I've seen that movie too. And unfortunatey, I got that "look" alot, while growing up.
Leave your kids at home....
- Thread starter MBuzzy
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I've seen that movie too. And unfortunatey, I got that "look" alot, while growing up.
To me, it's simple.
As a parent, it's my job to teach my kid to behave properly in a variety of settings. It's also my job to know his limitations. He's 8 months old. No movies, dinner out is limited to appropriately family friendly places, which will serve us rapidly enough that it's inside his behavior span. If I take him to church, and he starts to act out -- I take him out of the church. Again -- it's my job to know the limits.
Teaching him to behave does require exposing him to different situations. But that also means I have to be ready to enforce behavior by taking appropriate actions. At 8 months -- that means I (or my wife) take HIM outside until he calms down. As he gets older, that may mean telling him to behave -- and then taking him outside if he doesn't. (Or using other appropriate disciplinary steps, like no dessert or no carousel ride after the restaurant -- going back to my childhood where a restaurant would give out carousel tickets to kids...) Which just may mean neither of us get dinner...
But I'm not imposing HIS misbehavior on other people except in ways that I can't control, like getting stuck longer than expected or predicted somewhere.
As a parent, it's my job to teach my kid to behave properly in a variety of settings. It's also my job to know his limitations. He's 8 months old. No movies, dinner out is limited to appropriately family friendly places, which will serve us rapidly enough that it's inside his behavior span. If I take him to church, and he starts to act out -- I take him out of the church. Again -- it's my job to know the limits.
Teaching him to behave does require exposing him to different situations. But that also means I have to be ready to enforce behavior by taking appropriate actions. At 8 months -- that means I (or my wife) take HIM outside until he calms down. As he gets older, that may mean telling him to behave -- and then taking him outside if he doesn't. (Or using other appropriate disciplinary steps, like no dessert or no carousel ride after the restaurant -- going back to my childhood where a restaurant would give out carousel tickets to kids...) Which just may mean neither of us get dinner...
But I'm not imposing HIS misbehavior on other people except in ways that I can't control, like getting stuck longer than expected or predicted somewhere.
A very interesting thread, Buzzy.
I am heartened by the timbre of the replies within it too. It would seem that at least the section of the community that practise martial arts understand the necessity of discipline and consideration {odd that}.
Strangely it reminded me of the time I was flying from Calgary to Chicago and had some obnoxious brat kicking the back of my seat interminably. I got so angry that I honestly don't remember what I said and only recall that I got out of my seat and stood next to the goblins ... sorry, little angel's ... father's seat and exchanged a few words {blush}. The aircraft staff didn't say anything too me so I can't have been too out of line - maybe the English accent scored me a few points?
The moral is, if noone says anything then bad behaviour becomes normal behaviour to the detriment of the quality of life for everyone.
My wife and I took a trip to Washington DC years ago when my daughter was 18th months old. We took a tour of the Capitol and, like any toddler, Miss Olivia decided to try out her lungs in the main gathering chamber. A man became so enraged by this, he lunged at my child and my wife, shaking his fist and I promptly "interposed" myself and politely told him to stop attacking my family.
Before we get too righteous about parents and parenting, know that sometimes the **** hits the fan despite the best intentions. Kids can be angels one minute and devils the next. I won't excuse poor parenting, however, a little understanding goes a long ways.
Indeed and bravo!
We've taken our kids to touring Broadway shows, concerts, and fine restaurants for years, to expose them to these things and teach them how to act while there. We've often had people give us dirty looks as our kids walked in with us, fearing the worst, but have never garnered a complaint about their behavior. We wouldn't have taken them if they weren't ready.
Kids who are exposed to the arts (may) become adults who support the arts. But, if they're not ready...they're not ready.
With all the kid-friendly shows on Broadway these day, this has become an issue there too--the NY Times ran a big story on it a year or two ago. If kids are being rambunctious at Shrek: The Musical, can you complain?
Kids who are exposed to the arts (may) become adults who support the arts. But, if they're not ready...they're not ready.
With all the kid-friendly shows on Broadway these day, this has become an issue there too--the NY Times ran a big story on it a year or two ago. If kids are being rambunctious at Shrek: The Musical, can you complain?
Great point.
If I go to a afternoon matinee of Shrek or Astroboy or some other clearly kid-aimed movie, I have to expect a certain amount of kid behavior. And misbehavior. But if the kid's behavior crosses some reasonable threshold of disturbing the other patrons (both kids and adults), then they should be taken outside till they can behave. At the same time... I shouldn't have to deal with a dozen pre-teen kids running in the aisles at a 10 PM showing, either. Or, in my personal opinion, deal with the same kids in an R-rated film, whatever the hour. But then, I am probably a little bit of a square in that regard...
It seems to me that if kids are taught and given appropriate behavior models (the parent - or other adult - texting their way through Mass or the movie isn't exactly setting a good example, and probably needs to accept some of the blame for the kid doing the same...) early on and consistently, and given opportunities to practice and have those lessons reinforced, then the kids will know how to behave and won't be a problem. It's the ones who aren't taught (because telling them to behave might stifle their creativity or whatever crap) or are given bad examples (see the prior parenthetical comment) that become problems as a general rule.
And, sometimes, you have to recognize and realize that certain combinations aren't good, too... Put a bunch of early teen guys and girls together in almost any circumstances without a LOT of supervision, and you've got a recipe for problems! Especially if the girls encourage the guys at all... like by looking at them!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #28
Very good point! I agree that there is certainly some patience called for in dealing with parents and small children. If the parents had been making a reasonable effort to control him and removed him when it wasn't possible....that is a different story.
I'm about to have one and know that there will be situations when he
goes baby on me at the least opportune time, but I think that it says a lot about the parents when they deal with it well. Hopefully I have the wisdom to deal with it properly!
Hardly an appropriate reaction :tdown: (his, not yours).
In case my brief description of my mid-flight 'encounter' gave the wrong impression, the angrier I get, the calmer and more polite I become. When I reach the point where I have completely lost my temper, I don't speak - very odd I know :O.
All anyone can ask is that the parent make the attempt to correct the behaviour in question. Excusing it or defending it does little to improve matters. If the misbehaving child is below the age of cognition then all that can be done is remove it from the area where it's actions are inappropriate if it cannot be calmed in a reasonable time.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #30
How very English of you!
My thoughts exactly!
Live True
Brown Belt
I'm a lucky mother of a very precocious and curious child (who will be one year old tomorrow). She is also very social. So, we find trips anywhere are usually very positive, because she is fairly well behaved and "flirts" with folks. That said, I have had to take her out of restaurants before, and go to car, outside bench, what have you until she can calm down. I think many parents don't do this necessary tactic because it "spoils" their fun. Me, I look at it as part of my responsiblity as a parent (to her) and polite social person (other patrons).
That said, we take Karen everywhere with us. We want her to appreciate the outdoors, restaurants, etc. We haven't taken her to a movie theatre or play yet, as we also do as suggested here...keep it appropriate to her capabilities. However, we have a great local garden and another large public park that hold classic concerts on the lawn during the summers. That will be her first public exposure. She's already attended a fourth of July celebration with a wonderful military band playing classics and jazz selections.
So, as already stated...and simply confirmation...it's a combination of utilizing public venues that are appropriate to the child's age and behaviour (and seeking out alternatives) AND parental responsiblity. That last is two fold..responsibility to the child and thier developement and responsiblity to the others at the venue.
I think our daughter is so socially interactive because she is exposed to many venues, and she's encouraged to interact with people...not machines or gadgets. She has her baby/toddler moments...and we deal with them in turn. Mainly, we show her how we expect her to behave, keep an eye on her actions and try to distract/head off impending bad behaviour, and keep the willingness to remove ourselves from the situation. Short term inconvenience trading for long term child understanding and good behaviour. Works for me.
My two cents.
That said, we take Karen everywhere with us. We want her to appreciate the outdoors, restaurants, etc. We haven't taken her to a movie theatre or play yet, as we also do as suggested here...keep it appropriate to her capabilities. However, we have a great local garden and another large public park that hold classic concerts on the lawn during the summers. That will be her first public exposure. She's already attended a fourth of July celebration with a wonderful military band playing classics and jazz selections.
So, as already stated...and simply confirmation...it's a combination of utilizing public venues that are appropriate to the child's age and behaviour (and seeking out alternatives) AND parental responsiblity. That last is two fold..responsibility to the child and thier developement and responsiblity to the others at the venue.
I think our daughter is so socially interactive because she is exposed to many venues, and she's encouraged to interact with people...not machines or gadgets. She has her baby/toddler moments...and we deal with them in turn. Mainly, we show her how we expect her to behave, keep an eye on her actions and try to distract/head off impending bad behaviour, and keep the willingness to remove ourselves from the situation. Short term inconvenience trading for long term child understanding and good behaviour. Works for me.
My two cents.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #33
That is the other thing that I don't understand - there are SO MANY venues that are designed and acceptable for children. Why go to an evening performance of classical music, when there are matinees, outdoor concerts, children's musicals, etc etc....especially in our area. There is so much to do and it is always nice outside, so there are many many options for small children. If a kid misbehaves at an outdoor concert - or even a matinee, it is completely different!
