrinkle: you end up in a confrontation. Keep it simple; the classic "what are you looking at?" type of thing. How do you handle it?

 

[Steve]

The Zimmerman trial is over; the verdict is in.

Brian Vancise pointed out that there are some very important lessons to learn; let's take some time and look at, from a self-defense point of view. For the moment, let's leave the race issue out of it.

You're out and about, and as you return home, you observe someone in your neighborhood. You don't recognize them, and they seem, by dress and actions, not to fit into the neighborhood. What should you do?

Now let's add a wrinkle -- you're out on foot, maybe because you walked to the market, maybe just out for an after-dinner perambulation... same scenario, otherwise. You see someone whose behavior doesn't fit the community. Again -- what do you do?

Last wrinkle: you end up in a confrontation. Keep it simple; the classic "what are you looking at?" type of thing. How do you handle it?

For me, it would really depend on WHAT the person was doing and whether it really seemed criminal in nature. If it does, I'd call the cops and stay well clear of them. If they know I'm following, I'd also knock on a few doors and get a couple of the neighbors out there with me.

 

[jks9199]

For me, it would really depend on WHAT the person was doing and whether it really seemed criminal in nature. If it does, I'd call the cops and stay well clear of them. If they know I'm following, I'd also knock on a few doors and get a couple of the neighbors out there with me.

That's an interesting idea, and I think it's the first time I've seen someone make that suggestion -- to get some of the neighbors out there with you. I see pros & cons -- and a lot depends on the neighborhood. My brother lives in a tight-knit little loop that regularly gets together or just sits down for drinks together. That also describes the neighborhood we grew up in reasonably well. I can still name the families for about 2 or 3 blocks around growing up easily... Me? I know a bunch of my neighbors by sight, have spoken to some of them. A handful know what I do for a living. (OK, that's probably wishful thinking, because I do carry uniforms in regularly, and have even left home in uniform occasionally.) There are only a couple I've really talked with, and even then, it wasn't a lot. Why the difference? Well, it doesn't help that I'm definitely an introvert, while my brother is definitely an extrovert. The families in his neighborhood also all have kids in the same age range, and there's a lot of ethnic overlap. My neighborhood is a lot more diverse, and there are many people who don't share a language in common. There's a wider range where I live. But... I bet he could knock on a door and have someone he knows. Me? Go further than the immediate handful of houses, and a lot of them wouldn't know who I was. And that might shape whether I'd want to knock on their door... I'm not saying it's a bad idea, and it's definitely something to think about.

 

[chinto]

I would have to make that call depending on what the individual does. if its "what are you looking at?" move on and call the cops... if it becomes more aggressive, then I have to make a threat assessment as to is it safe to back away? or will that just aggravate the situation? where I live, if the latter then i would be looking at is this a deadly threat or not. if so I would prepare to deal with that level of threat, on the other hand if it is not a situation of aggravation of the situation I would just walk on and call the cops. now if he is breaking into a neighbors house, that is very different. if its my house its extremely serious. but again I know my states laws. the question is DO YOU KNOW YOUR STATES LAWS ON FORCE and things?

 

[Cyriacus]

If someones out of place in the area thats not my problem. If it seems a little more serious, i can always be a witness when the police come doorknocking.

The correct response, for me, to what are you looking at will vary. In this example, "sorry, i just moved here, ah, i was wondering if you knew where the nearest 7/11 is?" comes to mind. I guess the hope is that he might feel like you were looking at him trying to work up the courage to approach that mean looking guy (his view, not necessarily mine), and its not entirely submissive. Its not assertive, either. Just casual. Let them escalate it if they want to, dont play their game. Doing something conversational with ones hands is good too. Such as, say, scratching your chin gently.

 

[lklawson]

The Zimmerman trial is over; the verdict is in.

Brian Vancise pointed out that there are some very important lessons to learn; let's take some time and look at, from a self-defense point of view. For the moment, let's leave the race issue out of it.

You're out and about, and as you return home, you observe someone in your neighborhood. You don't recognize them, and they seem, by dress and actions, not to fit into the neighborhood. What should you do?

Now let's add a wrinkle -- you're out on foot, maybe because you walked to the market, maybe just out for an after-dinner perambulation... same scenario, otherwise. You see someone whose behavior doesn't fit the community. Again -- what do you do?

Last wrinkle: you end up in a confrontation. Keep it simple; the classic "what are you looking at?" type of thing. How do you handle it?

Here's another one:

You're out and about, walking home and you notice someone following you. You don't recognize them and it feels kinda creepy to you but he is, otherwise, not apparently threatening you.

Should you
A) Keep high awareness and stay in Condition Yellow
B) Try to get to a more public and less isolated area
C) Use your cell phone to call the police
D) Politely ask the person why he's following you
E) Assertively tell the person to stop following you
F) Assault the person because he most likely is planning something very bad

The point is, everyone keeps looking at this from Zimmerman's perspective and asking what did Zimmerman do wrong and what "lessons" we can learn from that.

No one seems to be asking the same of Martin's perspective.

But I am, right now. What lessons can you learn from Martin?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Carol]

Here's another one:

You're out and about, walking home and you notice someone following you. You don't recognize them and it feels kinda creepy to you but he is, otherwise, not apparently threatening you.

Should you
A) Keep high awareness and stay in Condition Yellow
B) Try to get to a more public and less isolated area
C) Use your cell phone to call the police
D) Politely ask the person why he's following you
E) Assertively tell the person to stop following you
F) Assault the person because he most likely is planning something very bad

The point is, everyone keeps looking at this from Zimmerman's perspective and asking what did Zimmerman do wrong and what "lessons" we can learn from that.

No one seems to be asking the same of Martin's perspective.

But I am, right now. What lessons can you learn from Martin?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

If it were me, I would do at least A and probably B. I'm very protective of my personal privacy...I don't even have my home address on my driver's license or car registration. So if I think someone is following me, I would not keep walking home -- I'm not about to reveal where I live to that person.

I doubt I'd directly interact with the person unless I had to. If I had to, I would be polite, but firm. I would likely have my cell phone in my hand. I might call the police if I was being followed by another pedestrian. In a situation where I'm walking home and someone is following me in a vehicle, I would be more likely to call the police. As a woman, I'm well aware of what being captured and driven off someplace could mean.

I definitely would not assault the person unless the situation escalated to something worse.

 

[Steve]

Kirk,

Were I being followed, I would definitely stay as much in a well lit area as possible. I'd also try to find people. As Carol said, I would likely not go home and for the same reasons.

If it is VERY, VERY clear that the person is following me and not just coincidentally going the same direction, I'd call 911.

I don't generally like it when people are behind me anyway, so, if possible, I'll stop and let the person pass. I will generally pull out my phone and fiddle with it until the person walks by.

Many years ago, I lived in Seattle. I was flirting with a girl on the bus, just a few innocent remarks back and forth. Then she got up to get off the bus. I was distracted, and then at the last minute I realized, "Oh crap. That's my stop, too." So, I jumped up and hopped off the bus. Well, then she was about 10 feet in front of me and walking the same direction I was. She turned another corner, and so did I and then I noticed she immediately went on high alert. Her body language changed completely and I realized I was, through no fault of my own, creeping this poor woman out. So, at the next intersection, she went straight and I turned, even though it took me blocks out of my way.

Point is, people aren't completely oblivious. There's a point where a person who is walking along realizes, "Man, I bet that person thinks I'm following her/him."

 

[jks9199]

When I was a kid, my mom, with NO martial arts or serious self defence training, shared a story and suggestion for dealing with someone being followed. She and a friend (possibly my aunt; don't remember for sure) were out walking, and someone began following them enough to scare them. They simply walked up to a house, like it was their own, and it was enough to deter the person. Not a bad idea -- though, again, it depends a little bit on the neighborhood. I don't think I'd quite pull it off in the Anacostia neighborhood of DC, for example.

Something I've told people often is to go somewhere like a police station or fire house. Both places often have someone around, and means to get more help, fast.

 

[oftheherd1]

The Zimmerman trial is over; the verdict is in.

Brian Vancise pointed out that there are some very important lessons to learn; let's take some time and look at, from a self-defense point of view. For the moment, let's leave the race issue out of it.

You're out and about, and as you return home, you observe someone in your neighborhood. You don't recognize them, and they seem, by dress and actions, not to fit into the neighborhood. What should you do?

Now let's add a wrinkle -- you're out on foot, maybe because you walked to the market, maybe just out for an after-dinner perambulation... same scenario, otherwise. You see someone whose behavior doesn't fit the community. Again -- what do you do?

Last wrinkle: you end up in a confrontation. Keep it simple; the classic "what are you looking at?" type of thing. How do you handle it?

I would not confront them, nor if possible, make it obvious I was interested in them. I am not now a policeman nor a neighborhood watch person, but have been both. Zimmerman may have felt he had a duty to get involved to an extent as he was a neighborhood watch person. I would get a good enough look to be able to describe the person if needed, and if I was really concerned about their motives, I would call the police. In the first scenario, I would probably keep a good distance and attempt to make myself something other than a person of interest to the person. In the second Scenario, I would attempt to just get inside my house.

As to the "What are you looking at?" scenario, there are too many variables to that to say anything more than I would try to de-escalate the situation and move away from the person. Then I might or might not call the police, depending on what I thought the person's other immediate motives might be.

EDIT: I meant to comment on your relating how your neighborhood was. If a person doesn't live in the DC suburbs, it is difficult to understand the dynamics of most neighborhoods. Especially if you live as I do, some 30 miles by road from where I work. By the time most people get home, all you want to do is crib out. Interacting with neighbors is not usually how you want to unwind. Family, TV, hobbies; that is they usual order of events. Then sleep so you can get up early and start all over again.

 

[oftheherd1]

Here's another one:

You're out and about, walking home and you notice someone following you. You don't recognize them and it feels kinda creepy to you but he is, otherwise, not apparently threatening you.

Should you
A) Keep high awareness and stay in Condition Yellow
B) Try to get to a more public and less isolated area
C) Use your cell phone to call the police
D) Politely ask the person why he's following you
E) Assertively tell the person to stop following you
F) Assault the person because he most likely is planning something very bad

The point is, everyone keeps looking at this from Zimmerman's perspective and asking what did Zimmerman do wrong and what "lessons" we can learn from that.

No one seems to be asking the same of Martin's perspective.

But I am, right now. What lessons can you learn from Martin?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

First A, then if I felt more more threatened and it was available, B. If necessary in my opinion, I would exercise C. To me, D, E, and F invite problems, which I would prefer to avoid. Oh, along with A, I would be prepared to exercise F, or G, or H; look for someone else to approach to make it two to confront it that was the person's intent, run like crazy, or defend myself to the full extent I was capable.