Knife Techniques In The Kenpo System

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson

Second off, sure, train like you fight. generally speaking, quite true. But for reasons already advanced, I'd argue it's nuts to train kenpo techniques with live blades--makes me wonder if this isn't a big chunk of why you're not still training. And if you'll check out the other thread on this, you'll note that at least one poster says that even military guys who used knives DID NOT TRAIN with them.

This is true. I have a copy of the current US Army Combatives Field Manual, and there is a section on knives. They specifically DO NOT recomend using live blades with partner work. Per my link above, I explained the many reasons why.

Also, I just posted a boat load of information on this thread here:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12853&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson


Frankly, I'm starting to suspect that "Cool," is a bit of a phony. There're one too many inconsistencies in what he claims as his technical knowledge

let's get 1 thing straight.

I have never claimed "TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE". I only shared with you how I trained knife techniques in the past when you asked me if i see "knife techniques are impractical" (SEE "trained"?? i 'm talking about the past).

I remembered my old japanese teacher used to tell us in dojo that We have to train hard because what we were learning will be used on the street to defense ourselves in the future even though we don't want it.

The training I had was REAL and TOUGH. SAFETY was always a number 1 concern in that time.

That was the ONLY "so called technical" I talked about. I did not go into depth any knife techniques here. I ONLY emphasized the way we TRAINED.

I do not see "any TECHNICAL thing" here. I don't understand why you mentioned about "technical".???

one too many contradictions in some of his ideas

can you tell me where I contradict in my posts so that we can know who is "phony" or knows what they are talking about???

--and one too many abrupt breaks from their, "broken English," writing style, one too many shifts from good solid English to that weird, pseudo-Zen syntax that we see so often in the collected works of Kwai Chang Kane...

Sometime, i check my grammar and sometimes I don't. As long as I get my point across and state thing clearly. Using grammar correctly is not important.

this is not a SCHOOL essay. Oh yeah, i see some of you SPELL a word INCORRECTLY but I never bother to point out or criticize them.

This is getting very interesting here. People intend to attack other with everything they got including grammar and spelling.

if you have a gut to mention about the way I write, You, perhaps, should do the same to other.

 

[rmcrobertson]

It's not the spelling or the grammar, about which I couldn't care less. It's the abrupt shifts in "voice," in vocabularly and syntax, which make me wonder.

And as for explaining further, aren't you the guy who's been ragging on a woman named, "norma," who doesn't train yet, but wrote in to ask a couple of questions about her four-year-old's training? Am I mistaken (I'm not), or did you brag about training with far more-important people than anybody she might meet, tell her she was an uneducated moron, and generally write little gems like this:

"your attitude is UNACCEPTABLE. You walked in here and BALKED for no reason and DEMAND this and that.

I answered some of your questions, didn't I ? I am NOT sure why you said this BUT it sure reflects your poor education and character."

Aren't you the guy who just wrote that my friend Angela was full of "balony," {sic}, whose rank you couldn't remember, and that she was too scared to execute techniques?

Don't you also sign off with a little thing that asserts how cool you are, "Cool?"

That fifth or tenth (your description seems to vary) that you attack full force with the knife must be very proud of the way you've applied your martial arts training. What could I possibly write that you would respond to civilly and intelligently?

As I've taken to doing recently, I invite any reader interested to go back and check the "A Question," thread on this same forum.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
It's not the spelling or the grammar, about which I couldn't care less. It's the abrupt shifts in "voice," in vocabularly and syntax, which make me wonder.

I don't see why it is your concern. If today is a beautiful day, i will write BEAUTIFULLY.

it looks like today is not a beautiful day because of your posts. Don't expect anything nice from me EXCEPT hard and cold one.

And as for explaining further, aren't you the guy who's been ragging on a woman named, "norma," who doesn't train yet, but wrote in to ask a couple of questions about her four-year-old's training? Am I mistaken (I'm not), or did you brag about training with far more-important people than anybody she might meet, tell her she was an uneducated moron, and generally write little gems like this:

"your attitude is UNACCEPTABLE. You walked in here and BALKED for no reason and DEMAND this and that.

I answered some of your questions, didn't I ? I am NOT sure why you said this BUT it sure reflects your poor education and character."

Aren't you the guy who just wrote that my friend Angela was full of "balony," {sic}, whose rank you couldn't remember, and that she was too scared to execute techniques?

Don't you also sign off with a little thing that asserts how cool you are, "Cool?"

That fifth or tenth (your description seems to vary) that you attack full force with the knife must be very proud of the way you've applied your martial arts training. What could I possibly write that you would respond to civilly and intelligently?

As I've taken to doing recently, I invite any reader interested to go back and check the "A Question," thread on this same forum.

you obviously looked for my posts and did not read what norma SAID.

If she asked me nicely, i responsed nicely. But she did, don't expect anything nice.

you and I are really different in many way. I will tell you in the next few minutes

1- Norma was the one who told me I will have more privilleges when training with 7 degree black belt.

If you don't know anything about her statement, i suggest you go back and REREAD IT

2- When I trained with OTHER, I never tell other people who I trained with. I am a humble person and I don't consider it is BIG or I need to show up anything.

Whatever you see in "NOrma" thread, I simply responded to her statement.


If you simply read what I posted in her post, why bother to tell me this or that when you don't know what was happening.????

 

[rmcrobertson]

Again, I think that your words--to someone who is in effect a guest, "Norma," about my buddy Angela, to me, and to others--can, and will, speak for themselves.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Again, I think that your words--to someone who is in effect a guest, "Norma," about my buddy Angela, to me, and to others--can, and will, speak for themselves.

a few things to say here

1-If you don't like what other say, you should not be here.

2-Being a guest and being a buddy like Angela will not let you off the hook if you are NOT nice and respectful to other. Specially, if you say something STUPID and SPIN too much..

I allow you to have your opinion about my posts or me, why can't i have mine about you, your friend, Normal??????

you don't like what I write BUT never stop me from writing what I want. Period.

You are a college teacher, aren't you? You should know this better than I do.

 

[Michael Billings]

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[arnisador]

More on vests and knives:
http://www.selfdefenseforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=5929

 

[Gary Crawford]

I think the Kenpo knife techniques are all very good,but so are the ones taught by other styles.I firmly believe that ALL self-defense techniques are just ideas.In a real situation,you may start with one technique,but as the situation changes(because nobody reacts the same),you have to change and adapt with it.Learning as many techniques as possible(no matter where it comes from) will give one enough information to be able to adapt.When it comes down to real life situations,whatever works is the right technique.

 

[MJS]

I think the Kenpo knife techniques are all very good,but so are the ones taught by other styles.I firmly believe that ALL self-defense techniques are just ideas.In a real situation,you may start with one technique,but as the situation changes(because nobody reacts the same),you have to change and adapt with it.Learning as many techniques as possible(no matter where it comes from) will give one enough information to be able to adapt.When it comes down to real life situations,whatever works is the right technique.

Excellent point!!!!

Mike

 

[CoolKempoDude]

If you want to read what *other* think about knife techniques, look for "black belt magazine" April issue which is currently available.

i just finished reading it today at my local library

 

[8253]

Fellow Kenpoists,

I have been thinking a lot about the five knife techniques taught in the Kenpo System; Raining Lance, Thrusting Lance, Entwined Lance, Glancing Lance, and Piercing Lance. I feel that the techniques offer a very valuable base to build from, however I question if they would be a practical defense for a knife attack on today's streets.

How do you feel?

Thank you for your thoughts and comments in advance. Good journey!

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer
UPK Pittsburgh

You only had 5 knife techniques.

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

I have to agree with Joshua Ryder here, I wouldn't bet my life on these techniques. You don't have to be all that proficient with a knife for it to be a deadly weapon, the average person has a BETTER than average shot of messing you up pretty bad simply because of the knifes intrinsic qualities. Their isn't a whole lot of skill necessary to cut someone. What is that Antonio Banderas says in Zorro,"What's so hard, you put the pointy end in the other man." With the knife a little training goes a long way. Learning to back cut (i.e. bait and cut with return motion) changes the game completely.

I don't know as much as I would like to about the knife, but I do know that controlling the elbow is key.

As far as the Knife Techs are concerned these are my opinions.
Entwined Lance- Might be good for a punch but definately not for a knife.

Glancing Lance- I'm not a big fan of the kick, but I tend to use the "elbow break" as a control. You have to disable the arm with the knife.

Piercing Lance- seems good right up until you turn your back on the guy, which is the third move. I don't like to turn my back on an unarmed opponent. Teaching this tech seems a bit irresponsible to me.

Raining Lance- I guess this might not be too bad, that is is if you are sidestepping and using an extended outward. I sure as heck wouldn't put my hands up in a cross block though. Can you say knife in the forearm.

Thrusting Lance- yeah right!!! Why grab the guys wrist but don't make any effort to control the weapon hand. Are you Hercules? You only need one arm to grab and hang on without locking the joint or cancelling a zone, if so you must be a hell of alot stronger than me.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Blindside]

I always thought it was odd that the AK knife curriculum neglected an entire category of knife attacks, namely slashing. Some club techs can be modified, but many don't account for the nature of the knife rather than that of the club.

Just my opinion,

Lamont

 

[Goldendragon7]

I always thought it was odd that the AK knife curriculum neglected an entire category of knife attacks, namely slashing. Some club techs can be modified, but many don't account for the nature of the knife rather than that of the club. Just my opinion, Lamont

The club techinues most often can be used as templates also for the knife.

:asian:

 

[parkerkarate]

I have to totally agree with you there sir. For my last test I went from Entwined Lance into the extension or Obstructing te Strom with a slight modification.

 

[kenpo_cory]

My instructor totally changed all of the knife techniques, which really peeves a lot of people. But he felt the existing techniques didn’t address the return motion or back cut that kenpo yahoo mentioned effectively enough.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Kenpo Yahoo: I agree with you. Some of the knife techniques in Form 6 are more practical than others. I must say that the knife techniques in Form 6 are a tremendous improvement over what I learned (a pre-Form 6 version of Kenpo). I also agree that reverse motion changes the game completely. The knife is the most dangerous weapon to defend against at close quarters. I think the FMA guys have a lot of really good techniques and -- dare I say it -- a little exposure at a seminar or wherever could go a long way.

 

[parkerkarate]

The only new knife technique is Unfirling Lance what is so special about it, all it is, is Unfirling Crane pretty much? Just a question.

 

[MisterMike]

The only new knife technique is Unfirling Lance what is so special about it, all it is, is Unfirling Crane pretty much? Just a question.

Yea, and even as knife techniques go, you better hope he dropped it before running Unfurling Lance to completion. (Pretty much anything after the middle-knuckle)