Empty Hands
Senior Master
Yes, because one was fake, they all must be.
Good logic, Don! :highfive:
You also missed the point.
Lance Corporal David Motari
- Thread starter Fiendlover
- Start date
Yes, because one was fake, they all must be.
Good logic, Don! :highfive:
You also missed the point.
newGuy12
Master of Arts
I'm not trying to derail this thread either, but I wish to also put this link up here:
http://www.on-a-limb.com/?p=1047
Now that is how Marines are. These two, IF it pans out, are very different, AND, those of us who are not in the combat do not know what kind of stress that can put on someone.
http://www.on-a-limb.com/?p=1047
Now that is how Marines are. These two, IF it pans out, are very different, AND, those of us who are not in the combat do not know what kind of stress that can put on someone.
CoryKS
Senior Master
That's right, those of us who are not in combat do not know what kind of stress it can put on someone. But we can draw certain conclusions from the many thousands of men and women who WERE in the combat and didn't feel the need to kill dogs. So even if this turns out to be true, let's not be too quick to assign an excuse for this person's behavior, regardless of how nicely it may tie in to our own views regarding war. Stress or not, this was an individual's choice, an individual's action, and the blame lies squarely with him.
Archangel M
Senior Master
Well. It does show that people like that are out there and one should be sure of a videos authenticity before jumping to conclusions.
Empty Hands
Senior Master
Of course. You'll notice I did not say that this vid or any others was or was not authentic. What I am commenting on is the fury, outrage and immediate investigations that this video sparked whereas other videos purporting to show similar actions against humans did not provoke outrage or more importantly investigations.
Archangel M
Senior Master
[general rant] Even if it is true, the outcry for blood far outstrips what the punishment should be. I think an Article 15 [I think in the USMC its a "mast"] would normally suffice. Ive seen it used in worse cases [ask any vet of Desert Storm if they ever saw a camel shot up]. In the end the hype is because it was a puppy and we all have a soft spot for them in our society. We expect these guys to kill humans in our name but get all crazy when this happens? If true, this troop was a knucklehead who should be punished and we all should move on. Making this into some damnation of the USMC or the War is stupid. Grow up and wake up. In the scheme of war and killing this is more of a public relations problem than anything else. [/general rant]
Was this guy right or should he go unpunished? Not at all. If I were his NCO Id be kicking his *** for 1. killing a defenseless animal and 2. having it taped and put up on the net for all to see. What a lack of judgment all the way around. These days, if I were a CO there would be no way anybody, besides someone assigned it as a duty, would be out on patrol with a personal video camera.
Was this guy right or should he go unpunished? Not at all. If I were his NCO Id be kicking his *** for 1. killing a defenseless animal and 2. having it taped and put up on the net for all to see. What a lack of judgment all the way around. These days, if I were a CO there would be no way anybody, besides someone assigned it as a duty, would be out on patrol with a personal video camera.
Archangel M
Senior Master
True. Kind of goes with my last post.
I think with humans there is that background excuse that they could have been very bad people that had done very bad things. There is outrage, as with the Guantonamo Bay pictures, but a lot of people will still have that justification, that they where evil people, might not deserve what was being done, but they where bad. They even fit the image of what we get shoved in our faces about how bad islamic terrorists are supposed to look. A puppy is innocent no matter how you look at it. That puppy could not possibly have been a terrorist or anything more then a cute, innocent puppy. How do you excuse binding its feet and throwing it off a cliff for sport?
There can be no "he was a terrorist", no "We needed information from him", nothing. Just killing for fun, nothing more.
I agree that actions against humans should definately get the same sort of outrage, but that would be my guess as too why this causes such a big story.
There can be no "he was a terrorist", no "We needed information from him", nothing. Just killing for fun, nothing more.
I agree that actions against humans should definately get the same sort of outrage, but that would be my guess as too why this causes such a big story.
Dude, don't even worry about it, I know Marines, even have gotten to train alongside "former" Marines( at least 4 in my unit).
Anything we can think up to do to these two if it turns out to be warranted will be nowhere near as poetic, as profound, and anywhere near as big of a dump on these two as the Corps will administer.
Are you suggesting murdering a man for killing a dog?
Angel, defence of the military forces of your country is an admirable thing but as with any body of humans there are those within that are indefensible.
To even try to defend a situation, real or not, such as depicted here, serves only to undermine future defences for other atrocities commited under cover of your flag.
If it turns out to be real, I certainly wouldn't want to be acknowledged as being of the same nationality of such men - indeed I'd object to being defined as even the same species.
Cruelty is cruelty and the ability to commit such an act is a pretty fair indemnification of a mans character. Do it it to a puppy ... do it to a child ... it's not an extreme stretch once a soul has proven it's callousness.
To even try to defend a situation, real or not, such as depicted here, serves only to undermine future defences for other atrocities commited under cover of your flag.
If it turns out to be real, I certainly wouldn't want to be acknowledged as being of the same nationality of such men - indeed I'd object to being defined as even the same species.
Cruelty is cruelty and the ability to commit such an act is a pretty fair indemnification of a mans character. Do it it to a puppy ... do it to a child ... it's not an extreme stretch once a soul has proven it's callousness.
Archangel M
Senior Master
If you thought that i was "defending" these actions you are wrong. But "cruelty"? These guys are trained to put the barrel of a gun in an enemys face and pull the trigger. Or shove a bayonet in a mans gut. And not just once. Getting all worked up over a dog getting killed is a bit odd in comparison. Its still wrong, but here we have the "fat, lame and lazy" [an old military term for "non military" no personal insult] blowing gaskets over a dog but expect him to go into a house and kill the enemy in close quarters combat. And if you dont think that the Brit troops have done something comparable on occasion Id say you were mistaken. They have just been smart enough to not post it to You Tube [yet].
The idiot should be punished, a Captain's Mast, a reduction in rank, loss of pay, etc. for stupidity. And have his *** kicked by his squad leader -where the hell was HE btw? If that was my troop he would have been low crawling down that ravine and bringing the dog back up in his teeth.
Ran out of the service or imprisoned?? Please. Send him to war, that ought to teach him.
The idiot should be punished, a Captain's Mast, a reduction in rank, loss of pay, etc. for stupidity. And have his *** kicked by his squad leader -where the hell was HE btw? If that was my troop he would have been low crawling down that ravine and bringing the dog back up in his teeth.
Ran out of the service or imprisoned?? Please. Send him to war, that ought to teach him.
Not literally, no. That'll be my dark humor not manifesting itself correctly in a forum post again.
But what can I say? I have a special dark place in my heart for animal abusers. For any kind of abusers, really.
I'm a big supporter of US troops and admire what they are doing in the defense of this great country. But there is absolutely no excuse for what this Marine did. None. No two ways about it. I'm sure that the Marine Corps will find the appropriate punishment for this so called soldier.
Archangel M
Senior Master
It's a ****ing shame that we have these young men fighting and dying for us over in that **** hole called Iraq, and the biggest story in recent memory is this Bull ****.
I'd have put it in less earthy terms, but it comes to that, yes.
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