Kyusho Jitsu

[Turbo]

Why is there so much misdirection while teaching Kyusho? They say you only need angle and direction with the right combination of points! Its not that easy.....say you take a basic combination.

Fire, Metal, Wood,

While using the wrist points and striking LI 10, and finishing to Gallbladder 20 this should be a basic KO, I have seen many KOs demostrated with this process. When I try to duplicate this, yes it hurts the person, but no KO!

So if your point location and angle and direction are correct what else is there?

Yes I have even added the INTENT!

What are some other things we can try to improve our success with KYusho?

Turbo

 

[ppko]

Why is there so much misdirection while teaching Kyusho? They say you only need angle and direction with the right combination of points! Its not that easy.....say you take a basic combination.

Fire, Metal, Wood,

While using the wrist points and striking LI 10, and finishing to Gallbladder 20 this should be a basic KO, I have seen many KOs demostrated with this process. When I try to duplicate this, yes it hurts the person, but no KO!

So if your point location and angle and direction are correct what else is there?

Yes I have even added the INTENT!

What are some other things we can try to improve our success with KYusho?

Turbo

Have you tried hitting LI10 hard and Gb 20 with not as much force this may help.

PPKO

 

[Flatlander]

Mr. Stone, Mr. Rouuselot, thank you for the brief analysis. If I were looking for a Kyosho Jutsu practitioner under which to learn, do you have any reccommendations in terms of what to look for, affiliations, etc.? I haven't looked around yet, but I imagine this is something I will need to travel for If I want to learn.

 

[Matt Stone]

Why is there so much misdirection while teaching Kyusho? They say you only need angle and direction with the right combination of points! Its not that easy.....say you take a basic combination.

Fire, Metal, Wood,

While using the wrist points and striking LI 10, and finishing to Gallbladder 20 this should be a basic KO, I have seen many KOs demostrated with this process. When I try to duplicate this, yes it hurts the person, but no KO!

So if your point location and angle and direction are correct what else is there?

Yes I have even added the INTENT!

What are some other things we can try to improve our success with KYusho?

Turbo
Have you tried hitting LI10 hard and Gb 20 with not as much force this may help.

PPKO

1) I would love to have someone, anyone, perform the combination you are saying is a KO combination on me...

2) "GB 20," properly known as Fengchi in acupuncture, and known in our spotting method as "Heaven Point," requires more than just a light strike.

3) Perhaps the reason your "kyusho jutsu" doesn't work is that you haven't developed the correct kind of power in your technique... In traditional Chinese vital point striking, quite a bit of conditioning of the striking weapons and development of a particular quality of focused power is conducted in order to effect the points. You might want to consider what you are doing in terms of striking - just hitting them isn't enough; you need to hit them with the right angle and direction (you seem to know that), but also with the right kind of power.

Just a thought.

 

[Cruentus]

properly known as Fengchi in acupuncture

I prefer to knock people out using Fung-shui;

I redecorate their house poorly, making them feel faint at th sight.

nyuk nyuk nyuk...
:uhyeah:

 

[Matt Stone]

I prefer to knock people out using Fung-shui;

I redecorate their house poorly, making them feel faint at th sight.

nyuk nyuk nyuk...
:uhyeah:

Or, alternately, rearrange your furniture and then invite them in (with the lights turned out). Don't tell people you've moved the tables.

I like Dog Fu, too... I invite people over and loose my pit bull upon them...

 

[ppko]

1) I would love to have someone, anyone, perform the combination you are saying is a KO combination on me...

2) "GB 20," properly known as Fengchi in acupuncture, and known in our spotting method as "Heaven Point," requires more than just a light strike.

3) Perhaps the reason your "kyusho jutsu" doesn't work is that you haven't developed the correct kind of power in your technique... In traditional Chinese vital point striking, quite a bit of conditioning of the striking weapons and development of a particular quality of focused power is conducted in order to effect the points. You might want to consider what you are doing in terms of striking - just hitting them isn't enough; you need to hit them with the right angle and direction (you seem to know that), but also with the right kind of power.

Just a thought.

First of all I was just using the example that he gave me if I hit LI10 my next point would probably be LI18

PPKO

 

[Cryozombie]

Matt, I do Ching Ching Pow.

That brings up a good question... for the Kyusho points to be effective, do they require light, moderate, or powerful strikes, or does it depend on the combination of points?

 

[ppko]

Matt, I do Ching Ching Pow.

That brings up a good question... for the Kyusho points to be effective, do they require light, moderate, or powerful strikes, or does it depend on the combination of points?

It all goes by feel for instance if you kick Sp6 hard than more than not you should be able to lightly tap St5. If you do your strikes one at a time in a dojo setting. On the street you can't think like that you just do what you need to to survive.
PPKO

 

[Matt Stone]

First of all I was just using the example that he gave me if I hit LI10 my next point would probably be LI18

PPKO

I wasn't saying the combination wouldn't work, just that I don't necessarily believe in the need for combinations in the first place and secondly I want someone to apply their alleged skill in pressure point striking to KO me...

I asked my teacher to do it so I could experience it and so that I would know, definitively, that he could do it. With DKI preaching their skills worldwide, I want to see if a DKI person can KO a non-believer...

And I won't even touch on the "no touch KO" at all... That's a whole 'nother animal altogether...

 

[ppko]

I wasn't saying the combination wouldn't work, just that I don't necessarily believe in the need for combinations in the first place and secondly I want someone to apply their alleged skill in pressure point striking to KO me...

I asked my teacher to do it so I could experience it and so that I would know, definitively, that he could do it. With DKI preaching their skills worldwide, I want to see if a DKI person can KO a non-believer...

And I won't even touch on the "no touch KO" at all... That's a whole 'nother animal altogether...

Come to a DKI seminar and tell them what you have told me and I am sure they will have no problem KOing you, preferably make it a George Dillman seminar.

PPKO

 

[Matt Stone]

Matt, I do Ching Ching Pow.

So do I... Preferably from at least 400 meters out, but that's just me...

ONE SHOT ONE KILL HOOAH!!!

That brings up a good question... for the Kyusho points to be effective, do they require light, moderate, or powerful strikes, or does it depend on the combination of points?

I can't speak about DKI combinations... We don't do it that way. We may use multiple points during an engagement, but we don't require points to be hit in sequences in order for other points to work.

As for the amount of power, for us, it depends on the point, what underlying structure it affects (bone, muscle, nerve, blood), and the relative depth of the point in the tissue.

 

[ppko]

So do I... Preferably from at least 400 meters out, but that's just me...

ONE SHOT ONE KILL HOOAH!!!



I can't speak about DKI combinations... We don't do it that way. We may use multiple points during an engagement, but we don't require points to be hit in sequences in order for other points to work.

As for the amount of power, for us, it depends on the point, what underlying structure it affects (bone, muscle, nerve, blood), and the relative depth of the point in the tissue.

We only learn how to do the knock outs but we also research how to do the kills but we do not practice those there is no need to we have done it for medical research and that is all we have to do.

PPKO

 

[Matt Stone]

Come to a DKI seminar and tell them what you have told me and I am sure they will have no problem KOing you, preferably make it a George Dillman seminar.

PPKO

Getting snippy are we?

If George ever ends up out this way, or even his students, I wouldn't have a problem paying to attend their seminar. I'd go in with an open mind, believe me. But it boils down to "show me or blow me," and I know the difference between a Jedi love tap and being hit hard enough to KO me anyway (which is something I remember being said about George - one person wasn't sure if it was kyusho or just the fact that George hit like a mule that KOd him in the end...)...

But until that time... I remain unconvinced.

 

[Matt Stone]

We only learn how to do the knock outs but we also research how to do the kills but we do not practice those there is no need to we have done it for medical research and that is all we have to do.

PPKO

What medical facilities, universities, or independent organizations have worked with DKI to research these things? I'd like to contact them to find out what their findings were...

 

[Cruentus]

The thing is, if you do a block and a check on someones attacking hand, and slam a knife hand on the side of their neck, they very well should KO. This could be said to be a "pressure point combination."

It just makes sense...the bodies bio-electrical energy and blood rushes to the truama on the wrist, leaving the neck more exposed to a shot. Some of the stuff is very practical, I think, whether its DKI, RyuKyu, or even where I do this in Modern Arnis (but we don't memorize points...we just do it). When you give trauma to one part of the body, other parts are more vulnerable. I don't do DKI, I just train and spar; and that just makes sense regardless of what you train in, and how "legit" it is.

Then there is other stuff that is purely speculative often not practical, such as the time of day and element stuff, the "emotional" stuff, and especially the no-touch stuff. Now, I am being purposefully vague here by saying "stuff" because I don't even want to argue specifics, as that isn't the point of what I am saying.

I am not a "theoretical" martial artist. I may talk a great game on line, but when I train, I am more concerned with "DOING" first, rather then speculating over things.

Anyways, my point is, that when it comes to self defense, I think that we shouldn't lose site on the practical and simple and "road tested" stuff, because that's what your going to use anyways.

:asian:
PAUL
P.S. For gods sakes, can someone help me spell the word "Trauma."

 

[ppko]

What medical facilities, universities, or independent organizations have worked with DKI to research these things? I'd like to contact them to find out what their findings were...

I know that we have been to UVA many times and we do a lot in Canada I will get the info for you.

PPKO
P.S.
Yes I am a little snippy but I have every reason to be. Until I am convinced that you are done attacking me and ready to talk to me than yes I have every right to be snippy.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Matt and Turbo thanks for trying to give some insite into various points and as to how and why they are used to a spicific end.
I realise that many points should not even be discussed but I see no reason why some of the non lethal ones can not.
Yes, I know that an errant strike , that misss its mark may cause much damage, but so can an errant punch or kick by anyone. I have seen the results of a misplaced strike that missed the nerve and hit a vain. It caused a clot , the clot dislodged, emegency surgurey was required to save the mans life. So I do not ask for this discussion out of ignorance of what could happen but rather in the intrest of learning and understanding.

 

[arnisador]

Come to a DKI seminar and tell them what you have told me and I am sure they will have no problem KOing you, preferably make it a George Dillman seminar.

I've tried that...no luck.

 

[klif]

CULT - Any group which has a pyramid type authoritarian
leadership structure with all teaching and guidance coming
from the person/persons at the top. The group will claim to be
the only way to God; Nirvana; Paradise; Ultimate Reality; Full
Potential, Way to Happiness etc, and will use thought reform
or mind control techniques to gain control and keep their
members.

This definition covers cults within all majopr world
religions, along with those cults which have no OBVIOUS
religious base such as commercial, educational and
psychological cults. Others may define these a little
differently, but this is the simplest to work from.