Kukkiwon 10th Dans...who are they?

[exile]

Thanks for the info Andy! I figured if the KKW stated that there were 50-some 10th Dans, they weren't talking about folks that had given themselves the title. Anyone find out more about who these folks might be?

The KKW itself must have those records, no? They would keep track of that sort of thing---probably keep track of everyone whose belt rank they've certified---and I can't imagine it would be secret info or anything like that, eh?

 

[andyjeffries]

The KKW itself must have those records, no? They would keep track of that sort of thing---probably keep track of everyone whose belt rank they've certified---and I can't imagine it would be secret info or anything like that, eh?

I've emailed them to ask, I'll post the reply if/when it arrives.

 

[exile]

I've emailed them to ask, I'll post the reply if/when it arrives.

Thanks v. much, Andy!

 

[andyjeffries]

I also tried search Google.co.kr using 국기원 십단 as the search terms, but no joy except for finding out that at some point the Kukkiwon re-examination fee for 10th Dan was listed as $1000.

It doesn't help that my Korean knowledge of grammer/vocabulary is very very basic (my dictionary is VERY useful) and automatic translation services translate 단 - dan as "only" which makes for some difficult reading

 

[exile]

I also tried search Google.co.kr using ??? ?? as the search terms, but no joy except for finding out that at some point the Kukkiwon re-examination fee for 10th Dan was listed as $1000.

I find all this mind-bending... people actually test and do poomsae and other stuff and then get a tenth dan?? I mean... what do they do?? I'm having a very hard time imagining a test which is to 9th dan as the test for second dan is to the test for first dan...

It doesn't help that my Korean knowledge of grammer/vocabulary is very very basic (my dictionary is VERY useful) and automatic translation services translate ? - dan as "only" which makes for some difficult reading

Do you have any Korean friends or acquaintances who know enough about TKD to be able to help there? We have a fair number of Korean graduate students, but none of them do TKD...

 

[IcemanSK]

The KKW itself must have those records, no? They would keep track of that sort of thing---probably keep track of everyone whose belt rank they've certified---and I can't imagine it would be secret info or anything like that, eh?

Yes, I'm sure the KKW has the info. It's just not on their site.

 

[exile]

Yes, I'm sure the KKW has the info. It's just not on their site.

I'm really looking forward to what AJ turns up... I'm still trying to picture someone actually testing for 10th dan...

 

[zDom]

Early on in my martial arts career I was told that those higher dans are just awarded based on time in grade and contributions to the art such as establishing schools / organizations, holding tournaments, etc.

But then I also thought I heard my friend telling me that GM Ed Sell actually DID go through a physical test for his 10th dan (not sure if that was Chung Do Kwan rank or KKW — someone else in the USCDKA may know).

In any case, I think physical tests peak in difficulty at about 3rd or 4th dan — again I don't have any confirmation for this, so someone else might want to chime in.

 

[IcemanSK]

Early on in my martial arts career I was told that those higher dans are just awarded based on time in grade and contributions to the art such as establishing schools / organizations, holding tournaments, etc.

But then I also thought I heard my friend telling me that GM Ed Sell actually DID go through a physical test for his 10th dan (not sure if that was Chung Do Kwan rank or KKW — someone else in the USCDKA may know).

In any case, I think physical tests peak in difficulty at about 3rd or 4th dan — again I don't have any confirmation for this, so someone else might want to chime in.

ZDom:

GM Sell did not test for 10th Dan: it was for 9th Dan at the KKW on Sept 10, 2001. He tested for for 9th Dan Chung Do Kwan in 1999. He is the highest ranked non-Korean thru the KKW. His instructor however, (GM Park Hae Man) & GM Park's instructor (GM Uhm, Woon Kyu) are 10th Dan KKW. GM Sell is ONLY a 9th Dan.

 

[zDom]

ZDom:

GM Sell did not test for 10th Dan: it was for 9th Dan at the KKW on Sept 10, 2001. He tested for for 9th Dan Chung Do Kwan in 1999. He is the highest ranked non-Korean thru the KKW. His instructor however, (GM Park Hae Man) & GM Park's instructor (GM Uhm, Woon Kyu) are 10th Dan KKW. GM Sell is ONLY a 9th Dan.

Ahhh that's right. Thanks for setting that straight, Iceman. :asian:

 

[terryl965]

Well though my insight there are only alive twenty seven 10th Dans and out of that only five was given out as a test, the gentleman that told me this is suppose to forward the info. me and when I recieve it I'll post it.

 

[Fluffy]

I don't know if it was through the KKW, but ATA founder Eternal Grandmaster H.U. Lee was awarded his 10th Dan after his death.

 

[exile]

Well though my insight there are only alive twenty seven 10th Dans and out of that only five was given out as a test, the gentleman that told me this is suppose to forward the info. me and when I recieve it I'll post it.

Thanks, Terry, it would be interesting to know about that. You can't help but wonder, what is it someone would actually have to do to pass a test for that TKD rank such that there is no higher rank? What extra knowledge and ability is it which distinguishes a mere 9th dan from the unsurpassable 10th?

:idunno:

 

[FieldDiscipline]

I believe GM Kim Bok Man is one of them, I was also under the impression that you didnt test at that level and it was awarded as a 'service to TKD' kind of thing.

I'd definately like to see the list.

 

[IcemanSK]

I believe GM Kim Bok Man is one of them, I was also under the impression that you didnt test at that level and it was awarded as a 'service to TKD' kind of thing.

I'd definately like to see the list.

My understanding of awarding 10th Dan in TKD is the same as yours. (Meritorious service to TKD) 9th Dan can be tested for. The info that I have seen is that there have been either 52 or 54 people awarded this honor. I think it' would be a great lesson for all Taekwondoan to see who has received this honor.

 

[jim777]

Is GM Jhoon Rhee a 10th Dan then? I've only been involved with TKD as a student for about 6 months myself, and even I've learned from GM Rhee and his awesome hyung series of books. I can easily see how his contributions to the art would push him over the top.

Another name I remember from way back when (late 70's, early 80's) was Master Hee Il Cho. Any chance he's on the list? He did lots of articles and a few books as well back then, and was certainly doing his part to popularize the art in the US at any rate. Plus, he had the really cool hair thing going on as well

 

[IcemanSK]

Is GM Jhoon Rhee a 10th Dan then? I've only been involved with TKD as a student for about 6 months myself, and even I've learned from GM Rhee and his awesome hyung series of books. I can easily see how his contributions to the art would push him over the top.

Another name I remember from way back when (late 70's, early 80's) was Master Hee Il Cho. Any chance he's on the list? He did lots of articles and a few books as well back then, and was certainly doing his part to popularize the art in the US at any rate. Plus, he had the really cool hair thing going on as well

My understanding (from a credible source) is that he is not. Although he does state on his website that he is a 10th Dan. Nowhere does he state what organization had given him that rank. Jhoon Rhee is an excellent martial artist to be sure.

 

[troubleenuf]

Testing after 4th Dan is a "formality". You are required to do several patterns and several breaks and a paper. Some choose to do a more envolving demonstration but it is not requred. It is more of a time requirement than anything.
There may be that many 10th Dans listed because it would be cumulitive from the time it originated till now. Since most have died I would guess that living 10th Dans would be a somewhat few number and a compleatly different question.

 

[Laurentkd]

I had had the impression that 10th was an honorary posthumous thing... guess I that way wrong!

I had also originally learned that, until like Iceman I saw there were several listed on the Kukkiwan page, and my reality was shattered.

Master Stoker, I look forward to your future post on this.

Edit: sorry, just realized the first posts here are really old...

 

[Sukerkin]

Not meaning any disrespect at all but this talk of fifty plus 10th dans is dizzying!

Perhaps it's because I practise a Japanese sword art but, as far as I know, there are no (legitimate) living 10th dans in MJER. Even Sensei Iwata, probably the most famous proponent of the art (certainly in Europe) is a mere 8th Dan and he's mekyo kaiden .

It's not for me, or anyone not close to that rank to judge but isn't it a little worrying that so many are claiming, seemingly with official approval, the highest rank in the organisation?

To reiterate, I mean no overt disapproval. A little clarification would be welcome tho' as I'm sure I've got the wrong end of the stick :O.