Learning to take strikes

[Deleted member 39746]

It's a matter of child safety.

We do not definitively know the age of said person, nor their relation with anyone there. We also do not have a medical report post incident or anything like that to show if any long term damage was sustained.

Because if anyone sees your post and hurts a child because of it, that's on you. There is no legitimate reason for this kind of training.

It isnt, the reason for that is obvious from what i have posted if it has been read and simple logic and commonsense.(that, funnily enough wasnt intended as a insult) There is and i have posted some of the reasons for it.


Should i take this as a unwillingness to engage in a argument? In additon to irrelivnces that have little place here and uncivil behaviour? I have trimmed away a lot of the irrelevency and uncivil behaviour along with not returning it in kind.

Plus my argument simply boils down to, everyone has their own morals, it is a tradtion and "wacky" tradtions exists, and nobody really knows anything about this to make judgement calls, martial arts are inherently unsafe and if who ever consented needs to, its irrelevent. If you disagree with any of that ona fundemental level, then its a "agree to disagree" situation.


edit: i checked the video, he did indeed actively try to block, most of the male shots got into his head, the female ended up doing mainly face shots. Which were mostly at least near the end blocked or obstructed in some fashion.


I have also jsut thought about something else, what if they thought the helmet provided suffcient concussive protection?

 

[Buka]

Everybody calm down, chill a little. No need for personal attacks and bad manners.

 

[Tez3]

Actively blocking when its the only thing you can do, doesnt seem passive to me, plus you loose the hopelessness and keep going drive if you turn it into another "dont get here at all costs, or immediately break out" drill. Train for the worst situation possible sometimes.

You really do talk complete bollocks you know.

 

[Tez3]

Everybody calm down, chill a little. No need for personal attacks and bad manners.

Sometimes one has to take a stand and bad manners is the least we can do. Anyone excusing child abuse is beyond the pale so stating he is talking bollocks, which of course he is, is the least of the problem here.

 

[skribs]

Everybody calm down, chill a little. No need for personal attacks and bad manners.

This is me trying to be nice, considering the subject at hand. But enough is enough.

We do not definitively know the age of said person, nor their relation with anyone there. We also do not have a medical report post incident or anything like that to show if any long term damage was sustained.

If you're going to try to sound smart, know what the research over the last 20 years has said about CTE. Even non-concussive events cause permanent damage.

Should i take this as a unwillingness to engage in a argument?

I am unwilling to consider that this isn't child abuse, because it clearly is. I am unwilling to consider that this is good training, because it clearly isn't. I am unwilling to listen to you defend this, because you're completely wrong and you're advocating for child abuse.

Plus my argument simply boils down to, everyone has their own morals, it is a tradtion and "wacky" tradtions exists, and nobody really knows anything about this to make judgement calls, martial arts are inherently unsafe and if who ever consented needs to, its irrelevent. If you disagree with any of that ona fundemental level, then its a "agree to disagree" situation.

No. It's abuse. Your argument simply boils down to fantasy, speculation, and guesses. There is no "agree to disagree". Because your position is one that condones child abuse and would have us look the other way for the sake of not offending a culture that abuses children. I'd much rather not see that kid get CTE and hurt someone's feelings instead.

edit: i checked the video, he did indeed actively try to block, most of the male shots got into his head, the female ended up doing mainly face shots. Which were mostly at least near the end blocked or obstructed in some fashion.

Try being the operative word. And you can have that same level of speed and test without the force of the follow-through. A lot of those shots weren't obstructed. And those shots landed with quite a bit of force. The fact you don't know how hard they land or not is because you don't have any actual knowledge of martial arts. Just a lot of guesses and theories you've never been in class long enough to test.

I have also jsut thought about something else, what if they thought the helmet provided suffcient concussive protection?

Then they need training. Research over the last couple of decades has proven that using helmets as an excuse to hit harder results in more concussions. Again, this is an example of you not knowing anything about how martial arts actually work, and just making a bunch of guesses. This is why I don't want to engage in an argument with you. Because you make long-winded posts in which everything is wrong.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I want to see you actually learn about martial arts. But if you continue to do what you are doing - just fiddle around with yourself or your buddies in your back yard, read a bunch of articles, and post nonsense here, you're never going to actually learn. Especially when you are too arrogant to listen to anyone and try to sound like the smartest person on this forum.

 

[skribs]

You really do talk complete bollocks you know.

That's really weird. I got an alert that you quoted me, but all I see is that you quoted Rat.

I hope MartialTalk isn't getting me confused with him...

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Yet you would have lost sight of me stating it is not my actual view and i am just presenting a neutral argument based on the facts presented in the video and story. Along with me stating the presumption i am taking is, its consentual.

 

[skribs]

Yet you would have lost sight of me stating it is not my actual view and i am just presenting a neutral argument based on the facts presented in the video and story. Along with me stating the presumption i am taking is, its consentual.

The fact you are even considering a neutral argument is the problem.

 

[Tez3]

That's really weird. I got an alert that you quoted me, but all I see is that you quoted Rat.

I hope MartialTalk isn't getting me confused with him...

That would NOT be a good thing!

 

[Tez3]

Yet you would have lost sight of me stating it is not my actual view and i am just presenting a neutral argument based on the facts presented in the video and story. Along with me stating the presumption i am taking is, its consentual.

There is no neutral position on child abuse. One is either against it or one is an enable of those who abuse. By not condemning child abuse you are part of the problem.

“We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented” – Elie Wiesel

In your case, playing the neutrality card is the same as saying nothing.

Along with me stating the presumption i am taking is, its consentual.

This is another part of your problem, this sentence makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

This is another part of your problem, this sentence makes no sense whatsoever.

I'm having a lot more trouble parsing his statements this time around, for some reason. But I think I get that sentence. I think he's stating that he's assuming the kid in the video consented to being beat up and abused. Which to him makes it okay that said kid was beat up/abused.

Which I don't get as A: abuse is never okay, often including some sort of manipulation to get the abusee to allow it (which is also not okay even if they all it), and B: a 12 year old can't consent to something like that.

 

[Headhunter]

Yet you would have lost sight of me stating it is not my actual view and i am just presenting a neutral argument based on the facts presented in the video and story. Along with me stating the presumption i am taking is, its consentual.

Consent doesn't matter when it's a child...there's a reason children have to get parental permission to sign up to these type of things or go on school trips etc.

why don't you enlighten us with a real opinion then instead of giving us this bs zen master neutral argument because frankly what it looks like right now is you're defending the people beating up a kid. That's what it looks like from a "neutral argument" perspective. That's why people are getting annoyed at you. Because this is obviously not right and yet when people are saying it's not right you're jumping in defending it.


I don't know you I have nothing against you personally I'm sure your a nice guy but you got to think about what you are saying and how you are saying it. There's some things you can look at from both sides. But not this. Show this video to any social services and they will class it as abuse

 

[Tez3]

I think he's stating that he's assuming the kid in the video consented to being beat up and abused. Which to him makes it okay that said kid was beat up/abused.

That just makes it even worse doesn't it?

 

[Buka]

I tried to watch the OP’s video again but couldn’t get it to work. But I remember it.

To clarify my opinion, if it needs clarification....

I’ve only taught and trained in contact Martial Arts. All the kids I’ve trained were trained in contact Martial Arts. There was no such thing as stopping a punch an an inch from the face and having it considered any kind of scoring technique, it was considered a miss.

But there are safe ways to do this. What I remember from the OP’s video was not what I consider safe, proper or helpful training.

I’m wondering about the two folks punching that kid. I’m wondering how beneficial they would find it if I set them up with the same opportunity - having somebody twice their weight and five times their skill level smacking the crap out of them while against a wall.

Sure would like to interview them afterwards to get their thoughts.

 

[drop bear]

I tried to watch the OP’s video again but couldn’t get it to work. But I remember it.

To clarify my opinion, if it needs clarification....

I’ve only taught and trained in contact Martial Arts. All the kids I’ve trained were trained in contact Martial Arts. There was no such thing as stopping a punch an an inch from the face and having it considered any kind of scoring technique, it was considered a miss.

But there are safe ways to do this. What I remember from the OP’s video was not what I consider safe, proper or helpful training.

I’m wondering about the two folks punching that kid. I’m wondering how beneficial they would find it if I set them up with the same opportunity - having somebody twice their weight and five times their skill level smacking the crap out of them while against a wall.

Sure would like to interview them afterwards to get their thoughts.

Added by @mcdojolife Instagram post Here we go again: 1) Video from @kapapacademysg YouTube channel 2) Their caption “Kenneth’s initiation into the Kapap brotherhood” 3) excerpt - “If you look at mma, how is that any different?” 4) The studio saying they are pursuing legal action against people who are speaking out against the video 5) Teo Yew Chye - Founder of this academy Don’t worry we will post a funny martial arts video later but stuff like this is ridiculous to me and the public should know what they are getting into before they join this academy. @killcliff @goldbjj - Picuki.com

 

[dvcochran]

Added by @mcdojolife Instagram post Here we go again: 1) Video from @kapapacademysg YouTube channel 2) Their caption “Kenneth’s initiation into the Kapap brotherhood” 3) excerpt - “If you look at mma, how is that any different?” 4) The studio saying they are pursuing legal action against people who are speaking out against the video 5) Teo Yew Chye - Founder of this academy Don’t worry we will post a funny martial arts video later but stuff like this is ridiculous to me and the public should know what they are getting into before they join this academy. @killcliff @goldbjj - Picuki.com

This is one of a Great many videos that were stopped too soon. I would love to see more of the before and after of this encounter. Are there precursors that would better explain this? It this even a 'child'? It looked like all three were of Asian decent to me. Are there cultural things at play we do not understand? Is this out and out hazing?
At face value, that is a very bad way to train. Period.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Which I don't get as A: abuse is never okay, often including some sort of manipulation to get the abusee to allow it (which is also not okay even if they all it), and B: a 12 year old can't consent to something like that.

The presumption in my presented argument was consent was given, by who ever needs to give it. (and i have wrote this before)

Diffrence in view for what you can and cant consent to. In my view, you can consent to pretty much anything irrelivent for how apprantly destructive it is, the medical concerns are only a factor in if the person consents or not. Manipulation wasnt factored in, if it was done it could lead to a diffrent view.

Too much is left out to really come to a clear conclusion as above mentioned, on if there was any manipulation, consent was given or not etc.


Just because it seems nessisary to post it now, my personal view and not taking a devils advocacy view on it is: If the parties that needed to consent, consented and it was lawful, then im fine with it. The medical ability of the person to do it is a factor for if consent should be given or not, as martial arts are inhernetly dangerous. But its ultimately down to the parent(s) and then child.
An example i can give is, if a childs parent didnt give consent to spar or explicity denied them from sparring (and they arent of age to give it lawfully speaking) and the instructor had them sparring, i would disagree with said action. As its just assualt, like wise if i didnt want to spar gave no indication of getting prepared to do it and somone walked over and kicked me in the shin, it would be assualt.

Fundementally speaking, no one is making you do it, and you are in charge for looking after yourself, viewpoint would change if it was forced. (as thats assualt pretty much everywhere)


6

 

[Tez3]

As its just assualt, like wise if i didnt want to spar gave no indication of getting prepared to do it and somone walked over and kicked me in the shin, it would be assualt.

Not so much assault as justified for supporting child abuse.

 

[skribs]

@Rat as you keep trying to argue this, you keep digging a bigger and bigger hole. People have pointed out several times that what you're doing is enabling child abuse. At first, we can chalk that up to your ignorance. Now that it has been pointed out, and you can continue to do so, I can only assume you are purposefully enabling child abuse. Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[wab25]

Watching the video of the kid getting beat up, reminded me of Judo. In Judo training, there are a lot of throws. Students are taught to fall and how to throw. The throws used and the speed used for the throws, matches the ability of the student. In most case, when the instructor throws the student, it is the safest falls the student has, as the instructor has the greatest control of the throw. The results here are that the students learn to take the throws and falls safely.

Unfortunately, Judo has an issue with certain instructors punishing their students with throws. They are throwing their students very hard, landing them on their heads, even choking some out first and then throwing them. The results here are students getting concussions, brain and spine injuries and death.

Concerning the video... there is a proper way to train students to take shots, to block shots, to deal with multiple attackers and to deal with being backed up to a wall. However, what that video showed was not any sort of proper way to do that. What the video showed was more like those Judo instructors concussing and killing their students with throws. There is no place for training of the sort shown in that video. I am sure that that particular art, is a fine art and has some fine instructors... those in the video were not them, and in my opinion, did that whole art a major disservice with that type of training. And you shouldn't need any training experience to see that video for the abuse that it was.