Leading senior citizens to the "Dark Side" - Right or wrong?

[Dirty Dog]

I am curious what kind of jian you have, and why you feel it would never be able to hold an edge? If it was properly heat treated then it should hold an edge. If it has a blunt edge, then a sharp edge can be put on it.

Speculating, since I've never seen @Xue Sheng's weapons.
"[P]roperly heat treated" doesn't tell you much (if anything) about edge holding ability. Because proper heat treating depends in large part on intended function. If the blade was never intended to be sharpened, then it is entirely possible that the materials and/or heat treating would reflect that. Even if the materials would otherwise be suitable for a sharpened blade, a significantly softer heat treatment might well be chosen to decrease brittleness.

 

[Flying Crane]

Speculating, since I've never seen @Xue Sheng's weapons.
"[P]roperly heat treated" doesn't tell you much (if anything) about edge holding ability. Because proper heat treating depends in large part on intended function. If the blade was never intended to be sharpened, then it is entirely possible that the materials and/or heat treating would reflect that. Even if the materials would otherwise be suitable for a sharpened blade, a significantly softer heat treatment might well be chosen to decrease brittleness.

This is true. I guess what I meant to say was, if the steel is an appropriate blade steel, and if the heat treatment was proper for a functional blade. Granted, if it is something coming out of one of the mass producers in China, it is probably impossible to know what kind of steel it is or what kind of heat treatment it was given.

So I say, sharpen that fellow up and see what happens.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I am curious what kind of jian you have, and why you feel it would never be able to hold an edge? If it was properly heat treated then it should hold an edge. If it has a blunt edge, then a sharp edge can be put on it.

The metal it is made out of, and the fact it is so light. It is a solid blade, not the flimsy wushu blade, I just doubt it would work as a combat sword. And since I don't plan on taking it into combat, it is not that important. I just like the weight of the actual steel Jian

 

[Oily Dragon]

This is true. I guess what I meant to say was, if the steel is an appropriate blade steel, and if the heat treatment was proper for a functional blade. Granted, if it is something coming out of one of the mass producers in China, it is probably impossible to know what kind of steel it is or what kind of heat treatment it was given.

So I say, sharpen that fellow up and see what happens.

This is why it's really important to know your importer.

Wing Lam, for instance, sells quality stuff. I'm sure the occasional crap leaks in, but overall I consider them trustworthy.

Wing Lam Enterprises | High Quality Martial Arts Supplies | WLE

Shop from the world's largest selection and best deals for traditional weapons. Shop with confidence at Wing Lam Enterprises store! High quality weapons, apparel, training materials, and more.

wle.com

 

[Flying Crane]

This is why it's really important to know your importer.

Wing Lam, for instance, sells quality stuff. I'm sure the occasional crap leaks in, but overall I consider them trustworthy.

Wing Lam Enterprises | High Quality Martial Arts Supplies | WLE

Shop from the world's largest selection and best deals for traditional weapons. Shop with confidence at Wing Lam Enterprises store! High quality weapons, apparel, training materials, and more.

wle.com

He does, but a lot of this stuff comes from Lung Chuan and very little further information is given. Lung Chuan stuff is available From a lot of places, and the city/region is famous for sword making, I believe historically as well as currently. The Lung Chuan swords tend to look very much the same, but I don’t know how many actual makers are there, if they all pool their stuff together for sale or if there is any way to distinguish one from the other, or if it matters in this case. Maybe they are all being made to the same standard.

I have seen on Wing Lam’s website and on others, a claim to have a higher grade of steel delivered to the manufacturers, to be used exclusively for them. Since Ive seen this claim made by more than one retailer, I don’t know what to make of it. Maybe it is true, maybe it’s just something that they say knowing that most of us are in no position to investigate.

I’ve bought a couple blades from WLE for which I built new hilts. One was a gift for my Wing Chun Sifu, the club paid for the materials and I did the work. The other, I still have and I do like it. But I am not in a position to state with certainty if either of these are of superior quality steel and heat treatments.

The only ones that I own, that I can say with confidence they are quality steel and workmanship, are the blades made by Angus Trim. He is from the Pacific Northwest, I don’t know if he is still making them at all, but I believe his work is well respected in the European sword groups.

For those that come from China, at least the Lung Chuan, I sort of take it on faith. There are some smaller craftsmen in China that have begun making swords, perhaps their work is more documented and information shared with the public, so one could know with more certainty. From what I’ve seen, they can also be rather expensive. But sometimes you get what you pay for.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The only other issue besides quality is the Jians that are, for lack of a better word, real. seem to range in price from $400 to $40,000. But I suspect the gold on the wooden sheath of the $40,000 one is real gold

 

[Flying Crane]

The only other issue besides quality is the Jians that are, for lack of a better word, real. seem to range in price from $400 to $40,000. But I suspect the gold on the wooden sheath of the $40,000 one is real gold

For that price, it had better be.

 

[Flying Crane]

The only other issue besides quality is the Jians that are, for lack of a better word, real. seem to range in price from $400 to $40,000. But I suspect the gold on the wooden sheath of the $40,000 one is real gold

When I began rebuilding swords I had visions of making elaborate masterpieces, guards shaped like cranes with spread wings, cast in silver with ruby or sapphires set into the eyes, stuff like that. I even did a couple of hilts in cast sterling, but they were simple designs. Funny how that fancy stuff never really materialized for me, and I recently took the silver off those two and redid them in steel. I find that there is an elegant beauty in the functional simplicity. Curly maple is beautiful, but that is a natural thing. I don’t need to add a bunch of fancy stuff and expensive materials. That would make me afraid to use any of it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

When I began rebuilding swords I had visions of making elaborate masterpieces, guards shaped like cranes with spread wings, cast in silver with ruby or sapphires set into the eyes, stuff like that. I even did a couple of hilts in cast sterling, but they were simple designs. Funny how that fancy stuff never really materialized for me, and I recently took the silver off those two and redid them in steel. I find that there is an elegant beauty in the functional simplicity. Curly maple is beautiful, but that is a natural thing. I don’t need to add a bunch of fancy stuff and expensive materials. That would make me afraid to use any of it.

Agreed. If it's too pretty to use...
The blades I make are intended to be functional, even if they will never be used. So I don't very often do things like a mirror polish.

 

[Flying Crane]

Agreed. If it's too pretty to use...
The blades I make are intended to be functional, even if they will never be used. So I don't very often do things like a mirror polish.

I do tend to try and get the steel to near mirror Polish. I may be wrong about this, but I believe that the more highly polished it is, the fewer tiny crevasses in which moisture can hide, and it resists rust somewhat better. Of course the blade is always oiled and in the scabbard when not being used, so perhaps it’s more important on the guard and pommel, if it matters at all.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I do tend to try and get the steel to near mirror Polish. I may be wrong about this, but I believe that the more highly polished it is, the fewer tiny crevasses in which moisture can hide, and it resists rust somewhat better. Of course the blade is always oiled and in the scabbard when not being used, so perhaps it’s more important on the guard and pommel, if it matters at all.

I just think it's more work than it's worth for something that will absolutely get scratched the first time it's used. I'm certainly not opposed to anybody spending as much time polishing as they want. I can't say anyone has done anything scientific, but my feeling is that corrosion resistance is going to be more a matter of materials, even with just basic care.

 

[Flying Crane]

I just think it's more work than it's worth for something that will absolutely get scratched the first time it's used. I'm certainly not opposed to anybody spending as much time polishing as they want. I can't say anyone has done anything scientific, but my feeling is that corrosion resistance is going to be more a matter of materials, even with just basic care.

Fair points, and I’m only doing forms/non-contact training at this point so I can keep them shinier for now.

 

[Old Happy Tiger]

I have been attending a Tai Chi class twice a week at the local senior center, lead by a very good instructor, whose agenda is based on the health aspects only. Every now and then, he will describe a martial application, but, due to the guidelines. I don't have a problem with this, but some of his students actually want to see some basic techniques, while a few have no interest at learning the so called "dark side"of Tai Chi,as one of them put it. After class, a few weeks ago,a couple of my classmates approached me, and we set up a time to work outside the class room. They knew that I had been training for ages, and even though I never claimed to be an expert, and will be a perpetual student with what time I have left, I started to show some basic applications to them, just to help them understand what can be done with and in between the postures. I am not wanting undermine our instructor by any means, so am I wrong to show them a glimpse of the so called "dark side" ?

I read this post, and I had to respond to it. The main thing to realize is there are a lot of Tai Chi Chuan instructors out there that only know and practice the form and that is all. Many, do not even know how to do push hands or even any traditional weapons. I learned a short Yang Tai Chi Chuan (TaijiQuan) form with one set of instructors, they also knew push hands but that was all. And please understand that I am grateful in what I what I learned from them. My other instructor knew the long old Yang Tai Chi Chuan (TaijQuan) form and taught it like a martial art with real applications from the movements of the form, push hands and also traditional weapons. Over in the U.S.A here, it is VERY rare to find that sort of training when finding Tai Chi Chuan being taught, it again is usually just the form that is it. I currently practice a very short Yang Tai Chi Chuan form. I also practice the individual postures alone as that is the older traditional way as well as self defense applications after that. I don't think there is anything wrong with people wanting to learn any family style of Tai Chi Chuan as exercise, that is great if that is what the individual wants... But anyone saying that self-defense applications is "the dark side" is 100% wrong. Tai Chi Chuan has always been a martial art, and many years ago.. In the past I've actually used it to defend myself... As with anything, constant practice is the main thing. My two cents.