Last Poster #8

[Steve]

60k was around what I had in loans from just my masters degree, if I remember correctly (I was lucky enough to live with my parents afterwards and put close to 100% of my income to paying it for a few years). It was an in-state private university, and I worked during summers in undergrad. While in graduate school, to help afford it, I had two part time jobs, and an unpaid internship that was required for the program.

Ah that makes sense. It's possible to get a bachelor's degree debt free, if you're willing to start at the community college, hold down a part time job, pinch your pennies and go to a public university. But grad school is a different thing altogether. When my daughter was considering grad school, her first thought was to get her masters and then the PhD. But when she started looking into it, it was a LOT cheaper to just jump straight into the PhD program. She got some great advice from some of the faculty in the chemistry department. It's a 4 or 5 year track, but as a research assistant, she is basically considered an employee of the university. She doesn't get all the benefits, but the tuition is heavily subsidized, and she receives a stipend each month. This also really helped when she was going through her cancer treatment last year. She was able to keep working on her research, and her lab took really good care of her.

All that said, it's just crazy to saddle young people with that much debt before they've even had a chance to get a job. If I were kind of the world, I'd make vocational school, certificate programs, and university transfer degree programs free for students, and heavily subsidize undergraduate education. It should be relatively easy to get a bachelor's degree with little or no debt (that's not self-inflicted). At the very least, it should be illegal for for-profit schools and predatory lenders to saddle kids and their families with a bunch of student loans that they may never realistically pay off.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Ah that makes sense. It's possible to get a bachelor's degree debt free, if you're willing to start at the community college, hold down a part time job, pinch your pennies and go to a public university. But grad school is a different thing altogether. When my daughter was considering grad school, her first thought was to get her masters and then the PhD. But when she started looking into it, it was a LOT cheaper to just jump straight into the PhD program. She got some great advice from some of the faculty in the chemistry department. It's a 4 or 5 year track, but as a research assistant, she is basically considered an employee of the university. She doesn't get all the benefits, but the tuition is heavily subsidized, and she receives a stipend each month. This also really helped when she was going through her cancer treatment last year. She was able to keep working on her research, and her lab took really good care of her.

All that said, it's just crazy to saddle young people with that much debt before they've even had a chance to get a job. If I were kind of the world, I'd make vocational school, certificate programs, and university transfer degree programs free for students, and heavily subsidize undergraduate education. It should be relatively easy to get a bachelor's degree with little or no debt (that's not self-inflicted). At the very least, it should be illegal for for-profit schools and predatory lenders to saddle kids and their families with a bunch of student loans that they may never realistically pay off.

The main issue is that for what I was initially going for, getting a masters degree was pretty much required. And no matter what school you go to, the prices were about the same and would require a year of an unpaid internship.

All for a needed service that pays ~30k a year to start. It's something you can only do if you're really willing to accept debt or have someone able to assist financially.

 

[jks9199]

Unexpected 9 hour airport layovers are so much fun

I think we need to discuss your concept of "fun."

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Duck season! Rabbit season! Duck season! Rabbit season! Troll season! Banned.

 

[Gyakuto]

60k was around what I had in loans from just my masters degree, if I remember correctly (I was lucky enough to live with my parents afterwards and put close to 100% of my income to paying it for a few years). It was an in-state private university, and I worked during summers in undergrad. While in graduate school, to help afford it, I had two part time jobs, and an unpaid internship that was required for the program.

In the U.K., the maximum fees students pay for university education is now £9,535 an academic year for full-time courses. In my old department of Biomedical Science, the actual, total cost of training a home student was £11,367 per academic year. Each home student cost the department money to have in the department! That shortfall was made up by taking on overseas students who paid anything up to £20,000+ a year. Then the rules were changed and it was made much more difficult for overseas students to come to British universities and so they stopped bothering and went to the USA instead. As a consequence, British university courses have been culled, with those who bring the least research grant income into the university, first. Those tend to be the arts and social studies courses. Archeology was close down in our university. It’s a great shame and I believe further education should be free as it was up until 1998. But, that means 50% of school leavers cannot go to university (it’d be unaffordable for the taxpayer ) and degrees would start becoming valuable again.

 

[Gyakuto]

The main issue is that for what I was initially going for, getting a masters degree was pretty much required.

The attitude over here was students did higher degrees because they loved the subject rather than required it. A delightful consequence of obtaining that higher degree was better employment prospects. Admittedly a subtle difference, but that attitude meant we got enthusiastic students; a very desirable attribute in a potential student.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Hey so. I’m super curious myself. Did you go to a private university? Out of state resident? Did you work at all while in school? Apply for scholarships or grants? That seems like a lot of debt to carry even before you have a good job!

The foundation diploma and BA I did at Carmarthen art college, which was West Wales school of the arts at the time, the MA I did part time with the open university. I worked with my dad in the workshop the whole time and at various odd jobs, including working with cattle. I once had to wrestle a cow because she had stopped drinking and eating. I held her steady while the farmer poured warm water down her mouth. Like I say, I would doze off for an hour or so after arriving at college as I had already done half a day's work before anyone arrived, except the cleaners who were my besties. While I was studying for my MA I worked as a stable hand. No grants or scholarships, I just lived very frugally. Like I say to people, an arts degree is only a waste of time if you don't treat it as seriously as it deserves. It might not be well regarded by employers, but I learned a lot of very useful and applicable skills.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

The attitude over here was students did higher degrees because they loved the subject rather than required it. A delightful consequence of obtaining that higher degree was better employment prospects. Admittedly a subtle difference, but that attitude meant we got enthusiastic students; a very desirable attribute in a potential student.

I agree, but having said that there were a lot of students on my MA course who only seemed there for the piece of paper. Along with the lecturer I had to sweat blood to even get a good conversation on Foucault started on the university message boards

 

[Gyakuto]

For those who don’t know, The Open University (OU) was set up in 1969 by the Labour government of Harold Wilson who wanted to open up higher education to all people but especially the ‘proletariat’. It’s the largest university in the U.K. by number of students, mainly self-studying with summer schools and (originally) television classes, now online. It regular wins best university, best lecture awards and is very good to it’s staff! A great institution.

Harold Wilson was a highly intellectual, Oxford don, who deliberately played down his intellectual abilities to appear ‘more like the people’ not least by pretending to smoke a pipe (in private he smoked cigars).

Famously, Margaret Thatcher once said, “What am I going to do with a working class with degrees?”

 

[HighKick]

A variety of methods. The BA in sculpture I got a student loan, as I studied in Wales the government paid my tuition fees. For the MA, I managed to save a few thousand and then it turned out I could get another loan to study a second degree part time. The B.Th would be funded to a certain extent by the church, if I pass the discernment process. The BsC that I plan to get would be after some time working actively as a priest, so I'd be able to put money aside from my stipend. Open university, part time.

I imagine we process things differently but what is the payback? I get the 'calling' and fully get it if the degree process is required.
Just harder for my engineering-based business mind to process things sometimes.

I wish you all the best in your endeavors.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

I imagine we process things differently but what is the payback? I get the 'calling' and fully get it if the degree process is required.
Just harder for my engineering-based business mind to process things sometimes.

I wish you all the best in your endeavors.

I did it all because I refuse to be a professional dogsbody for the rest of my life. Whether I want it to be or not, my talent happens to lie in the arts, and I intended to make the most of it. I learned to draw, I became aware of a great deal of theory which is not common knowledge, and I did various cool stuff like bronze casting. Then Jesus came along and called me to his side, so I'm not sure what's happening at the moment. So the B.Th, if and when I get it will lead directly to a form of 'employment', although that word seems scarcely appropriate to the task of preaching the lord's word. It's a stipend to allow you to do god's work, nothing more. I have few real needs, but I do want to be able to afford presents for my neices and nephew, on whom I absolutely dote.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Famously, Margaret Thatcher once said, “What am I going to do with a working class with degrees?”

It's funny that because a chap on the radio was saying that when you have an educated workforce, personal productivity seems to rise no matter what the work is or what they studied.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Qigong on the beach in South Carolina… its not Maine…. But it’s not bad, not bad at all

 

[Gyakuto]

It's funny that because a chap on the radio was saying that when you have an educated workforce, personal productivity seems to rise no matter what the work is or what they studied.

Yeah, we know what she was thinking.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Yeah, we know what she was thinking.

I wish I didn't. She was one of the vilest human beings ever to walk the face of the earth....

 

[Steve]

The main issue is that for what I was initially going for, getting a masters degree was pretty much required. And no matter what school you go to, the prices were about the same and would require a year of an unpaid internship.

All for a needed service that pays ~30k a year to start. It's something you can only do if you're really willing to accept debt or have someone able to assist financially.

Yeah, I guess what I was getting at is that saddling young people with that kind of debt just ain't right. As Tennessee Williams said, "You load sixteen tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt. Saint Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go. I owe my soul to the company store."

There are some things that could be done to help, I think.