Hi there,
Could you expand on this point a bit? I train IKMF and am familiar with the term but am very interested as to what you mean by this?
Krav Maga Organizations
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Hi there,
Could you expand on this point a bit? I train IKMF and am familiar with the term but am very interested as to what you mean by this?
Retzev is something you need to see. I really don't know how to explain it in text, and I truely don't think it can be properly explained in text.
Retsev literally means "continuous attack". In proper Krav Maga, retsev is the basis for everything we do. If you watch David Kahn's youtube video (
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girlbug2
Master of Arts
Greetings Spork.
At my KMWW school in Huntington Beach, we have never used the term "retzev", it is true. However the principles of continuous attack and overwhelming destruction of the opponent are taught to students from day one. The link you provided showed pretty much what is taught at my school, at about the same speed: in fact, some of the instructors (notably the head instructor, Beau Durocher) tend to perform those moves even faster.
As a lowly orange belt, and one who has not trained at any other KM school or in any KM system other than KMWW, I realize that I am not qualified to pass judgement on other systems and organizations. I can only report what I have observed so far, which is, that what is called retzev is practiced and taught every day.
Perhaps as a black belt you have visited Krav Maga schools throughout the country, but how can you assert that you have been to enough of them to pass judgement on what goes on in most of them (however many that would be) as a cheap imitation? How do you know that you have seen is what is taught in most schools?
Just as there are continuous debates that go on between factions of other styles (EPAK, TKD, BJJ, etc) as to who has the "authentic" and "original" version, so I see that there is nothing new under the sun here, either. It would seem that Krav is also cursed with this martial arts affliction.
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If your instructor teaches true retsev, he has trained, extensively, in Israel, under Haim Gidon. Retsev, in it's true form, is not in KMAA (World-Wide) or IKMF's (American) curriculum, period. World-Wide also does not teach "getting off the line" against outside attacks, or the proper, modern, defenses for being attacked by a "stick". I'm sorry if I've offended you, but there is no argument here - it is a simple fact, and I'm sure I'll get flak from you and others for saying this, but, again, it is a simple fact that that there is a wrong way, and a correct way, and when it comes down to it the vast majority of "Krav Maga World-Wide" schools teach, more-or-less, "Krav Maga Lite". If you want proof of this, go ask Darren how his Black Belts did against the IKMA's Orange Belts a few years back.
Also, for the record, I have no real qualms with the KMF and IKMF orginizations. They choose to be "traditional" and not use, or want, the updated materials - which is fine honestly. I just, unfortunately, have little love for World-Wide - but I don't want to get in a pissing match so I'll stop now.
girlbug2
Master of Arts
I, too will stop because I do not foresee this thread going in a good direction.
Peace be with you.
Peace be with you.
Hi Spork,
I have never encountered the term "retzev" in my IKMF training, but from what you have described and what is shown by David Kahn in the clip, it is exactly the same as what is coined within the IKMF as "Broken Rythm" and "Shattered Rythm", i.e. your attacks come continuously, without waiting for the previous attack to land and are not disconected.
This was one of the first principles I learnt back in 1998 at a seminar with Eyal Yanilov.
These principles are part of the Graduate 4 curricullum for testing, although most instructors I know teach them to students fairly early on in their training.
Greetings
John.
Horribilis
White Belt
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What about the Krav Maga Alliance?
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I'd like to know this as well.
They are not the same. I only know the ones in Cali and NY. KMWW (Daren Levine's gang) is more like Tebow (little technique more LA fitness), IKMA (I have no idea), IKMF and Haim Zut are the best in my experience. There are so many bad Krav Maga instructors around. Stick with the IKMF or Haim Zut and I have tried them all! Krav Maga Alliance is a break off of KMWW (it is better than KMWW but over proiced and John Whitman is a great instructor but not in the same league as IKMF and Haim Zut.
Hi guys...
In South America we have an organization too. It is the FSAKM (South American Krav Maga Federation - translated from portuguese). The head is the master Kobi Lichtenstein. For those who wanted to know more there is a website also in English.
Answering the question, I believe the philosophy is the same. I always listen in the classes that the main goal is to reach home alive. Probably there will be differences due to different instructors, different ideas and different egos, but if Krav Maga give you skills to reach home alive, even if you have to run away from a bad situation (that is very important here in Brasil, nowadays... hehehe), it is already a good technique...
Keep training, by.
Celio
In South America we have an organization too. It is the FSAKM (South American Krav Maga Federation - translated from portuguese). The head is the master Kobi Lichtenstein. For those who wanted to know more there is a website also in English.
Answering the question, I believe the philosophy is the same. I always listen in the classes that the main goal is to reach home alive. Probably there will be differences due to different instructors, different ideas and different egos, but if Krav Maga give you skills to reach home alive, even if you have to run away from a bad situation (that is very important here in Brasil, nowadays... hehehe), it is already a good technique...
Keep training, by.
Celio
Bama Dude
White Belt
I trained under Mark Slane of United States Krav Maga (USKMA). Mark was teaching TKD for over 20 years when he discovered Krav Maga. He was in the first group of US Krav Maga Black Belts back in the 90's under WWKM. He formed his own association USKMA around 2008. My name is Marty Kradlak and I became a certified KM instructor in 2008 and run my school Dynamic Krav Maga & Fitness in Huntsville, AL. For info check it out at www.hsv-km.com
Regarding all the ego talk about who's the better instructor and who teaches the best Krav Maga, in my opinion you all miss the philosophy of Imi. His purpose was to train people to walk in peace through confidence and security. True, there are instructors that may be in it for the money and not be the best instructors or the toughest. But there's an old saying "It's not how good the instructor is, it's how good the instructor can make you". Teaching techniques and class curriculum are important and vital to learning Krav Maga. But remember, we are training and instructing others for survival against an attack, not competition to see who's the best. If that's what you're looking for, stick with martial arts or MMA where they compete.
I was training down at Force 3 Krav Maga in Jacksonville, FL. Brannon Hicks, the owner and a Krav Maga black belt, had a sign on the wall that sums it up. It said "NO EGO".
Nuff said.
Regarding all the ego talk about who's the better instructor and who teaches the best Krav Maga, in my opinion you all miss the philosophy of Imi. His purpose was to train people to walk in peace through confidence and security. True, there are instructors that may be in it for the money and not be the best instructors or the toughest. But there's an old saying "It's not how good the instructor is, it's how good the instructor can make you". Teaching techniques and class curriculum are important and vital to learning Krav Maga. But remember, we are training and instructing others for survival against an attack, not competition to see who's the best. If that's what you're looking for, stick with martial arts or MMA where they compete.
I was training down at Force 3 Krav Maga in Jacksonville, FL. Brannon Hicks, the owner and a Krav Maga black belt, had a sign on the wall that sums it up. It said "NO EGO".
Nuff said.
mattjans
Yellow Belt
Just a comment on the "over-priced" comment. I haven't looked at intro pricing lately, but I pay $150 for access to all classes at Alliance (John W's new gym). That includes Krav, Cross Fit, Strike Fit (basically a heavy-bag class), Muay Thai, and yoga. I was looking for a new martial art, but also was curious about cross fit. I do CF and Krav and have tried Strike Fit and MT. They're all great, but those two are my core. Anyway, the price didn't seem high compared to what I've seen for similar gyms (or even just for Bikram yoga, where you can only do one thing)
And I totally agree that John is a great teacher! You get a solid work-out, but it's clear that it's with the goal of conditioning. Lots of hands-on drills, on-on-one, multi-on-one, etc., so it's NOT just an aerobics class with some kicking and punch at all. To be clear, this is my only KM experience, but I've done traditional martial arts in the past (through 1st Dan in Tang Soo Do), and what I've learned in about a year (off and on) of KM, has totally re-shaped how I think about self-defense and combat (and hopefully made me better). Just my two cents.
mattjans
Yellow Belt
I totally get this feeling at Alliance KM. No BS/attitude about the instructors and their seniority an skills, and a very down-to-earth and supportive environment. No over-selling of the techniques, and a clear study the why and how of core principles and movements. I really like training there. I think Imi's quote applies 100% to Alliance, too. They're trying to make us better, safer, etc.
Just an FYI. There are people on this forum that will come down hard on you for responding to a thread that is 10 years old. I don't agree with that, because I like to read responses to all threads no matter how old they are. But be warned, some one here will love with you. And probably a staff member that I wont name.
mattjans
Yellow Belt
Thanks for the heads-up Tames. That wouldn't be very friendly I figure that if the thread is open, it's fair game. And the post I replied to is only a couple years old. Anway, I know the need to keep a forum clean (I moderate one myself), but on others one which I participate, the moderators close threads when they don't want them added to.
Cheers!
I figure that if the thread is open, it's fair game. And the post I replied to is only a couple years old. Anway, I know the need to keep a forum clean (I moderate one myself), but on others one which I participate, the moderators close threads when they don't want them added to.Cheers!
Responding to old threads is usually fine. If you're answering a specific question about "should I try x school" for someone who hasn't been on the forum for 10 years or something like that, then you may get a gentle reminder that the original participants aren't around any more.
mattjans
Yellow Belt
Thanks for clarifying, Tony. I'm new here
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