Pit-Bull dilemma??

[Hand Sword]

Great point! Dogs will definitely pick up on fear and will become more agressive. A sense of confidence will aid you greatly against dogs or human attackers.

 

[JamesDraegun]

All these are good points as well, as its good know that you must not only watch your surroundings, but also be aware that animals (especially dogs) pick up more on emotion than words and looks.

I'm in a pit-bull dilema myself it seems. I visit my good friend about once a week (since we've moved away from her), and have seen her neighborhood go downhill (with the worst being farther down into the culdasac), though not too bad. Across from her house a couple have moved in about 4 months ago. They had one child, one chocolate labrador, and one half-breed female pitbull (the other half I believe was lab as well). And while the dog has never attacked anyone, it does show itself to be a little aggressive.
One time, my friend was carrying cardboard to the couple's place (they needed some for the new litter of pups the pitbull had just had, which made me think this is the reason for the pit’s anger to any strangers, but the pups were well inside, and the pit has always been mean), and i was carrying some too.
As we got close to the house (the couple and the dogs were outside, unleashed, as are all the pets in this neighborhood are), the pitbull and the lab came over to sniff us. The lab was a good happy dog, and nearly made me fall when it jumped up to lick my face. The pitbull, though, didn’t like me so much. I stopped to let it sniff my hand, and didn’t have any fear in me at all, just gave the feeling of reassuring. The pit smelled my hand, backed off, then just looked at me. I thought it was saying: “You’re okay”, but as I got closer to the house, the dog began to bark a little at me. We stopped halfway up the driveway to put down the cardboard down, and the pit started barking a lot more. The owners at first just said calmly “quiet”, but they didn’t realize too much it wasn’t working. The pit soon started growling at me, so I held on to the cardboard, and turned around to it.
That’s when it made what looked like an attempt to rush at me, so put the cardboard in front of me, and made a step forward, and put the meanest face I could on my face. The pit then hesitated for a second, and it probably still would’ve attacked had the owners not came over, grab it, and put it inside.

Now, that dog has attacked another dog before, and I’m worried it might progress to attacking a person next. The couple that live there are nice, but it looks like they don’t realize that the pit is aggressive as they thought. Of course, the pit might just get used to me and calm down but even if it does, it could just as well attack another innocent stranger….A question: would pulling on the ears of a big eared dog do anything, and/or slapping the ear of an open eared dog have the same effect it would on a human (which, if you put enough force and cup your hand, you can put massive pressure on the person’s eardrum, and cause enough pain to stop anyone of any size)?

Now, I’m going to try to be the pit’s friend first, but this is just in case that doesn’t work and/or it attacks anyhow.

 

[TonyMac]

Lots of good stuff said here. Never met a mean pit bull. Have only been bit by a shelty and a skiperke. Don't put off vibes.

 

[Wing Chun Dummy]

This may be out of the box, but its a concern none-the-less, and maybe others here have asked themselves the same question:

"How do you defend yourself against a pit-bull"?
My neighborhood is really going down hill, and for whatever reason, it seems as this trend grows, so does the presence of 'the new neighbors' owning pit-bulls.:idunno:

I've been confronted 2X with these type dogs(in the past), and it wasn't a pleasant experience- but I suffered no harm either time(very very lucky for myself). I've no doubt if there had been an actual attack, I'd have been toast.
So I beckon, what resource(when you've no weapon to help you), would you utilize?

Kick it hard in the face, stamp hard on the nose, eyes and top of head. If all else fails, climb a tree or something.

Generally don't go around picking fights with them though.

 

[Drac]

Like, a Pit has that 1,800 lb. jaw pressure, the 'bus proof' skull, musculature that would please Vince McMahon and the W.W.F., etc

Recently heard from a LEO brother that was charged by an angry Pit and he had to put it down..I won't tell you how many shots he discharged before it dropped..

Mike Tyson at age 22(with the glare in his eye).

That would scare me too...LOL

 

[Stealth]

I'll just say in the first case, I tried to befriend this pit, and although I was frighened, for whatever reason, this dog(after running directly at me from across the street), seemed more like he needed a friend possibly- followed me for 3 blocks and ran off.
The 2nd time, just the grace from above- I'm too embarrassed to tell you what I thought would work; but, these dogs dont care much about human psychology to say the least.

I live in a *Very* bad neighborhood... Many of the local "Distributors" own Pits. There are probably about 12 in between the 3 apartment buildings on my side of the complex. I have never had ANY problems with ANY of them. If you don't act scared they *typically* won't act aggressive. One of them came at me barking and acting like it was going to attack, I simply yelled at it in a very loud and deep voice to "BACK UP" It knew I was the boss... If you act scared and run it will feel that it is dominate.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Shoot it.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Pits are not invincible; it drives me nuts to read some of the fear-based crap that people have around dogs. If you're in the martial arts, hopefully (again, hopefully) you will have learned a couple strikes and kicks.

If a dog attacks you, BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF IT!!!! Pick it up, slam it down, and stomp the hell out if it. Stick your fingers knuckle-deep into it's eye sockets. Grab the windpipe like a broom stick, squeeze as hard as you can, and shake the heck out of the thing by this death grip YOU NOW HAVE ON IT!!!

I've had many altercations with puffed up pooches, and come out of all of them on top (even posted a few here on MT, on this very subject). Including pits, dobies, mastiffs, rotties, shepards...you can break their ribs, punch them in the throat repeatedly, place them in choke holds and steal their life if you like. You do not have to walk in fear. QUIT IT! Defense starts as an attitude, first...that the predator attacking you has just made the mistake of starting in on a bigger, badder predator. Pitbull on, say, an 800 pound lion? 1200 pound tiger? They don't know you're not, until you let them.

I love dogs, and refuse to be afraid of them (have 4 now, along with 3 parrots and a rat). Most every pit I've met has been an adorable sloppy-kissing sweetheart, and they typically have silly, happy, playful personalities if you give them half a chance. For the few who have had the joy of life abused out of them by jackhole owners, just remember your basics.

And remember attitude...when you're at the top of the food chain, everything else is just uncooked lunch.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Ceicei]

Yes, even animals have their weak points anatomically. People tend to forget that and focus too much on the teeth and legs....

- Ceicei

 

[Wing Chun Dummy]

but animals are true to their nature. not slowed down by knowledge, their reactions are instant.

poke the pit bull in the eyes? i would expect to lose my hand. pick it up? with full body armour, maybe!

kick it with the hardest part of ur shoe! pick something else up and defend yourself like ur serious.

 

[fireman00]

I will start my response with this:

As to a self-defense plan:

1. In the immediate, PEPPER SPRAY is your best friend against almost any dog. Pepper spray ruins the motivation of dogs to hurt you. This will work almost everytime; I only say almost as a disclaimer, but I haven't heard of it NOT working (unless the dog is rabid or drug induced).

Good luck; with some common sense you shouldn't need it!

Paul Janulis

I own three dogs, 95lb (male) 90lb (female) and 57 lbs (female) the two females have had 4 blood letting fights over the a three 3 year period over minor issues; the last two times I've tried pepper spray (First Defense® MK4 Police Size 10% Pepper Spray from GALLS.COM). The adrenaline rush allowed both dogs to continue their death grip on each other's throat for almost a full minute - this was after I emptied a 3oz container in their faces. After the minute was up the dogs finally loosened their grip and I could get them apart. In the meantime, I was coughing, tearing up and 'bout ready to vomit while the dogs were still hanging on to one another.

I would be VERY leery in making pepper spray my first choice, not to say that I wouldn't use it but its not the end all. I would get on top of a car, up a tree, fence, ANYTHING at least 3 feet off the ground that a dog would be hard pressed to climb.

If there was nothing available I'd try to get something between me and the dog, a lawn chair, garbage can lid, a kid's trike/ bike or a stoller.

If that failed I'd work on the snout and eyes. Although as has been mentioned by other folks, once certain breeds latch on to a limb its VERY hard to get them to off.


Side note: I've learned that keeping the females in separate parts of the house at night has resolved their "issue" God knows what it was, and there hasn't been any fighting in over a year.

 

[Paul B]

That isn't an uncommon situation for females (especially dominant females) of the same breed/size to have tiffs over the top spot under the male..any male. Dogs naturally try to sort themselves into pack position and by having two clearly dominant females it throws the pack into disorder. Spaying may only serve to worsen the aggressiveness in females,also. I don't know if you have done that yet,so..:idunno:

Anytime you have an "independent thinking" breed..it's best for everyone involved to own male/female pairs..unless both dogs are naturally submissive in that case it's up to your own judgement. Temperamant testing and dominance training early can go a long way towards saving some headaches down the road.

If you haven't done any obedience training..it could do nothing but help your situation.Giving them their own space at night as you have done might pay off in the short run..but I would be very careful in the future in allowing them to interact.

 

[Cruentus]

I own three dogs, 95lb (male) 90lb (female) and 57 lbs (female) the two females have had 4 blood letting fights over the a three 3 year period over minor issues; the last two times I've tried pepper spray (First Defense® MK4 Police Size 10% Pepper Spray from GALLS.COM). The adrenaline rush allowed both dogs to continue their death grip on each other's throat for almost a full minute - this was after I emptied a 3oz container in their faces. After the minute was up the dogs finally loosened their grip and I could get them apart. In the meantime, I was coughing, tearing up and 'bout ready to vomit while the dogs were still hanging on to one another.

I would be VERY leery in making pepper spray my first choice, not to say that I wouldn't use it but its not the end all. I would get on top of a car, up a tree, fence, ANYTHING at least 3 feet off the ground that a dog would be hard pressed to climb.

That is all fine and good and your opinion, but pepper spray use is a commonly taught part of the force continuum against dogs because it is fairly reliable. Delivery men, mail men, and even cops (who carry guns, but might not want to risk shooting a bystander) are commonly taught too use OC against dogs and other animals because it generally works.

However, it is worth saying that OC Spray will have a tendency to work on a dog more reliably before it bites rather then after; the shock from the spray when the dog is in the middle of the fight and biting may cause the dog to "freeze" rather then to let go, which will result in a "locked on" jaw and the apparent continuation of the fight.

This could account for your experience.

However, of course nothing is 100% reliable in combat. But if it is mostly reliable and efffective then it is valid.

Some other decent advise in the rest of your post though....except I would reconsider your 3 foot rule. I work with dogs who can easily clear 6 foot obsticles - your mileage will vary on that one.

 

[Last Fearner]

Ok, I'm going to skip right over the "breed" issue, and the bad treatment by owners, and get right to the topic of self defense against a dog. Some valid points have been made, but I would like to speak directly from my experience.

First, let me tell you what that experience is. When I was nine years old, in 1969, I was attacked by neighbor's Alaskan Malamute Husky, and nearly mauled to death. It took my brother, and the dog's owner less than a minute to pull the dog off me, yet I received eight bites requiring more than 200 stitches. Among other bites, my left ear was torn half off, there was a hole to the bone in my leg, and another hole in my arm that went all the way through the elbow. The dog was later put down.

Regardless of the reason the dog was so mean, I nearly died because of it. My fear of dogs will never fully go away, and I don't think anyone who has never been nearly mauled to death, can fully understand that. I have learned to deal with the apprehension, and how to protect myself if a dog attacks. It enrages me to see dog owners take such a light stance about restraining their animals, waiting until the dog has barked, growled at, and even lunged toward a friendly visitor or passer-by before they intervene.

There are way too many true stories about children, and adults being murdered by these "pets." I have had to deal with several of my neighbors being inconsiderate with their dogs on the loose. I am currently dealing with one huge german shepard that the owner says is a "big friendly puppy," but it has tried to attack me several times, and once broke free of a chain to run full speed onto my property, right toward me.

Since I started training in the Martial Art, I have done extensive research on dog behavior, and methods of self defense against them. I don't back down from these animals. Twice, i have dropped dogs, completely unconscious, with roundhouse kicks to the side of the head. I think dogs make good pets in most cases, but even the best pet among family members, can bite their owners, injure or kill a child, and will very likely become aggressive to a stranger. The number of dog bites, and outright attacks that occur every year, and virtually every day, are evidence to this fact. Not to argue that there won't be hundreds of people here who will say, "not my dog," or "it depends on how the dog is treated," but this is not always the case, and for whatever reason a dog attacks, people must learn to defend properly.

When attacked by a vicious dog, most people will freeze, or run, and we know this is not good. The worst advice I've heard, came from so-called dog experts on tv saying to just clam up, and hope the dog stops biting (I could slap someone upside the head for that kind of advice). Facing the dog, and giving a stern shout is often a good method of intimidating a relatively obedient pet. Using objects in between, such as a bicycle can be effective. Rather than pepper spray, I usually carry one of those black 35 mm film cases full of Black Pepper. Flip the top and dump it in the dog's face. If the dog is close enough, or already biting you, dump the pepper right in his nostrils. This works for human attackers as well.

To avoid getting bit, use an article of clothing wadded up around your hand, or remove a shoe and offer that in your hand. Don't let go of the shoe. As they bite it, reach with your other hand, and grasp the top of the snout. This control works well, and allows you to do many options. While holding the snout, you can punch the nose. You can reach under the jaw, avoiding the teeth, grasp the throat, and lift the front of the dog up exposing its stomach. A front kick to the groin, or stomach will cause the dog great pain. If the dog is overly aggressive, and acts like it wants to kill you, you can gouge the eyes, or grab the lower jaw from the bottom, and twist the upper and lower in opposite directions to snap the jaw.

If a dog has a grip on your arm, and won't let go, slip a finger near the back of the lip, away from the teeth, into the dogs throat, causing a gag reflex (sounds strange, but it works. This is similar to how to get a horse to open its mouth and take a bit). In desperate situations, you can grab a dog's lower jaw, with your hand deep inside its mouth, and clamp down. You risk getting bit here, but they will struggle to open their mouth and get away. Grabbing the dog's tongue has the same effect. If a dog is biting your hand, grab the fur and skin on the back of the neck, and, instead of trying to pull your hand out of the mouth, shove it down the dog's throat.

People may scoff at these suggestions, but they do work, and if you are under deadly attack, fight the dog like you would fight a person. A kick to a dog's legs can break the leg. Stomp on the dog's spine, and it will damage it. The under belly is more sensitive to strikes than the ribs. As mentioned before, squeezing the throat will have a similar effect as it does with people. If a dog charges, and leaps at you, front kick the stomach straight on, or side step to avoid, and front kick up into the stomach. These tips are for serious situations, and when "negotiations" have failed.

If my self defense suggestions are not clear, and anyone has questions, or disagrees, please feel free to post your comments, and I will be more than happy to reply. I love pets when they are well behaved, and I do not advocate hurting animals except in self defense. These tips I have offered have been tested, used, and do work.

CM D. J. Eisenhart

 

[Wing Chun Dummy]

What will get you killed unnecessarily is your agressive, intimidating posturing. Have a serious and assertive manner about protecting yourself but don't try intimidating it.

All the stuff above may work but can also confuse people. Just defend yourself like you're serious, but only when necessary. No intimidation. Same applies to humans. It's like the person who talks a lot - u never expect them to be strong in a real fight.

 

[Cruentus]

I don't have a lot of time (busy weekend) so I'll just briefly outline a few points.

#1. The vast majority of dogs will listen to the calm-assertive person. Domestic dogs are genetically predisposed to listen and obey human being. We have records of the domestic dog as far back as we have records of human beings (within the first 100 years I believe).

Most dogs, even the sick or hurt dog, will not attack a human; and the ones that might will not do so with the determination to kill (they might snap or nip, but won't continue a full force attack to the death). This is regardless of breed. So, when we are talking about "dog defense," keep in mind that we are really refering too less than 1% of the dog population.

#2. Do not be fearful, then. If you are calm assertive and not afraid, you will be able to disipate most potential dog attacks by a simple order, "Get!" or "Go home!" or something of the kind. There is no reason to be fearful (just respectful and not careless) considering that the statistical probability of being attacked is very low, and the probability of being killed or seriously injured is even lower. There has been only 540 recorded deaths from dog attacks since 1965.

#3. Not being fearful is important because dogs can sense your mood, and will react accordingly. When I do "helper work" in protection (I'm in a bite suit or sleeve) I can manipulate the dogs mood and aggression to a degree (which we do to aid the training session) through nonverbal communication and mood (I will try to induce fear in myself, or I will tense my muscles to and think aggressively, etc., all to elicite a particular response from the dog).

So, if you are fearful and don't FEEL in control, the dog will know it, and will be less likely to obey you. This is why your calm assertive mindset is so important.

More, later, maybe....got to go!



Paul Janulis

 

[spinkick]

No disrespect but dont be a puss. People didn't get to be the dominant species by taking crap from a pitbull gouge his darn eyes out. Everytime someone tells me about someone getting attacked by a pitbull i get really upset because as scary as it might be I've been attacked by a German Shepard before and crushed its throat with my hand...... you just have to get mean

 

[Kwai chang caine]

Best advice is to try to get away first. Second use any weapon available. Remember that most dogs see looking them in the eyes as a challenge. However once a dog is allready upon you and you have to fight...go for the weakest points, gouge eyes, even a ravenous pit can have its eyes gouged, groin. The dogs bones are pretty thick so go for weakpoints. Avoid the teeth, and dodge and counter. It IS possible to win a fight with a pit-bull, you just have to be smarter and that is your advantage to a dog.

 

[Kwai chang caine]

No disrespect but dont be a puss. People didn't get to be the dominant species by taking crap from a pitbull gouge his darn eyes out. Everytime someone tells me about someone getting attacked by a pitbull i get really upset because as scary as it might be I've been attacked by a German Shepard before and crushed its throat with my hand...... you just have to get mean

I agree...thats funny I didnt even read your post before I posted and we said such similar things.

 

[Kwai chang caine]

One more thing...pit-bulls typically arent bad around people but other dogs.